New member with first Flathead

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226-Flaty
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New member with first Flathead

Post #1 by 226-Flaty » Mon May 01, 2017 6:29 pm

So I don't want to waste space, this is both an intro and a 'build' thread. This is my first engine build with these funky things called pistons/valves/timing thingies/rods/rings. But I'm no stranger to mechanical stuff. I've been reading up on flatheads for a long time and I decided on the Ford Flathead for a build because 1) It's easily available and so are most parts. 2) It unlike most flatties, has 12 ports. 3) It has a full 4 main bearings (I'd prefer 7, but the Hudsons make do with only 4) unlike the V8. 4) I'm a big fan of the 51-52 Ford truck style.

I picked up this engine for almost free! It was sans Carb, Starter, Oil filter, Fuel pump, and Generator. So far I've located everything but the fuel pump and the carb. I'm thinking a Holley 1904 would be a good one.

Anyway, the engine is stuck! So I pulled the head, and was greeted by this:
IMG_20170429_155355.jpg


I pulled the inspection plates and checked out the valvetrain too, there's seriously 1/8th inch of caked on who knows what on there:
IMG_20170429_162129.jpg


I need to take the block out and power wash it. Will it hurt anything to pull the valves out through the top? I don't want to destroy the guides if I can avoid it. I've found a source for the valves, only $5 a piece. Hopefully they're the right ones. I can rotate the engine 1/16th back and forth, all 6 pistons move smooth, but I hit something and I don't want to force it. Can I pull the pistons throught bottom, and avaoid damaging the bores. I'm hoping to get away with a hone, but the ridge at the top of the cylinders might mean more cutting?

The plan for the engine, assuming the block isn't cracked (the hot spot between the two center exhausts looks good), is to build a header and exhaust, go with Megasquirt and a turbo. It's kinda like 21st century meets classic power-train. No LS/SBC's here!
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Tue May 02, 2017 11:50 am

226-Flaty wrote:So I don't want to waste space, this is both an intro and a 'build' thread. This is my first engine build with these funky things called pistons/valves/timing thingies/rods/rings. But I'm no stranger to mechanical stuff. I've been reading up on flatheads for a long time and I decided on the Ford Flathead for a build because 1) It's easily available and so are most parts. 2) It unlike most flatties, has 12 ports. 3) It has a full 4 main bearings (I'd prefer 7, but the Hudsons make do with only 4) unlike the V8. 4) I'm a big fan of the 51-52 Ford truck style.

I picked up this engine for almost free! It was sans Carb, Starter, Oil filter, Fuel pump, and Generator. So far I've located everything but the fuel pump and the carb. I'm thinking a Holley 1904 would be a good one.

Anyway, the engine is stuck! So I pulled the head, and was greeted by this:
IMG_20170429_155355.jpg

I pulled the inspection plates and checked out the valvetrain too, there's seriously 1/8th inch of caked on who knows what on there:
IMG_20170429_162129.jpg

I need to take the block out and power wash it. Will it hurt anything to pull the valves out through the top? I don't want to destroy the guides if I can avoid it. I've found a source for the valves, only $5 a piece. Hopefully they're the right ones. I can rotate the engine 1/16th back and forth, all 6 pistons move smooth, but I hit something and I don't want to force it. Can I pull the pistons throught bottom, and avaoid damaging the bores. I'm hoping to get away with a hone, but the ridge at the top of the cylinders might mean more cutting?

The plan for the engine, assuming the block isn't cracked (the hot spot between the two center exhausts looks good), is to build a header and exhaust, go with Megasquirt and a turbo. It's kinda like 21st century meets classic power-train. No LS/SBC's here!


Welcome to the site 226-Flaty, the 226 six has lots of potential, their horsepower was only 5 HP less then the Ford Flathead V8's and with their bottom end torque was about the same, but even better was that it peaked at a much lower RPM so they could out pull the V8's from a stop.

It probally won't hurt the guides if you take some care, pulling the valve out the top is the only way to get them out. Remove the valve springs, then clean them up as best you can with a wire brush on a drill and next use some penetrating oil like Liquid Wrench or Twice As Good (NAPA) etc. Then take your time working them a little then soak them, let them set some and repeat, eventually they will come apart.

The pistions in most engines won't come out the bottom, when you pull the oil pan you will be able to tell right away. You will need a ridge reamer to cut out any cylinder ridge to be able to safely pull the pistions out the top as well as to prepare the cylinders to be honed for new rings. Good luck on your rebuild :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #3 by 226-Flaty » Tue May 02, 2017 11:22 pm

Got a little more work done today! Took out the engine and power washed it. Mostly covered myself in grease, but the engine looks somewhat better. Some of the grease is REALLY stubborn, back to the scraper I suppose?

Anyway, I also pulled the oil pan and well I've never seen anything so disgusting inside! It even has dead bugs and a few spider webs:
IMG_20170502_210515[1].jpg


Is this what happens when you run non-detergent oil? BTW Second Chance Garage lists the 226 as having 4 quart capacity, but the pan looks much larger, more like my old 390 which was 5 quarts.

I see two grooves at each end of the crank, where the rope seal is, that's normal right?

Thanks for the heads up about the valves, I'll try to pull them slowly, over the next week or so. Could I pull the pisotns out the bottom, if I removed the crank? I think I'll need to to clean it? Not even sure how to clean something like this.

BTW, I think I mentioned I'm more familiar with those VooDoo Rotaries. :rolflmao:
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #4 by wsa111 » Wed May 03, 2017 8:18 am

Welcome aboard. I believe your engine once torn down need to take a bath in a real hot tank. The pressure wash system is marginal on the sludge your jewel has.
Once completed you will have a real nice engine.
67 mustang,C-4, with mod. 80 hd, custom 500 cfm carb with annular boosters, hooker headers, dual exh.-X pipe, flowmaster mufflers, duraspark II dist. with MSD-6AL. Engine 205" .030" over with offset ground crank & 1.65 roller rockers. 9.5 comp., Isky 262 cam.
2003 Ford Lightning daily driver. Recurving Distributors. billythedistributorman@live.com
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #5 by manglass » Wed May 03, 2017 9:06 am

I'm not a flathead expert, by any means, but I thought I'd weigh in with some general information and answer a couple of your questions.

"...Anyway, the engine is stuck! So I pulled the head, and was greeted by this..." This engine appears to have been stored outside in the weather, water entered through the open intake manifold and turned everything to rust. Rust in the cylinder bores is probably why the engine only turns over a little. You can probably break them free with time and penetrating oil at the possible cost of a few broken piston rings or ring lands on the piston. The ridge at the top of the cylinder requires a "ridge reamer" to remove it so you can get the pistons out. I believe the cylinders are probably going to require an overbore or, possibly, a sleeve if cracked. If this engine was stored outdoors in freezing weather, you will definitely need to have the cylinders as well as the rest of the block carefully checked for cracks.

"...Is this what happens when you run non-detergent oil? ..." Yes! That's what they used to look like when we pulled them down, full of sludge. It's the same thing you found by the valve springs but it got warmer there and baked itself on. I can't tell for sure from the photo but the bottom end looks like it may have been full of water too.

Good luck with it. Keep us posted.

Lou Manglass

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #6 by 226-Flaty » Mon May 08, 2017 9:21 pm

Just a quick update; the Mazda's been taking most of my time, so I haven't been able to mess with the Ford too much.

I got the main caps off, the oil pickup off, and am working on the valves/springs now. Luckily the pistons held the crank in the block when I rotated the engine and forgot I'd disconnected the mains :roll:

I found a valve spring compressor at NAPA, but upon inspection, it seems too small/awkward to use on this engine. I I realize now that it's meant for SMALL engines, not my Flatty. Thanks to Google I know I need to get a tool that looks like it has 2 handles and a knob on it to compress the springs. The one I have now looks more like salad tongs gone wrong. :rolflmao:

Where can I buy one of the old school valve compressors?

And before I get too far ahead of myself, will pulling the valves ruing the guides? I don't want to paint myself into a corner with unavailable parts.

Oh one last thing, I don't want the stock manifolds anymore so I'd like to sell em. Any ideas on a fair price? They're car manifolds, not the truck ones.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Tue May 09, 2017 12:46 am

This is like the KD valve spring compressor I used on flathead engines (see the link below for a used one that is also listed for sale). As far as finding one you might check at any thrift stores and pawn shops in your area that's how my Dad found ours then there is also eBay too. By the way many of the Flathead engines had removeable valve guides so they can be replaced by driving them out with a valve guide removing tool that should still be able to be bought new at some the Antique Auto supply houses or look at the same places as for the valve spring compressor. Once you get the valve springs off you will see if the valve guides are removeable. Top link below is a post about 226 valve guide removal shows some pictures of the old Flathead tools used the one halfway down in the middle picture is like one we had for driving out the valve guides. Good luck :nod:

A good post about 226 Valve guide removal
https://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/thr ... on.554566/

This the KD Valve Spring compressor like my Dad and me used on our Flathead engines
https://www.etsy.com/listing/499147285/ ... wAodctwOmg
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #8 by ramjet 80 » Tue May 09, 2017 9:08 pm

Its amazing, I am also building a H series 226, it was also locked up an when I opened it up it looks just like the inside of yours. I sending mine to a shop that has a degreaser cabinet. Then I will disassemble it without fighting all that muck. Contact EGGE Machine Co. in Santa Fe Springs Ca 90670, They sell many parts for these engines. They will send you a Vintage Parts Catalog at no cost. The plan you have for your engine is the same as mine so maybe we can share information. One other suggestion, there is a product called EvapoRust that will work on your valve train, I got a quart size can at Harbor Freight. Good Luck !!!

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #9 by amodel25 » Wed May 10, 2017 12:58 pm

Kanter's is also a good source for engine parts. I used their parts when I rebuilt my 226 a few years ago. All domestic parts in old stock boxes. No Chinese junk.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #10 by 226-Flaty » Tue Jun 20, 2017 11:43 pm

I know, I know, it's been a while, but my Mazda is eating up all my wrenching time.

Anyway, I got the pistons, rods, and crank out of the engine. Pistons are aftermarket Silvolites, 1301 I think on them.

Now I just need to find a flathead valve compressor so I can get the valves out, and then the cam. I take it, a valve compressor for an OHV won't work at all from what I see.

Once valves, guides and lifters are out, does the cam slide out?

One more thing, I can't seem to get the 3/8th inch square plugs out of the side of the block, they're REALLY stuck. Maybe heat, and a crows foot with a breaker bar? Oh same problem with the flathead plug near the rear of the engine. I'll get pics tomorrow.

Once it's stripped, block is going off to get sonic checked and magnafluxed.

If it checks out good, it's porting time!

Oh seriously, last thing, I'm going to sell the stock manifolds, not going to use them, I assume they're worth something? No cracks, but the exhaust flapper doohickey is missing.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:25 am

Yes you are correct that you will need a flathead type valve spring compressor. Yes once the valve springs and lifters are out the cam can then slide out. On the 3/8 plugs you might try finding a 3/8 square socket to remove them, an impact screw driver kit should work good for the flathead screw too. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #12 by 226-Flaty » Tue Jul 04, 2017 9:47 pm

It's been a while but I've located teh tools I need from a member on here, who is kind enough to sell them to me for a good price, thanks Lou!

Anyway, I have gone through and removed every pipe plug and screw-in plug I can find, dang I love air tools, and bolt extractors!

In the meantime I've had the block soaking the water jackets in Evapo-Rust. It takes right around 2 gallons to fill the block btw. the water pump weep hole is leaking (Jammed some putty in there for now to stop the leak) so, I'll likely have to rebuild the pump.

Good news though, all of the bores look decent, and preliminary tests with the inside micrometers are measuring 3.30! Is it possible I have a stock bore block?

I've also managed to spare a little time to the mud/greaseball of a transmission I drug home. I think it's a heavy duty 4-speed from an F-3 or something. But unfortunately it doesn't really matter as the dang case is cracked!

I'm going to go ahead and assume this trans is junk, and not worth fixing? I don't really know if it's rare enough to save anything out of, but if it is and someone wants parts, let me know! It weighs around 100 lbs, so with today's scrap prices, it's not even worth the gas to drag it to the scrapper... :rolflmao:
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #13 by 226-Flaty » Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:39 am

My tools showed up! Got a full set of tools to do valve jobs on the flatty. Yay. :D

I let the evaporust sit in the block for 3 days, then rinsed it thoroughly. Everything came out black, and a lot of the rust is gone, not all but a lot more than I thought. :)

So I've got a few of the valve locks out but I'm running into a problem where the 'rotators' cone shaped things are really stuck! The locks are underneath these things,and when the cone's are pried up they fall right out. I think this is a late 50/51 engine, as the earlier ones didn't have the cone doohickeys, right? Anyway here's a pic of the things:
IMG_20170711_204129[1].jpg


Once I get the locks out (not really easy/possible on the valves that are on the intake/exhaust stroke), how do I valve itself out? I have the KD 918, but can't see a way to use it on valves that are closed. The cam won't rotate with the valves stuck in place either.

I did some basic measuring, the intakes measure 1 inch by 1.4 inches wide, for the siamesed ports. Absolutely tiny considering the single intakes are 1 inch by about 1 inches. The exhaust measure about 1x1 as well, but with a dome at the top. I see lots of room for more flow! I wonder why Ford was so conservative on their intake design, the siamesed ports are being fed by a runner in equal cross section (near the elbow of the intake) that's the same as a single port! No wonder cylinders would run lean/rich?!? I'm going to chekc into soem Felpro custom gasket material and make my own manifolds, the Ford ones just look like terrible engineering (still better than the Chevy ones and Dodge of the era, or the V8 flatty though!).

One last thing, have you guys seen the prices these engines are getting on ebay? $300 for just a block, $400 for a rusty core. $1300 for a rebuilt stocker? Whoa, that's a lot of money for an engine that I thought was kinda junk/no one would want to buy. :rolflmao:
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #14 by manglass » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:11 am

Once you've lifted the valve spring (as in your photo), the valve keepers (wedge shaped pieces near the bottom of the valve stem) should fall out. If they don't, they are in 2 pieces and you can give them a pry with a small screwdriver at the split. Once the keepers are removed, the valve should slide out with only the resistance of any dried up "crud" on the stem to hold it back. You might have to tap it a little, or pry gently at the top.

IIRC, the KD-918 is for the guides and the valve must be removed first to service those.

Lou Manglass

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:55 am

226-Flaty wrote:It's been a while but I've located teh tools I need from a member on here, who is kind enough to sell them to me for a good price, thanks Lou!

Anyway, I have gone through and removed every pipe plug and screw-in plug I can find, dang I love air tools, and bolt extractors!

In the meantime I've had the block soaking the water jackets in Evapo-Rust. It takes right around 2 gallons to fill the block btw. the water pump weep hole is leaking (Jammed some putty in there for now to stop the leak) so, I'll likely have to rebuild the pump.

Good news though, all of the bores look decent, and preliminary tests with the inside micrometers are measuring 3.30! Is it possible I have a stock bore block?

I've also managed to spare a little time to the mud/greaseball of a transmission I drug home. I think it's a heavy duty 4-speed from an F-3 or something. But unfortunately it doesn't really matter as the dang case is cracked!

I'm going to go ahead and assume this trans is junk, and not worth fixing? I don't really know if it's rare enough to save anything out of, but if it is and someone wants parts, let me know! It weighs around 100 lbs, so with today's scrap prices, it's not even worth the gas to drag it to the scrapper... :rolflmao:


:hmmm: Yes it's quite possible that the block is still a standard bore. After a little clean up that Trans case could be welded or braised back togeather if you still wanted to use it!

First Work at getting all the valve keepers off of on any of the valves that are on the heel of the cam i.e. The springs aren't compressed. At that point you will still need a way to turn the cam a quarter turn repeat turn cam another 1/4 turn repeat etc. Good luck you are making real progress! :nod: :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #16 by 226-Flaty » Wed Jul 12, 2017 11:43 pm

Hey thanks Lou, I thought I was using it wrong! I guess I should have read the name on the side of it...

Anyway, I fond out that the V8 spring compresser bar works great to push up that little cone thing and let the keepers fall out! I got all but 2 done. those 2 valves are fully extended, on their respective intake and exhaust positions. I can't get the springs cmpressed enough to push up the keeper cone thing so that the keepers will fall out. Is it normal to have to FORCE the cone thing upwards? They did not drop out at all like in some videos!

OK since I got the other 10 valves de-keepered, I'm not sure how to remove them from the block. I'd think prying upwards on them would do it? But since most are totally flush with the seats, how do I proceed? I can't seem to get the cam to rotate either, so I think that's a no-go as the valves have rusted into the valve stem guides. I watched a video of people doing it in a V8, but they were able to lift the valves slightly by hand. I definitely can't.

On the plus side, all the lifters seem to be free! :rolflmao:

Oh and thanks to all for the kind words.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #17 by manglass » Fri Jul 14, 2017 3:52 pm

"Anyway, I fond out that the V8 spring compresser bar works great to push up that little cone thing and let the keepers fall out!"
Ahhh good, I remembered correctly. That tool will knock them apart very quickly. Not much use for putting them back together though.

" I got all but 2 done. those 2 valves are fully extended, on their respective intake and exhaust positions. I can't get the springs cmpressed enough to push up the keeper cone thing so that the keepers will fall out."
These lifters are probably on the nose of the camshaft (highest lift). You will need to turn the motor (or at least the camshaft) over to get those 2 valves on the base of the lobe so you can compress the spring enough to remove the keepers.

"OK since I got the other 10 valves de-keepered, I'm not sure how to remove them from the block."
Take a brass drift and try tapping on the stem from the bottom. If that's not happening refer to the K-D manual that I attached to one of the e-mails. It has instructions for using the guide tool to remove the guide and valve together. There is a retainer on the valve guide that must be removed first (using the 917 tool). I did not know this but once the retainer is removed, the 918 tool is also designed to remove the guide and valve together when they are frozen. Apparently, valves frozen into the guides was a pretty common problem "back in the day." For detailed information check the K-D manual I sent, all the details are there. If you need another copy, just shoot me an e-mail and I'll send it to you again. I tried to find a way to post it on here for everyone's benefit but there doesn't seem to be any easy method.

Lou Manglass

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #18 by 226-Flaty » Sun Jul 16, 2017 11:55 pm

Oh yeah, thanks for the instructions Lou, I still have them on my machine here.

You would be correct, the 2 raised valves are at the top of the camshaft lobe. They move sorta. There's no way I can figure to get anything to hit on the bottom of the stems, with the camshaft in the way as it is. I spent some time soaking the valve guides and heads in PB blaster, and hammering 'gently' on the valve heads. They're going to all be trash anyway, so when one broke I didn't think much of it. :roll:

I've been trying to use the KD 918, but it seems that the lower part of the tool won't fit between the spring coils, nor is the opening on the valve cup large enough to fit around the valves. I'm wondering if the V8 have smaller diameter springs and valves that the tool was designed for? I can get some presure on the assembly, but all that seems to happen is I compress the spring, not the valve guide, and the tool eventually pops off the spring. Makes a neat noise though. The cup part of the 918 likes to pop of too, some times if there's any lateral force on the head, easy enough to fix though. Here's some pics to illustrate:
IMG_20170716_194051[1].jpg

IMG_20170716_194027[1].jpg


Are the valve guides on these engines Iron? If so I think I may be in a world of hurt regarding rust! :bang:
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:20 pm

Yes the stock guides on them are made of cast iron, new one are still available. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #20 by manglass » Tue Jul 18, 2017 3:35 pm

I can't tell from the picture. You do have the valve spring pressure off the valves, correct?

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #21 by 226-Flaty » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:02 am

Yeah looks like I found a few sources for new guides. Not too bad price wise either.

Unfortunately I'm exhausted, 14 hours overtime in this heat on a room will do that...didn't get anything done on the flatty since I sent the last pictures.

Hmm, I took the keepers off, but I can't move the cam, nor the springs, so I guess there's still pressure? It's as though the spring is just a little too large in diameter (Or the coils too close) to allow the 918 to slide all the way on to the stem and push the guide out.

Is there a way to get email updates from these threads? I have to manually check and I feel like I'm neglecting this place!

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #22 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:19 am

226-Flaty wrote:Yeah looks like I found a few sources for new guides. Not too bad price wise either.

Unfortunately I'm exhausted, 14 hours overtime in this heat on a room will do that...didn't get anything done on the flatty since I sent the last pictures.

Hmm, I took the keepers off, but I can't move the cam, nor the springs, so I guess there's still pressure? It's as though the spring is just a little too large in diameter (Or the coils too close) to allow the 918 to slide all the way on to the stem and push the guide out.

Is there a way to get email updates from these threads? I have to manually check and I feel like I'm neglecting this place!


Yes you can be notified whenever someone responds to your posts! When you make your posts or edit them look at the Options section below the section were your typing the post. In that Options section check the box for "notify me when a reply is posted". Next in your personal "Control Panel / Dash Board" also make sure that you have your email listed for that notification. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #23 by manglass » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:36 am

If the engine is stuck and won't turn over, you'll need to remove the timing cover and the gears and/or chain underneath. Then you should be able to turn the cam. Once you can turn the cam, you can get the lifters to their low point and have a little more room to work. I really think you might be able to jam a screwdriver in between the lifter and the end of the valve stem and "persuade" the valve enough to get it moving.

Lou

226-Flaty
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #24 by 226-Flaty » Sun Jul 23, 2017 12:23 am

In reply to Lou:

The engine is definitely stuck. I've removed the pistons, rods, crank, oil pump (partially), water pump, and all threaded plugs. All that's left is the cam, lifters, valves, guides and springs.

I'm afraid to put too much force on the fiber timing gear. I looked up buying a new one, in aluminum and they're really expensive, the press on ones, or only $50 or so for the bolt on. I'd assume mine's bolt on? I need to double check that. If so, I'm going to go at it, and if it breaks, I don't have to panic. If I can get teh valves to move at all, I can pull they with pry-bat or 918 I think. If not, I'm going to have to find some way to cut the springs out so I can get the 918 tool in there better!

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #25 by 226-Flaty » Thu Jul 27, 2017 9:27 pm

I've been working 10's so have very little time to mess with the Flatty, sorry.
Anyway, I figured out I may have been using the valve guide removal tools wrong. What I learned is that if you pry up the spring, and THEN insert the KD guide puller tool, it fits nicely around the valve stem.

Here's a pic of what I did:
IMG_20170727_191606[1].jpg


I put lots of pressure on the arrangement there, and the guides will not budge! It seems like the valve heads are larger diameter than the opening int he 917's cup? That's supposed to be that way right? I think the next step is a torch? I'll have to buy one if so.

Also just to be sure, the whole assembly of spring, guide and valve is supposed to pop out the top of the block right? Like I've seen in diagrams? I'll figure it out eventually.
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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #26 by flatford6 » Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:50 pm

The valve guides are pressed into the block very tightly. You would need a press and proper driver to get them out. I would leave them in and if they are too loose to have proper clearance with the valve, have false guides installed. To get the cam gear off, it needs to be turned until the bolts that hold the thrust plate behind the gear are lined up with the the two holes in the gear so a socket can be inserted to remove the bolts that hold the bronze thrust plate to the block. If you can't turn the cam, the gear will have to be drilled in line with the to allow them to be removed or broken off to allow access to the bolts. Aluminum gears have two bolt holes to allow them to be pulled off the cam. Once you get the cam gear off and the rear cam freeze plug and oil pump off the cam can gently drive the cam forward and backward a little to loosen it and then hopefully turn it. Do not allow any cam lobes to hit adjacent lifters! Only very early 1947 H model engines have bolt on gears with four bolts. Good luck!!!!!!

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Re: New member with first Flathead

Post #27 by bubba22349 » Sat Oct 07, 2017 11:11 pm

:hmmm: how you doing on your tear down? :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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