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223 Cam Info

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OMahony223
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223 Cam Info

Post #1 by OMahony223 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:04 pm

Curious about cross drilled 223 camshafts and 223 cam's in general. Do all these cams interchange with the entire 223 block production. Also what about cam bearings, most listing show one bearing for the entire 223 production. I've built a fresh '54 motor and sent out my original cam for regrind and think maybe I ended up with an exchanged cross drill replacement. Only recently I've read a thread mentioning cross drilled 223 cams and previously never realized the variation. So, looking to confirm the interchangeability. Thanks in advance for any thoughts or reply's. Cheers, tim

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bubba22349
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Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:09 pm

Yes the cross drilled cams interchange with the earlier cams it is though they are an improvement in oiling over the non drilled cams. Yes cam bearings were the same during the years of 223 production. As far as camshafts I know of three stock grinds used in these engine one for the 215 which has a different distribor location then the 223 & 262 engines. There were at least two cams that were used in the 223's I don't know that there's much if any differance except for the later optional zero lash cam. I had both these cams and was going to plot the timing events of both of them to see. The Zero lash cam is listed as a different part number with a 12 tooth Distribtor drive gear mentioned, still I have my doubts that they used a different drive gear from the other 223 cam, they use the same lifters as the standard cam. I also never got to see any of the 262 cams or found any info that they used a different grind. Best of luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am hunting for a cheap project car to build up. My Ex-Fleet of Sixes sadly these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

OMahony223
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Joined: Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:10 am

Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #3 by OMahony223 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:15 am

Bubba,

Thank you, thank you. That gives me peace of mind. I seemed to recall the cross drill at assembly time and it didn't click at the time. I am pretty sure I got an exchange cam. Glad to eliminate that as a consideration.

I am dealing with a momentary loss of oil pump prime at idle, otherwise 40+ lbs running. Original pump thru 5 motor overhaul's and many, many miles. I am going to try a newly available aftermarket pump. Motor uses the round flat key shaft pump which has been un-obtainium until recently. Challenges in my old age....smile. Bubba, I admire your knowledge. Thx, tim

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bubba22349
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Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 12:56 pm

Thank you for the kind words. For decades now have been using the Melling oil pumps in the engines I build. What kind of bearing clearances do you use? One other thing on oil pumps if you have any plans to be upgrading the Ingistion system by ditching the stock LOM Distribtor and swapping in one of the later Ford 300 six duel advance type point or better still DuraSpark II electronic Distributors, you can use the 1964 223 oil pump with its Hex oil pump drive shaft to make that swap easier, or you can also make a slotted to hex drive adapter.

One problem with these engines is the position of their oil filter laying flat on it's side, and then compounding this by not using a oil filter of suffent quality. Many years ago I took a class on engine servicing, Maintance, oils, and other lubes, during the class we examined filters of many different brands I found out that on inside oil filters can vary greatly. So since than will only use the best oil filters on any of my cars or trucks or a customer's, like Wix, NAPA (they are also made by Wix), or Motorcraft. Many of the lower cost spin on type oil filters used in oil change centers and also including the standard duty Fram filters won't have the anti drain back valve, very important on these engines with a side mounted filter. The symptom your describing sounds just like it's caused from a oil filter witout an anti drain back valve so the oil in the filter might be draining back out into the oil pan after engine shut down and causeing a dry start up, this is the first place I would look into. Best of luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am hunting for a cheap project car to build up. My Ex-Fleet of Sixes sadly these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

OMahony223
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Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #5 by OMahony223 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:04 pm

I can't recite measured clearances at this point but I remember being satisfied with how it measured out. I went all out on machine work, done by a machinist I have long confidence in . I installed dry bearings to torque settings and snap gauged and measured all. Crank thrust and rod side clearances etc. I also plasti gauged dry rod and mains prior to final assembly. Maybe I missed somewhere...but was very careful and in no hurry. I've experience in building motors.

I am thinking I need to remove the motor and inspect, only reason I hesitate is that I easily achieve 40+ lbs of working pressure with motor at temp. If oil pressure was half that and then dropped of at idle I would be sure of a clearances problem. Just seems to lose prime at idle speed, even then it doesn't completely drop away unless a bit of a sharp stop. Like the pick up un-covers. Pickup tube and oil pump mating surfaces are flat and checked.

My 54 uses a short production 223 oil pump, using a round drive having flat key ends at both the pump and distributor ends, also using a long tube pick up that mounts to the side of the pump. Each rebuild interval I have reused the original pump.

I had to make a bottom plate gasket at this last rebuild and it was half again thicker than original? Funny how hard a guy can reach doing diagnostics, experience has always shown answers to be straight forward....smile.

Didn't realize there was a oil pump – distributor conversion that was workable. I've always strive to keep this truck all original, it came to me having never been apart. Maybe time to get on the bus.

Again, thank you very much bubba.

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bubba22349
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Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #6 by bubba22349 » Fri Jun 19, 2020 11:36 pm

Yes I don't think it's bearing clearances and especially now hearing how you carfully checked them before assembling the engine, I only put that out there as one of the possibilitys for low oil pressure. :hmmm: Are you talking about having a gasket between the bottom of oil pump gear section and its cover plate? If so that's were your losing your oil pump prime the bottom plate needs to be very flat and a very close tolerance to the pump gears to be able to seal and produce it's rated oil pressure. Have that bottom plate resurfaced flat and you will be good to go again making even higher oil pressure.

Yes there are two later Distribtor conversions first is the 1968 to 1974 240 / 300 point type that would very close to stock has the better centrivical advance as well as a better Vacuum advance. You can add a Pertronix under the Distribtor cap to turn it into a Breakerless system able to use a wider spark plug gap with better quality spark plug wire set, giving you better driveableity, faster startups, a hotter spark with their complimenting Blaster Coil, much longer lasting tune ups, a bit more power, and even a bit better fuel economy all while still keeping the stock looking appearance. Then the second next step up is with the one in above post (DS II 1976 to 1984) however it won't look quite as stock unless you hide some of the components, and with using the later Distribtor cap and wires. But you can use the DuraSpark I cap or a quality points cap and rotor (such as NAPA. Echlin) to make it look stock again. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am hunting for a cheap project car to build up. My Ex-Fleet of Sixes sadly these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

OMahony223
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Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #7 by OMahony223 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 12:21 am

Bubba,

I think you may have nailed it! I had taken the oil pump apart to clean and left it to soak for a couple of weeks and remember making a gasket for the bottom plate. Got something to do tomorrow.....I know the pan will come off without removing the motor. Done that once in my young days. I will let you know. Amazing call. Cheers, tim

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bubba22349
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Location: Flagstaff, Az. 86005 near the old Route 66

Re: 223 Cam Info

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Sat Jun 20, 2020 2:47 am

I think it's all because of the suggestions / questions asked and then your quite detailed answers during our above discussion. This is what really triggered my memories on what required to set up oil pumps properly leading to that discovery of the likely cause, many times it can be much harder getting to all these details. Best of luck should be easy to fix except for the crawling under the truck part to do it. :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am hunting for a cheap project car to build up. My Ex-Fleet of Sixes sadly these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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