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Wheel fitment issue

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brianproctorla
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Wheel fitment issue

Post #1 by brianproctorla » Sat Jun 18, 2011 11:55 pm

So I bought these MOPAR general lee style wheels to go on my 65 Mustang. I am just finishing up a scarebird front disc swap. Well, I test fitted the wheels and I have a problem with too much play. The disc brake studs are too small for the wheel holes (pattern is correct). The center hole is also too wide for the rotor's register.
I really love these wheels and want to make them work.

1. I can press in bigger studs, correct?
2. If the studs fit tight (new ones), is the center hole width going to be a problem?

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bubba22349
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:54 am

1. Maybe, measure the Mopar studs that fit the wheel you might be able to drill out the hubs to fit them and or find studs that combine the two sizes.

2. Yes, but you can have a ring machined to center them "adapt to fit the two sizes of the hub and wheel center" or use wheel adapters.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

brianproctorla
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Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #3 by brianproctorla » Sun Jun 19, 2011 8:35 am

Thanks! I looked a the back of the wheels. There is another ring of holes (recessed, not drilled through) that has been machined. Does it make sense to have smaller holes drilled in? Will this make the wheels look all jacked-up? I figure if I went to bigger studs, I'd have to machine all four brakes and the rear axles.

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Frankenstang
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #4 by Frankenstang » Sun Jun 19, 2011 12:40 pm

Do you know what type of lug nuts are intended to be used with these wheels? Are these older vintage wheels like Western or such?

Most studs are either 7/16" or 1/2". It's possible these take a shank style lug nut like these...
http://www.mcgard.com/Applications/Auto ... 0ucQ%3d%3d
The walls of the shank take up the 'extra' space in the holes

I'd first check the thread size by trying to fit one of the lug nuts you have to see if it's 7/16" thread which would be OEM for the early fords IIRC, or if it's the larger 1/2" thread. The knurl is the largest part of the lug stud so you may not have to drill out the orig hub to make the slightly larger 1/2" threaded stud fit.
I wonder if the machined surface/circle with additional holes your are seeing on the back is for center caps :?:

Most aftermarket wheels and mags are 'lug centric' not 'hub centric'...mainly because they are made to fit a few different patterns across a fairly broad range of vehicle manufacturers who use a variety of center-hole or hub size...so the center-hole for the hub is often not a tight fit or even snug. You can find or have made 'hub centric' rings as bubba mentioned, but should not be a concern on a non-track car.

Let us know what you find...yep, old studs can be pressed in and new ones can be pressed out.

EDIT: Brian, if you can post some pictures it might help ID what you're seeing...you'll need a third party host for the pictures like Photobucket or a personal website...with Photobucket you can post thumbnails that link to larger pictures and keep the bandwidth demand down for FSP...just an fyi. Good luck :thumbup:
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

brianproctorla
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #5 by brianproctorla » Sun Jun 19, 2011 1:24 pm

Those are all great points. I am going to take some pictures and come back with some better info.

brianproctorla
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #6 by brianproctorla » Sun Jun 19, 2011 2:48 pm

Here are the pictures:
http://s740.photobucket.com/albums/xx42 ... ctor/rims/

I noticed a few things. The lug nuts I have are 1/2 tapered, so I think they will take up the gap around the lug nuts. If they do, I shouldn't worry too much about the center-hole gap correct?

The mounting area of the rims is pretty thick, almost 6/10 of an inch. My rear is a 1957 ford 9 inch and the lugs are pretty short (1 inch). I think no matter what I do, I will definitely need to press in longer studs for the rear axle . In the picture, you can see how far the stud goes into the lug (hand tight) and this is without the rear drum (I am running giant 10 x 2.5 rear drums). I'm wondering that since I am going to go through the time to swap out the rear studs, if I should go wider and longer?

The front rotors have studs that are 1/4 inch longer, so they are probably passable.

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bubba22349
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:12 pm

Pictures helped don't use those lug nuts :nono: . You need to get the right Mag style lug nuts as Frankenstang showed you in his link and you should be good to go. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

brianproctorla
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #8 by brianproctorla » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:19 pm

ahh, I see. these mags take up the entire gap around the lug. with these, I probably won't need longer studs, correct?

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Frankenstang
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #9 by Frankenstang » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:20 pm

Looking at your close ups of the wheels mounted (specificallly where the holes go over the studs)...these rims require shank type lug nuts as pictured with washers in that link above. I would not recommend using standard convex/tapered lug nuts. They'll scar the washer seat and will not be safe as the shank lugs intended to be used here.

You can also get those shank style nuts from Massey out of Oklahoma <<<excellent customer service
or likely from Summit as well (among others)...those pictured above are stainless I think (great strength and longevity but likely not very cheap).

As for the longer studs in the rear...I believe Massey recommends a full 5-7 rotations of the lug nut without bottoming out to ensure safety (note: that's the reason for all the different shaft lengths in the length above)...check with them for specs.

brianproctorla wrote: think no matter what I do, I will definitely need to press in longer studs for the rear axle ...I'm wondering that since I am going to go through the time to swap out the rear studs, if I should go wider and longer?


Sounds like a good plan on the rear...although I don't know much about a '57, 9in rear...very unique and very cool IMO...bubba might be able to offer more there...he seems to have good knowledge of the early classics. I'd stick with stud thread count & diameter you already have. The shank OD on 7/16" and 1/2" are the same.
Good pics and Good luck!

PS if you want to post thumbnails in the future (just for a nice preview effect)...next time you're on Photobucket, when you roll over the pics under an album it lists the available codes for posting...somewhere there should be a 'options' for codes displayed and you can select the option to show the thumbnail code...just additonal fyi...but your current method works just fine...always better when you can see some pics if you ask me :wink:
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

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Frankenstang
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #10 by Frankenstang » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:23 pm

brianproctorla wrote:ahh, I see. these mags take up the entire gap around the lug. with these, I probably won't need longer studs, correct?


Yes the lug nuts should make up the entire gap...I still recommend checking with Massey or searching web on minimum req'd rotations of lug nut...that's the trick with shank styles...enough stud to get req'd rotations and right length shank nut not to bottom out. Good luck!
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

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bubba22349
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Re: Wheel fitment issue

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Sun Jun 19, 2011 3:50 pm

Frankenstang got you covered. Only things I can add is that I have run mags on the 57-59 9 inch rears with the stock studs. But to make it easy so all the lugs and flat washers are the same lengths than it might be worth it to change the rears to match the length of the fronts. Don't know if you plan on racing your car, some faster classes (drags) require even longer studs and open ends on the lugs so they can see the thread engagement. Good luck
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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