packard Super 8 problems

MPGmustang

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okay i know that it's a six forum but an orphan is an orphan

me and my dad are stumped on what's wrong with the newly rebuilt i8 engine,

history,
spun a bearing and had basko rebuild engine... cam timing was way off when it returned, we have since fixed it..
the timing mark was way off, again we have made a new correct mark on the HB for TDC on #1...
currently it now runs, but with this horible tick... it almost sounds deisel like tick...
it over heated recently on a 15mile drive, backfiring last mile constently when it was hot
now it runs but back to it's horrible ticking, but with a few backfires it gets worse with the gas peddle
it has hydrolic lifters so we don't understand the ticking

now what can we do?
i have looked at the cap and rotor they are 'shaving' into each other... where can we replace these or what can we replace them with?
anytips in tunning this monster i8 (356ci)

Thanks
Richard and Dad
 
Basko. Grrrr. I've been less than thrilled with them myself.

Have you run anything like Marvel Mystery Oil in there? If something is sticking, it might help loosen it up.

One thing I've done in the past is to get an extra valve cover and cut the top off of it. Install it in place of your regular valvle cover and run the engine. Maybe you can see or hear where the noise is coming from.

I would be concerned about a bent pushrod at this point which could be caused by a sticking lifter. However, I'm not a mechanic. If you want the name of a good local mechanic that works out of his home, send me a PM.
 
if onnly it was that easy, it's a flathead i8... we did have a problem earlier with the intake valves hitting the plugs but we added washers (decreasing the stock CR of 6.5 or so...) we know the pushrods aren't bent, we have taken off the side valve covers and all seems right, none are bent that we can tell by sight... to actually check we'd have to take off the flat head... we aren't sure if that would tell us anything tho...

thanks for the idea's.. on this new rebuild is really possible for it to stick?
Thanks...
 
Thanks Vin Man for the reply...

you know what i'm going to check that, i'm sure not sure it's that... but i'll run the 'possible exhaust leak' by him and we'll check

i have noticed when you hit the gas it "pops" in the carb it's not the normal backfire sound you would expect... we did order a new cap and rotor with wires... i believe points as well for the 6v system...

this morning we were out there and we decided to tighten a few things... the fan belt being one of them, half of the taping quieted.. it's not as loud now... could this mean water pump? it's not easy getting to that so i'm hesitant to ask...

this engine is the first year packard went to hydralic lifters we have new EVERYthing in this engine except the block and head and crank... basko (don't get me started) did asymble it but didn't check it... i'm not sure what cam we have but is it possible that we were supposed to advance it 5* like we should on the i6's? or if it was a cam that was already degreed how can we tell?

Thanks,
Richard
 
MPGmustang":8gx9ie0v said:
i'm not sure what cam we have but is it possible that we were supposed to advance it 5* like we should on the i6's? or if it was a cam that was already degreed how can we tell?

Thanks,
Richard

That is why beyond my knowledge. I would ask an expert in engine mechanics. Probably many here on the board. Or Mike at Classic Inlines may be able to help you out.
 
Found the problem!!!

One word -> BASKO

My dad Called and called around with the symptoms that i mentioned and a new one that i didn't know... but still no one knew why

when hot it would 'seize' ... would not turn over at all... starter couldn't turn it over until cool, then it would start up all fine and dandy until hot again then it would do the same thing and sieze up...

so my dad got got a call for other reasons and he informed him of his delema on his 40 packard... he asked right away ' is it a freshly rebuilt engine? ' and informed us that the pistons are too big, roughly .0005 ~ .0015 to big as the piston expands while hot, then contracts when cool... so another rebuild is in order taking out the cyl walls .001~.002 of an inch... :cry: :unsure:

The sound was quieted alittle with the bolts on the intake but noting on the exhasut... it is still backfiring (more like back poping as we don't see smoke/flames just gas vapor) when cold, and it sounds like it going to hurt something,


Other than that we are going to tear it down again, and do it better than basko, i hope my dad doesn't go back to them... $6500 for an engine that didn't come home perfect is not customer satisfaction!!! :x

Thanks for your help and tips vin man,

Richard
 
does this sound right???

called basko and they siad that the engine needs to be "broken in" by running/driving it... yeah we know... but...

Question on a new engine rebuilt if you take it for a drive (say <100 miles) will it heat up so much as to "seize" completly to a stop?

and ontop of that should it be backfiring/clacking/ticking?

the water gets really hot, but the oil filter (it's own extremity away from enigne block) never gets warm/hot it's always cool to the touch... but we know it's geting oil presure...

our thermo is only a 160* and it over heats with that... we have added 3 1/8 inch holes for constant flow... didn't help... anyother idea's?

Thanks

Dad and Richard
 
MPGmustang":1zsy1z0k said:
.....

Question on a new engine rebuilt if you take it for a drive (say <100 miles) will it heat up so much as to "seize" completly to a stop? ....

That is just utter nonsense. No properly rebuilt engine will do anything of the sort. Anyone who says this is incompetent and most certainly will never be allowed to work on anything I own. Time to find another mechanic.
Joe
 
i agree with Joe
it's a simple exercise in logic really, you can't break in an engine if the engine seizes up before the engine can be broken in


honestly, i'd start looking into a call to the Better Business Bureau, or possibly small claims court
 
OK, I've given Basko the benefit of the doubt for too long. They are the source of this problem.

They screwed me on my 428 CobraJet engine, yet I was convinced my many that they are a great machine shop. I took my aussie head to them and, while the head seems to be fine after the work they did, I paid through the nose and up the a** for it.

I will not go back and I will make sure others are clear on my experience.

Having said that, with the amount of money you spent on them, they better make it right. Talk to Ray and demand they make it right. They should do the tear down or being willing to pay another shop to fix their mistakes.

Frikkin unbelieveable. $6800. Is it made of gold?

In an economy like this, shops should be going out of their way to take care of their customers. I guess Basko just wants to retire early....
 
Thanks Guys,

I'd thought i'd update, we tore apart the front end (again :unsure: ) and have it ready to yank

Basco, this is the (edit) (2)nd disapointment that we have had with them, the first was something about forgetting to bored out the v8 packard block 6yrs ago, now this... i'm never going to them.

Vinny, sadly it wasn't even dipped in gold, it came back bare metal and we painted it.

on the distance i exagerated, it is 15 mins of driving it seizes. or how hot it is.

question, my dad mentioned polishing the cyl walls, could this work? would polishing take enough off (roughly .005)?

Thanks,
Richard
 
MPGmustang":31v1qh3v said:
..... mentioned polishing the cyl walls, could this work? would polishing take enough off (roughly .005)? .....

No.

In theory one of those "ball-hones" could eventually do the job but it would take practically forever and the real problem is the fact that there is no way the cylinders would be straight.

A proper hone job on a Sunnen® machine or something similar is needed.
Joe
 
Hey guys question....

"basko (don't ask me why) told us to just run the engine, it will break in."
can an engine break in idling the whole time?

could it help if we ran without the thermostat?

will it break in properly if it runs without load (idling only) compared to other engines that breakin driving about?


Thanks,
Richard
 
Lazy JW":1wrzcnxt said:
MPGmustang":1wrzcnxt said:
.....

Question on a new engine rebuilt if you take it for a drive (say <100 miles) will it heat up so much as to "seize" completly to a stop? ....

That is just utter nonsense. No properly rebuilt engine will do anything of the sort. Anyone who says this is incompetent and most certainly will never be allowed to work on anything I own. Time to find another mechanic.
Joe
 
well now i guess my dad will just break the engine, he's read this forum but he's still going to run the engine. :( :cry:

Thanks for the posts... i think my dad just wants to prove something to b***o, i'll keep you updated.


-Richard
 
update...

Then car is driving, not pretty but driving, after a few miles we bring him back home and park, the generator didn't charge the battery so it's really hard to crank, we put on a fresh battery and you can tell it's hot as it's slow to turn over... the ultra copper helped on the sound for the intake and exhaust but it still too loud for a packard engine...

-Richard
 
Well it's time to update again.

We got it running (without fenders or any other protective metal) and drove it around every day for about 4 miles, thenn put it back away. it won't start when it's hot but it will at least turn over. we ran it to them and they they took it for a weekend with the car outside (we're still pissed off why they didn't put it in thier huge garage) and they didn't do anything friday saturday and sunday. we went to get it back monday and found them working on it.... anyway's they say that it's the hydrolic lifters that are bad (wait a minute the $1000 lifters that you didn't replace???) se we have it pulled and ready to give back to them and wait another 3-6 months for this rebuild. the only reason that we are going back is becasue he offered all labor free and anything that's required like the $300 gasket set, except for parts.... well i hope this time they fix that oil leak at the rear main and everything else.



-Richard
 
So what year is this Packard Super 8? I learned to drive on one, the family car in the late 60s and have a bit of a soft spot for them. It was a Henny Packard I8 limousine. My dad was a wheeler/dealer and a car doofus. He stored the thing outdoors for 10 years because it was 'worth a lot of money' and then sold it for cash after moving it twice in a decade. By then I was grown and living elsewhere. I might have even considered buying it.

Well, some guy in Alberta was interested in it and want to check it out. He and his teenage son had driven down to Des Moines Iowa from somewhere up in the great white north with a car transport trailer behind his pickup. He told my dad that if it didn't start, it was worth maybe $500 at most. Running, it was worth maybe $2000. (At least that is what I remember of the proportions.)

Dad and prospective buyer walked down toward the back of the house. My dad turned the key and it was dead. The guy did the same thing. Turned the key. Nothing. So he peeled off 5 bills, my dad handed over all the documents he had and walked back inside the house. Obviously it was the buyers snake to kill as to how he was going to load this 2 ton contraption on an uphill slope with only a boy to help him. The buyer told his son to go get the 'hot shot' battery from the truck. Son came back with said battery. Buyer squirted some gas in the carb, jumped the engine and started right up. He drove around the house and up onto the trailer that was parked in the street. The two secured it on the rack and drove back home. Apparently he wrote about the car in some Packard fan newsletter some time later using glowing turns of phrase. My dad was steamed every time someone asked him about the car after that.

I love guys that actually know what they are doing.
 
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