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Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

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C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #1 by C5ZZ » Sun Aug 08, 2010 11:37 am

My 200 I-6 has a knock in the engine :(
Here is a little history:
-engine from 65 Fairlane 72K miles
-Fairlane was junked due to accident
-old spark plugs were burning clean
-evidence of prior valve job
-oil had no contaminates

That's what I noticed when I bought the engine
9 years ago but never heard it run until the other
day. It did start easy and did run good (didn't run it long)
but has a knocking noise coming from the lower end.

So far I have checked the flywheel area and found no
signs of a problem, I had replaced the AT flywheel with
a good used one. I also checked the starter and it looks ok.
I did prime the oil pump before starting the engine.

Looks like I need to drop the pan and see whats going on.

Please help with some ideas!
Last edited by C5ZZ on Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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Frankenstang
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #2 by Frankenstang » Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:10 pm

One that seems to come up fairly often is 'dent in the pan' making contact where it shouldn't. Guess some folks mistake the oil pan for a jack point :bang:
Good luck!
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine

Post #3 by C5ZZ » Mon Aug 09, 2010 5:25 pm

Thanks for the response, I looked the pan over good
and only see a few dents to the side at the edge, don't
think that they can interfere with anything where they are.
Sure wish that's all it would be.

From what I have read I thought the bottom end
on these were pretty robust.

Any other ideas on what the problem may be?
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

cruzingratiot
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Location: Detroit MI

Re: Knock in engine

Post #4 by cruzingratiot » Tue Aug 10, 2010 10:35 am

is it loud knock ?
does the knock go away when motor is warm ?
if it does usally wrist pin slop

try to narrow down where problem is
( make shure spark plug wires arent stuck to plugs )
than start motor
than carefully
( with motor running ) pull spark plug wire off start at 1 does it go away ?
if not put back on and go through the rest of cylinders

if noise goes away the problem is probally in that cylinder
could be wrist pin slop or bearing or piston slop
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C5ZZ
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #5 by C5ZZ » Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:42 pm

As soon as the engine started I heard the noise but
I didn't run it very long for fear of causing damage.

Didn't hear any noises while it was cranking but once
it started I heard a loud kocking noise, sounded pretty
consistant and didn't vary in loudness. It did run very
well and the exhaust sounded good, even firing, it also
started very easily.

Could it be a spun bearing? I'm thinking the bottom end
is all original.

It almost seems like something is hitting, sure wish it
was just a dented oil pan!

I can certainly start it and pull the plug wires one by one
and see if the noise changes or I'm wondering if I should
pull the pan first and go from there.
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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JackFish
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #6 by JackFish » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:24 pm

Have you got a longish screwdriver, or better yet, a mechanics stethoscope is cheap.
Listen to the fuel pump and see if that's not clattering a bit. From there we could determine if the sound is above or below, or right or left of that point.
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine

Post #7 by C5ZZ » Tue Aug 10, 2010 6:38 pm

I had wondered about the fuel pump, thought I saw
it moving a bit while the engine was running. Put
a different fuel pump on and the noise was still there.
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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Frankenstang
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #8 by Frankenstang » Tue Aug 10, 2010 7:21 pm

JackFish wrote:Have you got a longish screwdriver, or better yet, a mechanics stethoscope is cheap.


+1
A broom handle will work surprisingly well in a pinch (or some other long piece of plastic (pipe), metal or wood, etc.
Just lay it up against any component and other end up against your ear. Have used the broom handle for everything from water pump bearing to cam. Noise will travel through the block some, but it will get louder as you get closer to the source....beware the fan :shock:
Good luck!
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

franko66
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #9 by franko66 » Wed Aug 25, 2010 7:55 pm

I had a similar problem. it was the fuel pump making the noise. I panicked at first but then took a broom handle a narrowed down the area. changed the fuel pump at it went away.

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JackFish
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Re: Knock in engine

Post #10 by JackFish » Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:44 pm

My fuel pump is really noisy. At first I thought it might a loose rocker or something in the valve train.
But if you put your hand on it while it's running you can feel it knock.
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
1978 Ford Fairmont station wagon
Yup, I bought another one.
1996 Chevy Caprice 9C1 (3)
1999 Dodge Ram 2500

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #11 by C5ZZ » Sun Sep 12, 2010 2:49 pm

Update:

I put a oil pressure guage on, have 45psi oil pressure.

Pulled spark plug wires off one at a time while running, no difference in noise.

Ran the engine without the fuel pump, no difference in noise.

Listened under car with engine running, sounds like it's coming
from oil pan area.

Looks like I need to drop the pan and see whats going on :(
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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bubba22349
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Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Sun Sep 12, 2010 8:13 pm

Iis the oil pan caved in or dented bad? :shock: Pictures :hmmm:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #13 by C5ZZ » Tue Sep 14, 2010 4:58 pm

No, the pan looks good, a few small dents on the edges
but they shouldn't interfere with anything.

Is there a baffel in the pan that the crank might be hitting?
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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bubba22349
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Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 6:00 pm

No Have you checked torque coverter and flywheel bolts?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #15 by C5ZZ » Tue Sep 14, 2010 7:23 pm

I replaced the flexplate because the old one had cracks
around the converter nuts so I'm good in that area.
After I first ran it and heard the noise I did check
the flywheel area didn't see any problems, wish it
was that simple.

No baffels in the oil pan?
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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bubba22349
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Re: Knock in engine *UPDATE*

Post #16 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 14, 2010 10:15 pm

No baffels in the oil pan?


No there is nothing that would hit the crank if its not been caved in. :nod:


After I first ran it and heard the noise I did check
the flywheel area didn't see any problems, wish it
was that simple.


It maybe just that simple the bolts may have loosened up again for severial differant reasons :hmmm: would be easy to recheck vs. taking the oil pan off :shock:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

C5ZZ
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Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #17 by C5ZZ » Sat Oct 23, 2010 8:41 pm

Final update, problem solved :D :beer:

I ended up taking off the oil pan to see if I could find
anything out with the knocking noise.
What I found was a scraping mark on the inside of
the oil pan toward the back. There was a small dent
in the oil pan in the area where I found the scrape.
It was the #6 rod that was hitting, very little clearance
even when the pan is straight let alone slightly dented.
Fixed the pan re-installed and no noise, problem solved!!
Thanks to all that helped!!
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

Inlinefanatic1968
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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #18 by Inlinefanatic1968 » Sat Oct 23, 2010 9:41 pm

When the engine is just started, did it knock just then? Did it go away when the engine was warm? Or lessen when it was warm?

C5ZZ
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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #19 by C5ZZ » Sat Oct 23, 2010 11:45 pm

Inlinefanatic1968 wrote:When the engine is just started, did it knock just then? Did it go away when the engine was warm? Or lessen when it was warm?


As soon as it started the knock was there, I didn't run it too long
for fear of more damage. To see what the problem was it wouldn"t
have changed once the engine was warm.
Eventually once the pan wore through in that spot the noise would lessen.
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #20 by fordconvert » Sun Oct 24, 2010 9:47 am

At least till it rubbed through and started to loose oil......
TJ H

Had a 66 mustang coupe, traded in for a 93 convert 2.3.
73 Eldorado convert 8.2 megasquirt, 80 Eldorado 5.7 diesel, 96 Suburban 6.5TD, 05 Magnum 5.7 hemi.

Inlinefanatic1968
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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #21 by Inlinefanatic1968 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 12:04 pm

I've got a knock that increases and decreases with the throttle but comes and goes when the engine is warm. I don't know if this could be the dent in the oil pan, or a lifter, etc.

C5ZZ
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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #22 by C5ZZ » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:33 pm

Looks like a different noise from what you describe.
See if you can determine where it's coming from.
Read above in my post, a lot of good ideas were discussed.
65 Mustang fastback, 200-6
A/C, P.S., P.B., AT.

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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #23 by fordconvert » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:36 pm

Are you sure its not detonation / pinging? They way you can tell is try stepping down harder or easing off a bit. If that seems to make it come and go try a tank of higher octane gas. If that also makes it go away you have detonation. Many possible causes. A common one is too much timing. Too much timing can be from the base timing set to far advanced or an issue with the mechanical or vacuum advance.
TJ H

Had a 66 mustang coupe, traded in for a 93 convert 2.3.
73 Eldorado convert 8.2 megasquirt, 80 Eldorado 5.7 diesel, 96 Suburban 6.5TD, 05 Magnum 5.7 hemi.

Inlinefanatic1968
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Re: Knock in engine *PROBLEM SOLVED*

Post #24 by Inlinefanatic1968 » Sun Oct 24, 2010 10:43 pm

I'll check the plugs and see. Time for them to be replaced anyway. Runs a tank of higher octane and let you know. I'll keep my ears open for where it is coming from.

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