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Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

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Firepower354
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Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Flint, MI
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Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #1 by Firepower354 » Sun Feb 15, 2015 4:55 pm

I've been wanting an even bigger six, when I found this local.
Bottom end and valve gear is great. Sleeves (replaceable) and likely slugs are shot. A couple valve stems are sticky.
If the pistons can't be cleaned-up and coated back to stock size by Swain Tech, I could leave the sleeves out and run 4.5-4.6" pistons instead of the 4.375 stockers.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/ ... a32899522a

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https://fbcdn-sphotos-b-a.akamaihd.net/ ... 18017ec24b

https://scontent-ord.xx.fbcdn.net/hphot ... e=555D2ED9
It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.


Lazy JW
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Location: Careywood, Idaho

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #3 by Lazy JW » Sat May 02, 2015 8:45 am

I like it! :D 8) :thumbup:
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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flatford6
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Location: Gilroy, California

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #4 by flatford6 » Sun May 24, 2015 1:03 am

An even bigger International six in the same engine family: The RD 501. 4.5" bore without sleeves and 5.25" stroke with four barrel carb. I had one in an old IH ten wheeler and it had a significant power increase over the RD 450 it replaced. Rated horsepower at 3000; 215 from 1966 to 1972. Engine weight very heavy, estimated 1000 lb.

Firepower354
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Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Flint, MI
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Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #5 by Firepower354 » Sun May 24, 2015 9:56 pm

flatford6 wrote:An even bigger International six in the same engine family: The RD 501. 4.5" bore without sleeves and 5.25" stroke with four barrel carb. I had one in an old IH ten wheeler and it had a significant power increase over the RD 450 it replaced. Rated horsepower at 3000; 215 from 1966 to 1972. Engine weight very heavy, estimated 1000 lb.



Yep. Old-timers seem to mention the rarity and fragile nature of the 501, plus the more difficult rebuild, unique timing set.

A couple ideas I'm mulling:
4.600 BBC pistons on custom rods, and offset grind the crank to BBC journal size and 5.5" stroke, I'll have a much lighter rotating assembly and 548 cubic inches.

501 pistons in the de-linered block, 477 cubes. Rare slugs. 534 pistons may be a decent option, still spendy.

Re-sleeve and use my old slugs, after blast and coatings, turbo with a Cat unit I have.

The manifold pad seems to be able to be machined for a 4v, but there are some nice flats on the runners to add a couple more 2v carbs and keep the looks, or build a simple tubing one, or pick up a 2x1 Ellis from eBay. They pop up often but seem to be mostly for the smaller port head. Mine has the 2.25 intake valves and 2" ports.

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=5601DFD0

https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=55FB2638

Mine is like this. I thought of ditching stock intake, looping the exhaust outlets together, running turbo on the former heat-riser pad, building a logifold
https://scontent-iad3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hp ... e=560433A1
It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

Firepower354
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Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Flint, MI
Contact:

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #6 by Firepower354 » Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:00 pm

Sitting next to a 292, ready to get sonic tested, as soon as I get help loading the big gals.

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It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

sdiesel
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Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #7 by sdiesel » Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:26 am

does any one know how this turned out?
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

Firepower354
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Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Flint, MI
Contact:

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #8 by Firepower354 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:05 am

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It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

sdiesel
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Posts: 1328
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #9 by sdiesel » Thu Sep 10, 2020 10:47 am

Firepower... Has there been much progress on this wonderful project?
I do know of custom parts, that making the rotating mass much much lighter enables automotive like acceleration...
I'm curious about something.

Weighing all of the bits you have removed from the block, manifolds generator dist. Etc what that total would be.
I suspect that with replacement parts including custom manifolds, the final weight mitt be in the 700 pound range. For a complete engine. Stripping any and all weighty parts
Waterpump
generator
manifolds
Pushrods
Lifters
Pistons and rods
Shaving the crank
Including dynamic balance)
dumping the flywheel in favor of a flex plate and an Allison 2000, or unlocked 1000 transmission...
and replacing them with modern parts as it seems you are up to in this project;
Expensive diet I realize, but 700 pounds puts it in big block territory, not unmanageable at all.

Further, modern tech making components lighter its not impossible to see this engine repurposed, to use a modern term....
The sole real obstacle is that massive harmonic balancer, pulley arrangement ,that in itself must weigh 50 pounds. It has a shout so long that install would be tricky. In a modern pickup.

Using an electric water pump system, one could dispense with the water pump pulley leaving alternator, a/c pump,and power steering or hydraulic pump and re-imagine (another modern word) , this engine as a pulling mule in a one ton pickup. With a proper ground cam, the efficiency of this monster might approach modern big block numbers, especially with a turbo, which would be a frightening thing on this engine. Torque numbers would be ......I can't even guess a number, and all below 4000 rpm.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

Firepower354
Registered User
Posts: 275
Joined: Sun Jun 19, 2011 10:35 pm
Location: Flint, MI
Contact:

Re: Super Red Diamond RD450 gasser

Post #10 by Firepower354 » Sat Sep 12, 2020 1:08 pm

sdiesel wrote:Firepower... Has there been much progress on this wonderful project?
I do know of custom parts, that making the rotating mass much much lighter enables automotive like acceleration...
I'm curious about something.

Weighing all of the bits you have removed from the block, manifolds generator dist. Etc what that total would be.
I suspect that with replacement parts including custom manifolds, the final weight mitt be in the 700 pound range. For a complete engine. Stripping any and all weighty parts
Waterpump
generator
manifolds
Pushrods
Lifters
Pistons and rods
Shaving the crank
Including dynamic balance)
dumping the flywheel in favor of a flex plate and an Allison 2000, or unlocked 1000 transmission...
and replacing them with modern parts as it seems you are up to in this project;
Expensive diet I realize, but 700 pounds puts it in big block territory, not unmanageable at all.

Further, modern tech making components lighter its not impossible to see this engine repurposed, to use a modern term....
The sole real obstacle is that massive harmonic balancer, pulley arrangement ,that in itself must weigh 50 pounds. It has a shout so long that install would be tricky. In a modern pickup.

Using an electric water pump system, one could dispense with the water pump pulley leaving alternator, a/c pump,and power steering or hydraulic pump and re-imagine (another modern word) , this engine as a pulling mule in a one ton pickup. With a proper ground cam, the efficiency of this monster might approach modern big block numbers, especially with a turbo, which would be a frightening thing on this engine. Torque numbers would be ......I can't even guess a number, and all below 4000 rpm.


Nice timing! I just visited her in storage, when I grabbed my 8.1 Chev to bring home.

Well... Sadly, not a lot of progress. Since the project began, I've had a few issues with health and wealth, an unscheduled change of address to a substantially downgraded work space, ad nauseam.

But, I did press out the sleeves, got her sonic tested, and bought a couple sets of slugs. First ones were Ford 534's but I couldn't justify swinging that much mass around. So, I grabbed a set of 4.530 JE flat tops previously enjoyed in some BBC. Light, modern, priced right, pretty nice pieces. I may let my buddy fill in the single valve relief, but between flat, zero deck, dusting off the head deck, and added cubes, it should be plenty squeezy

I got fresh NOS 2.250 intake valves (7/16 stem), but another case of more mass than I see as needed. SS 2.350/1.900 blanks with 11/32 stems, slipping through bronze guides, isn't a high-dollar upgrade, and I can cut keeper grooves and add lash caps. I have a couple sets of PAC triple springs that I should be able to throw out the inner couple rows and still tame .750 lift through 1.9 roller rockers. Mushroom tappets aren't too awfully heavy. I'll get them refaced when Delta puts some bigger bumps on the cam.

I had a little trouble getting a straight answer about how much swing the bottom has clearance for, so I'll pester again this winter. I'd had second or third thoughts about 2.20 vs 2.375 journals, and welded vs just offset grind on the crank. She'd go 532ci with BBC rods and no welding 5.50 stroke. I'm not sure that doubling the crank budget to get 575ci makes sense, but what really does? I need to run the crank down to the grindhouse and get their input. Then I'll know how long of rods to start whittling, or saving for. Fortunately, the Farmall pullers are running similar pieces, even if priced for raggedy coveralls with gold in the pockets.

There are DT466 (they may share some DNA) balancers with pulleys, that hug the front pretty tight. I figure the crankster will have insight on that too.

I'll have to recheck, but I think there's a tractor front cover that fits, that has a rear-facing accessory drive, so I could run a jackshaft on the quiet side of the block. Water pump, oil pump, alternator, hydroboost, and such. I'm not even against driving off the rear of the crank, via chain or belt, to the adapter plate and forward.

Even with heroic efforts, she's a lass of immense proportions. In a "modern" pickup, the height and length would be tough. If of a mind for a massive gasser, I'd begrudgingly admit a poked & stroked 6.7 Cummins with some spark plugs in the injector holes, makes a lot more sense. I figure Big Red belongs in something more 50's-esque-ish, anyhows.

Those sexy exhaust manifolds aren't all that heavy, so I'm leaning towards keeping them. Intake will hold 3 2v Rochesters along it, or I can tube something up. I have an Ellis, but no real love for how it doesn't tie in with the exhaust. May cut the bottom and weld it to a 4.9 EFI lower, or refit the runners for the 292 I'm doing for my Pops. Only having 3 intake ports, even if 2-1/4 round, likely hurts tuning potential?

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It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

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