1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

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HondaSL
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1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #1 by HondaSL » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:52 pm

Hi I am a new member, longtime mustang enthusiast. I have owned a 1966 Mustang 6-cylinder 200 car since 1998 & have always worked on it myself with grandpa. We have always tuned the car by ear since that would produce the best response when test driving around the block. I am looking for some tuning specs & confirmation on process since the inter webs seem to be all over the place & the manual bias the V8 much more or speak to the 240 6-cylinder.

I have a stock 1-barrel carb without Spark Control Vacuum. And I’m not sure which style of distributer i have, but i did instal the petronix points conversion upgrade back in the late 90’s & it has worked great (note: the vacuum advance’s vacuum line was piped into a T-fitting I had inline on the PCV hose that plugs into the heater bypass spacer/manifold vacuum.)

1) I just replaced the vacuum advance hardline & am attempting to relocate the plug-in location into the carb & remove the PCV connection. I do not know if i will have the issue of no vacuum advance that I am reading about randomly based on this. Any thoughts?


2) Idle Speed for Automatic? It is currently at 500rpm in Park, but it seems a bit low. I read a range from 450-800 rpm set in Drive with parking brake set. What is ideal, going low in the 450-550 range or go middle around 650rpm?

3) Timing - for automatic transmission, Ive read 12º BTDC is ideal, but also hear the engine like the 7-9 range also on idle. (Ive also read the pulley likes to slip & mislead with timing numbers slightly off from the actual time)

4) Timing advance - using a timing light, do i scroll the light’s advance dial to a certain number? or what am i looking for to confirm it is activating at any certain rpm range? Ive read 3500 rpm is when it should engage.


ALSO, I plan to use the light & my ear to set the distributer & the carb first, but then use the VACUUM TESTING techniques. Can anyone confirm that I have the right idea here. Mainly, does the Vacuum test gauge go in the same spot when testing both timing and carb mix ratio?

A) Setting the Distributer timing with Vacuum gauge. (after warming up engine)
First disconnect the distributer’s vacuum hardline at the carb. Then plug the carb’s hole with a 3/8” brass fitting plug. the other end of the hardline can stay open.
Second, unplug the hose/PCV valve from the valve cover and stick the test gauge into the PCV valve. This seal should then give me a value on the Vacuum Test Gauge as 19-21 inches or 18-25 hg if all is good.
Turn the dizzy until I find the highest vacuum level.
Back its off 1 inch of vacuum and torque the dizzy down.
Blip the throttle and wait a minute. If it seems to be running good, move on to the Carb adjustment.

b) Setting the Carb mixture screw with Vacuum gauge,
After the distributer timing is set, remove the brass fitting plug in carb & reattach the vacuum hardline from the distributer so normal operation. Also attach the air filer housing to carb.
Keep the Vacuum Test Gauge in the PCV valve.
Place car in Drive with parking brake set, & with Alternator under load (turning on high beam headlights, A/C fan to max speed, turn signals for extra flare) {Setting the carb to ballpark range with transmission in Neutral prior to this step in Drive gear if needed}
Adjust Carb’s mixture screw until the gauge reads it’s highest output and holds steady best. (looking for same values as timing process = 19-21 inches or 18-25 hg)
During this testing, I should be keeping the engine rpm at a consistent level for an accurate vacuum reading, which will vary as i move the mixture screw. Ehh guessing it should be 500-550 rpm?
After finding the highest vacuum test reading, Blip the throttle and wait a for engine to smooth to idle.
Set engine idle speed to lowest running rpm that doesn’t stutter & miss.
Screw in the Idle Mixture Screw 1/4 turn inwards to help lean it out, since the car may be running rich as heck.

After setting both, test drive around the hood for a bit & if the engine is pinging, reduce the timing another 1 inch on the vacuum of 1º on the timing light. Then reset the carb idle mixture & idle speed with vacuum gauge technique. Repeat until the car races around the neighborhood like a peppy pony.
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 12:48 am

:hmmm: Wow the above tuning procedure is overly complicated, though it might work for you.

Some of the below specs will depend on if your car has the California Emissions or not, also if the carb has a solinod too. With California Emissions the Base timing and Idle RPM are different, also both the Distribitor and Carberator would be different from those used with the older LOM type. Some pictures of the engine, carb, and Distribitor would be of help IDing all this. Having a mismatched carb and Distribitor is going to cause drivability problems too.

Stock 1966 Ford Mustang with 200 six / C4 Auto Trans (Federal 49 state) tune up specs.
Autolite BF-82 plugs gapped at .034.
Basic Points setting gaped at .025 for best performance your looking for a Dwell setting of 39 Degrees.
Base timing is set to 12 Degrees BTDC.
Idle RPM 525 with the auto trans in Drive, parking brake set, AC off
Fuel pressure is 4.5 PSI

To get most accurate tune up I always use of a tach / dwel meter especially if your Distribitor is still using the stock type points, and also a timing light. This is the procedure I have found works the best and quickly for me.

A good tune up follows this order of work
1. Set the plug gap .034.
2. Set the points basic setting to .025 after its runing set the Dwell Angel to factory spec of 39 degrees. This step is not needed with the Pertronix system.
3. Now you need to set the timing to 12 degrees base timing vacuum line disconnected and plugged. You can also try more base timing to as much as 16 degrees but it if there is any hint of pinging when you try it then back off until it stops. Reinstall the vaccum line to the Distribitor.
4. Set the Idle mixture to its Lean Best Idle.
5. Set the curb idle speed to 525 RPM with trans in drive.
6.Repeat 4. & 5. To see if it improves anymore.
You might also test your coils output with the volt / ohm meter as well as the plug wires and cap for their resistance readings that they are in spec.

Additionally while doing this tune up the engine needs everthing hooked up just as it will be operated! This includes having the Air Cleaner installed and the PCV hooked up. If you want to use a Vaccum gauge then hook that up to the Intake Log below the Carb. Good luck in your tuning :thumbup: :nod: edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #3 by HondaSL » Fri Mar 16, 2018 1:30 am

Here are some carb pics. I can take some distributer & more pics on weekend. The 'stand used to be my daily. When I originally bought it in '97 it had a manual choke carb of some type on it that when i sent it to get rebuilt, this auto-choke version came back instead & the car ran much better. Not sure what carb was original since i was 3rd owner at least & bummer if i've been missing out on the performance capabilities of my 6 with a mismatch setup this entire time! =(

I believe it was San Jose car if my memory serves me right from vin #s, never saw any evidence of the emissions stuff though, & i have no clue what i would notice to determine if it was blessed with emissions back in the days. Im all ears if there would be any bolt holes to look for or special parts.

Thanks much for the info on the tune-up! Where would the carb solenoid be?
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:27 am

:hmmm: with a little time you can know the beginning history of your car. Look for the door ID / Warrantee plate (on drivers side) for all its info. This will tell you were and when it was built, and the DSO code will tell you what market the car was built for, as well as color, upholstery, trans, axle gearing etc.

Finding the engine casting numbers and date code can tell you if still have the same year engine it was built with.

If your car was built for some of the California markets like southern calif. it would have had the Thermactor Exhaust system this pumped extra air into the exhaust ports for lower emissions. The point of this is this why there are so many different tune up specs.

However I don’t see any of these type emissions parts on your car now, plus California exempted the older models up to 1975 so you don’t need to worry about any of those missing parts or the connecting tune up info.

The solenoid would have been used for the carbs throttle lever as setting up a faster idle when the AC is turned on. The carb you have looks like a good one to use since it doesn’t have the SCV. If it’s in good condition then I would work on getting the matching distributor that will give give you very good performance.

You have a few choices like for an example the later point type distributor or the much better still the later model DuraSpark II system
(Plus many others) which will unlock all the missing power of your engine if you happen to have the old Load O Matic type distributor and even more so, good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #5 by HondaSL » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:08 pm

Took a few pics of my car. I had a hard time finding the engine number. Where does this stamp live?

On my engine, I saw a stamp plate area (tough to read) facing upwards near the distributer & a brass plate near the transmission bell housing area.

Door plate = doesn't exist

Engine block number on face plate near distributer cap = 5A14A (not sure if there would be more visible since it's pretty weathered)
Engine number near bell housing on driver's side = 69190

Frame Vin = 6R07T****** Thus a San Jose car, 200cid 1v I6.

Steering tag = HCC AW 5M17B

Carb tag (since removed & a different carb from current equipped) = D0PF 9510 K A529 1 0040

Headers = C7DE-6090-C

Regarding the distributer match, I have read 'solid shaft' describing the shape of what I have. What do you think regarding the compatibility of advance mismatch issues.

I have also had this equipped & operational for many years as is (minus the vacuum line routing into the vacuum manifold/PCV hose rather than going in-line to the carb's passenger side port. (I think i am missing a brass sleeve to help seal against the pip flare after looking at other carb pics).

Thanks again for all the help & wisdom
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #6 by wsa111 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 7:06 pm

I see a loadamatic distributor, but whats the deal with the carb?? Is the spark control valve missing or is the carb a later unit with just ported vacuum??
If you look into the cavity where a SCV would go are there any open ports in there???
The SCV distributor is not the best performing unit, but what makes it worse is the vacuum source you have connected to it.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #7 by HondaSL » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:22 pm

On this carb there is no Spark Control Valve. Looking into it's hole, there are no threads nor does the hole go through the carb body.

Yes to the ported vacuum. I have blown air into it & noticed it does go into the carb body but not had a chance to test the vacuum level it pulls at idle or changes at speed (if any). Note: I actually had this hole open for the last 15 years when the vacuum advance line was plugged into the PCV hose. Luckily it was clayed darn near shut with ancient gunky sludge. I actually only rerouted the hardline because when i purchased the new one, it came with a fitting which that was the only option-to-fit.

Plugged in how it is currently, I have only driving it about 10 miles at slow pace after & it did not feel very peppy at all after changing the accelerator pump. But the car has been sitting a couple years basically with quarterly start-up/idles.
Im gonna change the dashpot side diaphragm too & tune the car soon. After figuring out the specs to do so.

Am i just asking for trouble using the ported vacuum to plug in the hardline? Should this instead be going into the PCV hose again?

Id like to not buy a new dizzy if possible since a mediocre paint job in cali is going to break the bank & then some... What is the correct thing to do regarding routing the lines & correct distributer-carb pairing to make it run well (not restored).

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #8 by wsa111 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:47 pm

HondaSL wrote:On this carb there is no Spark Control Valve. Looking into it's hole, there are no threads nor does the hole go through the carb body.

Yes to the ported vacuum. I have blown air into it & noticed it does go into the carb body but not had a chance to test the vacuum level it pulls at idle or changes at speed (if any). Note: I actually had this hole open for the last 15 years when the vacuum advance line was plugged into the PCV hose. Luckily it was clayed darn near shut with ancient gunky sludge. I actually only rerouted the hardline because when i purchased the new one, it came with a fitting which that was the only option-to-fit.

Plugged in how it is currently, I have only driving it about 10 miles at slow pace after & it did not feel very peppy at all after changing the accelerator pump. But the car has been sitting a couple years basically with quarterly start-up/idles.
Im gonna change the dashpot side diaphragm too & tune the car soon. After figuring out the specs to do so.

Am i just asking for trouble using the ported vacuum to plug in the hardline? Should this instead be going into the PCV hose again?

Id like to not buy a new dizzy if possible since a mediocre paint job in cali is going to break the bank & then some... What is the correct thing to do regarding routing the lines & correct distributer-carb pairing to make it run well (not restored).

Your loadamatic will never perform with the carb you have.
You need a DS11 or a HEI which has centrifugal advance & vacuum advance.
If interested look at my options in the small six for sale section. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #9 by HondaSL » Wed Mar 21, 2018 2:39 am

Im curious about these options so far, but don't really understand why they are needed. Im guessing my car isn't running ideal even at its best. I tune it at idle, but once at high rpm, does my current system fail me? Ive been reading on possible switches to the dizzy to make this run better. Does this mean more hp? or just smoother ride & better mpg?

Whats the difference between using these below? Or is this like a 2% improvement sort of upgrade:

-New or Rebuild dizzy for the gorgeous 1978 Ford Fairmont 3.3 6-cylinder 1V engine stock setup from the local parts store. Not sure if this is a plug-n-play dizzy or if i'd need more parts to make it work. (do chevy parts interchange?)

-Duraspark II or MSD

- HEI setup , What is this?

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #10 by B RON CO » Wed Mar 21, 2018 12:28 pm

Hi, You have an early load- o- matic distributor, 1950s style mixed with a later model carb. The later "modern" distributors use vacuum and mechanical advance. Bill is a distributor expert and can dial in the perfect distributor. My guess is the original carb was replaced a long time ago by someone who didn't know any better, and just used a Ford carb that fit. You can get your engine to run better with the correct combination of parts. Get the Ford Falcon Performance Handbook and learn about your Ford 6 ignition and everything else. Also if you have engine and performance threads, go to the Small block section at the top of the page. Many guys rarely look down deep in these sub sections. Good luck
B RON CO. Still workin' on it!

1933 Ford Pickup - 59A Flathead V8
1966 Ford Bronco - U14 - 170/200 Straight 6
1966 Ford Mustang - 289 V8

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 1:50 pm

HondaSL wrote:Im curious about these options so far, but don't really understand why they are needed. Im guessing my car isn't running ideal even at its best. I tune it at idle, but once at high rpm, does my current system fail me? Ive been reading on possible switches to the dizzy to make this run better. Does this mean more hp? or just smoother ride & better mpg?

Whats the difference between using these below? Or is this like a 2% improvement sort of upgrade:

-New or Rebuild dizzy for the gorgeous 1978 Ford Fairmont 3.3 6-cylinder 1V engine stock setup from the local parts store. Not sure if this is a plug-n-play dizzy or if i'd need more parts to make it work. (do chevy parts interchange?)

-Duraspark II or MSD

- HEI setup , What is this?


On your previous question ID'ing some of the engines parts I was able to make out what looks like a C7DE casting / design number on the top of the heads intake log behind the carb mounting. This togeather with the C7DE number you found on the exhaust manifold means that the top end parts are from at least a 1967 vintage engine. Your short block numbers will tell the rest of the story, they will be on the same side of the block in front of the starter. The exact year of your parts can also be determined too if you can find the date codes. These look like a small plate with a screw on each end in the casting it will have a number a letter and another number or two.

X3 yes you do have the Old LoadOMatic Distribitor and as I was trying to tell you before this is a miss match of parts that seems to happen on far too many of these cars as parts get swapped out over time. Your choices are to find an older model carburator with SCV to restore it to the older performance specs of when it was built, or continue moving forward towards even better performance by swapping out the old LOM Distributor to a newer better one. In my opinion this last way is the only way to go for any kind of driver type car your going to use regularly and want to enjoy driving. So the only possable exception to this is for a really nice all numbers matching Concurs type show car that's needing to be detailed back to a full factory restoration.

Yes that 1978 Fairmont Distribitor would be a great start towards getting back your lost performance and more. Yes for sure it can be a Plug N Play dizzy though it dose need a few more parts to make it all work. For a stock DS II system it needs these matched parts: the Distribitor, the coil, stock wire harness, and the ICM, these all plug togeather then you only need to run 1 new wire from the ignistion switch to power it, this is one of the first mods I do to all my old Fords it is well worth the effort. Do brand X parts interchange, well not really, however some people do use the HEI control module successfully with the DS II Distribitors, this requires a custom wire harness and heat sink, Bill (made some of these too)

An HEI Distribitor is the system that GM designed for use on their engines stating in about 1975 to meet the Ca. & Federal emission requirements. There are a number of cheap and expensive copy's being made for many other engines beside the GM's many people do like them because they are a 1 wire hookup. They won't fit every Ford Six combo though and it all depends if you have the room to clear your assesories, Bill (in above post) has a HEI system that he developed for our Ford Six'es.

Lastly is it a 2% sort of upgrade, this would be hard to say not seeing your engines performance first hand. Yet I am confident that in your case considering the mismatch of parts that you now have, that it would likely be much more! Speaking only on the DS II upgrade as that is the only system I have ever used on a Ford, but I have also worked on many stock GM HEI systems and so a good HEI should be comparable too. The benafit's are: the staring of the engine is faster, engine performance is much better, tune ups last much longer, and the fuel economy is also much better. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #12 by wsa111 » Wed Mar 21, 2018 10:15 pm

Your choice, a better looking car with fresh paint or a much better running engine.
Since you have the later model carb you would bring your engine alive with a decent distributor.
If you are mechanically gifted a DS11 recurved for you engine would be a plus. With this you will need a module & a better coil plus a full 12V to the combo.
Since you do not have P/S you could benefit with my HEI again recurved for your engine. This is a one wire 12V hookup. It also has a tach terminal. You will need no module, coil just a good set of spiral would plug wires.
If interested in pursuing check my post in the small six for sale section of this forum.
At present I have one blue cap HEI left. Bill
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, HEI dist. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #13 by HondaSL » Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:30 pm

Thank you for all the help guys & Bill! The DuraSpark2 sounds like a bit more of a PIA to set up. Im figure it would be ideal to replace the spark plugs & ignition coil with any upgrade, but dang the DS2 wireharness is $$ :wow: $$$$$.

I was really interested in this 'DUI' Davis Unified Ignition dizzy I saw online while reading about the DSpark2. It kinda struck me as an all-in-1 unit which mirrors the DSpark2. Would this assumption be correct? Is there a diff between either setup? I was really liking the easy 1-wire instal on the DUI having the computer part integrated into the cap.

I am mechanically inclined, however I'm afraid that if i start moving the wires around under dash, I'm gonna need a anew harness from breaking fragile wires (but talking about a bank-breaker loom.. jeez) Bill, your HEI setup also sounds easy to set-up, but is this a better or worse upgrade from the DUI/DS2? I know its different, but don't quite understand the why behind either of the 3 set-ups. This upgrade seems very worth it for the long-run & short sprints!

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Re: 1966 Stang 200 cid - Vacuum Gauge Timing & Carb Mix Screw Setting Help/How, General Tuning Specs

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:42 pm

The budget way to do a DSII is to go to your local wrecking yard (like PickAPart) get the Distribitor the stock wire harness, coil, and the ICM shouldn't be very much, but even less when they have a 1/2 price sale. The harvested stock DSII system is an all plug n play swap with those factory parts. Then you will only need to run one to two new wires its less than a half day job to install it and then enjoy. If thats still too much work for you then you can look for a 1968 to 74 200 point Distribitor and install its a direct swap using all the original wiring and you might even be able to reuse your Pertronix, check the Distribitor numbers to see. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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