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Toe-in problem

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brianproctorla
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Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Toe-in problem

Post #1 by brianproctorla » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:54 pm

I am having a problem with severe toe-in on both my front wheels of my 65 mustang.
I have just finished up a scare-bird disc swap on 67 drum spindles.
It has been shelby dropped with az mustang shop adjustible lower control arms and global west adjustable struts.
It also has baer 1967 tracker outer tie-rods and moog 1965 mustang inners.

Any idea what could be causing this?
I came across this post:
"Not having enough toe out is a fairly common problem when one uses 67-73 spindles, drum or disc or even Granada type, on a 65-66 Mustang. The 67-73 spindle's steering arm geometry is different in all three dimensions. It resides about 3/8" more inboard compared to 65-66. This gives the steering a toe in bias that sometimes can not be adjusted out without resorting to using a shorter adjuster sleeve and/or cutting off a few threads from one or both of the inner and outer tie rods.

A better solution is to use 65-66 compatible drum spindles or 65-66 specific Granada disc type spindles. "

I am also thinking that I may have to adjust the length of the lower control arm.
My tie-rods are adjusted as far in as possible.
I am not sure where to begin.

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Frankenstang
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Re: Toe-in problem

Post #2 by Frankenstang » Thu Aug 11, 2011 1:00 pm

You might want to ask this be moved to the suspension section to gain more views/responses.

Am I reading correctly, you have 'too much toe-in'?

Image

Would shorter tie rods be the answer or longer? That post you found makes sense if toe-out is the problem...but maybe I'm not following correctly.

If too much 'toe-out' is the problem then I would think cutting a little length off the 'cheaper' tie rod ends (inner or outer..not sure how price compares from Tracker to Moog, in case you mess up...and/or if you would have to die some extra threads onto the tie rod ends after cutting), would be the best answer. Not sure how a shorter sleeve would improve 'toe-out' if the tie rod ends bottom out at the same location in the sleeve. Hope this make sense, but I'm a little corn-fused as to your exact issue (too much in or out). Good luck :thumbup:
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

brianproctorla
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Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Toe-in problem

Post #3 by brianproctorla » Thu Aug 11, 2011 2:03 pm

I was thinking the same thing. I might have to shorten the inner tie- rods unless I have something else installed wrong. The problem is with toe-in. The lower control arms can be lengthened and are on a swivel. Wondering if they might be the culprit

Thad
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Re: Toe-in problem

Post #4 by Thad » Thu Aug 11, 2011 3:33 pm

IIRC, don't have my Falcon to look at, the drag link and tie rods are behind the spindles so shortening the the tie rod would decrease the toe-in. If not possible by adjustment then cutting re-threading would be necessary. Would mock up with adjuster nut off to get an idea how much. Cutting and re-threading should, if possible be done the the right hand threaded tie rods so you don't have to source a left hand thread die. Also you just many be able to look at other Ford tie rods that would be the right length.
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and there are those who do more than dream. ><> = +

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Frankenstang
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Re: Toe-in problem

Post #5 by Frankenstang » Thu Aug 11, 2011 4:46 pm

Thad wrote:IIRC, don't have my Falcon to look at, the drag link and tie rods are behind the spindles so shortening the the tie rod would decrease the toe-in.


Doh! Now it makes sense :oopsie:

Thad wrote:Cutting and re-threading should, if possible be done the the right hand threaded tie rods so you don't have to source a left hand thread die.


That's a great tip too :thumbup:
-Robert
Image
66 Mustang 200+30, 67 BH, 89 4cyl T-5, 71 Comet 4 lug 8" 3:1rear, 85 T-Bird v6 DS, 10 Mallory Unilite Hyfire VI-A, 08 Vaporizer 1bbl, 68 Cougar 2" exhuast,65 pipe, 74 Mav man disc m/c & Scarebird(87 Stanza rotors 89 Cavalier calipers), 73 Datsun 240z Appliance Wire Mags, 03 Mustang Leather seats
All in one car! Johnny Cash would be proud...I got it One Piece at a Time

brianproctorla
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Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Toe-in problem

Post #6 by brianproctorla » Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:14 pm

I would like to get my hands on this:
"A new Master Chassis Parts Catalog published by Federal Mogul and TRW in 1996 covering in great detail their their line of chassis and suspension parts for US and foreign cars and light trucks from 1960 (some earlier), listing applications by model and year as well as a buyers guide listing parts by their number showing the models each fits and progressive size charts for tie rod ends and bushings. Excellent condition. 1071 pages. A valuable resource for the serious collector, restorer or vendor. Catalog number is X-4000. Shipping will be by media mail. No charge for packing. Click on photo to enlarge."

that way, perhaps I can find a shorter tie-rod. I would hate to machine it, only to do this again if I replace the tie-rod.
I am going to check that the lower control arm is not pointed forward. The tie rod pivots, and with adjustable control arms, it is possible I have the lower arms cranked forward.

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bubba22349
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Re: Toe-in problem

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:11 pm

The 67-73 spindle's steering arm geometry is different in all three dimensions. It resides about 3/8" more inboard compared to 65-66.



Ford made this change to the 67 cars in engine compartment and frame they were widened so that the big block 390 & 427 FE V8's would fit in them.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

brianproctorla
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Posts: 156
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 9:18 pm

Re: Toe-in problem

Post #8 by brianproctorla » Sat Sep 03, 2011 6:00 pm

I am thinking that the problem is either the shelby quick steer, the 67 spindles, or me being an idiot (probably a mix off all 3).
I have decided to rethink all of my assumptions to eliminate the idiot factor.

I am going to post my progress, with pics, on this discussion:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=66290

I hope that you all continue to provide the expert assistance, and at the end, this will be a pretty good resource for idiot proofing the V8 suspension upgrade.

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