H (226) vs. M (254), front view-which is the 254 and why??

all comments welcomed[/img]C:\WINDOWS\Application Data\OLYMPUS\Camedia Master 4\Album\Samples\Samples\p226vs254.jpg

I tried to post a photo but it did not work;sorry

It shows the difference in the cam gears and how the engineers were designing the 254 cam with a wavy-look vs. a flat surface for the 226

I can send the photo to someone (Fred how about some help?) who wants to post it; too tired at the moment to do all the research. If you PM me I will send it and you can post it.

T Y I A

john

You gotta upload it to a hosting site like http://www.imageshack.us. Then copy the codes they give you that start with (labeled 'Thumbnail for forums') onto this site. It should work.

I can't remember if it's the first forum codes on the imageshack site or the second set, but you can use 'Preview' to see which work.

On the flathead V8 motors the wavy looking cam gears were all aluminum and the flat looking gears were fiber gears for quieter running. It would not surprise me at all if the 226 came from a passenger car. It could just be two different types of metal gears too.

When running the crankshaft rotates clockwise when viewed from the front of the motor.

You can still get new old stock M rods from http://www.joblotauto.com.

Please keep the pictures coming, I am curious about this build.

Fred, thanks for posting the photo;

now that you mention it, if you examine closely, both of the gears on the 254 (right one) are aluminum, and apparently the teeth too, based on the color of the metal.

Examining the gears on the 226 (left one, from a 1951 passenger car) they appear to be steel (gear & teeth).

I am going to forward a photo of the head bolts, which are different too, as one might expect.

Also, coming is a photo of the oil pick-up tube strainer screens; one has been thoroughly cleaned and the other you can't see thru it even though it is on a white pc of styrofoam, and it has been partially cleaned. I thought the first one (254) could not have been more clogged, but the 226 was much worse and troubling to clean. What ever type of oil he used must not have been a detergent type! MERCY

TIP: I couldn't get the screen to begin to really make progress, until I soaked it in Gunk Carb & parts cleaner for a couple hours, removed it and used a tooth brush with Palmolive liquid detergent and brushed it gently under luke warm running water. The Gunk loosened it up and the gentle brushing definitely removed quite a bit; now back to the Gunk for a couple more hours and brushing again (I suspect 3-5 cycles might be needed to get this one thoroughly clean). I finally had to resort to a water hose with an adjustable nozzle to break loose the heavy crud on the inside (high pressure), and that was the final trick necessary to achieve perfect results. I now notice a slight rust on the 254 screen (not the 226 screen though), as well as other parts such as valve covers, internal; I may resort to clear-coating all of the sheet metal parts with a clear, high temp paint if I can find it for sale. I hate internal engine rust and greasy crud!! On my way to purchase another 226 today-adios for now! The 226 is from a 50 F1 with a 4-speed tranny; tranny is for sale. The gear lube looks VERY clean. 901 753 1130, Memphis, Tn 38138
=^..^=

Both crank gears are cast iron. The right cam gear is aluminum, the left cam gear is a bakelite type fiber gear. In my experience they are used interchangeably between the two sizes of engines. Many of the fiber gears will have broken teeth after years of use. I have never seen a broken aluminum cam gear tooth in these engines or in flathead v8s. The cam gears were available in 6 and 12 thousandths oversize to compensate for wear in the crank gear. Late 1947 and some 1948 used a press on flange on the cam and the gear bolted onto the flange with 4 bolts. These gears did not have the two access holes in them for removal of the 2 thrust plate bolts. There was also some difference in the heat treatment of the cam lobes between the car and truck cams. What are you going to use your engine for, Sunday driving, hotrod, racing, truck torker, display trophy? I hope you can post your progress in building it as it occurs.

flatford6":d85yd7ij said:

Both crank gears are cast iron. The right cam gear is aluminum, the left cam gear is a bakelite type fiber gear. In my experience they are used interchangeably between the two sizes of engines. Many of the fiber gears will have broken teeth after years of use. I have never seen a broken aluminum cam gear tooth in these engines or in flathead v8s. The cam gears were available in 6 and 12 thousandths oversize to compensate for wear in the crank gear. Late 1947 and some 1948 used a press on flange on the cam and the gear bolted onto the flange with 4 bolts. These gears did not have the two access holes in them for removal of the 2 thrust plate bolts. There was also some difference in the heat treatment of the cam lobes between the car and truck cams. What are you going to use your engine for, Sunday driving, hotrod, racing, truck torker, display trophy? I hope you can post your progress in building it as it occurs.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input. I plan to build the 254 for drag racing, and maybe a 226 for street driving and on trips to car shows. Low boost,
turbo-charging is a definite consideration. There appears lots of subtle things that can be done to the engine internally to improve it's performance. I plan to do similar tricks to both engines as things progress, where feasible.

One thing to improve oil distribution to the rods is as follows: the cranks only have a single hole outlet for each rod; drill it all the way through so oil goes out on both sides, plus splay in the opposite direction (CCW) as the crank turns while running.

Consider shot peening the rods and the crankshaft. I am taking my cranks to a couple crankshaft specialists to see what types of improvements can be pursued, such as lightening, computer-balancing, grinding to racing tolerances, improved radaii, (? billet crank ?), etc. For interesting reading: http://www.aa1car.com/library/2005/eb040554.htm

It should be interesting, and probably very expensive, unfortunately, if I go the billet route.

You are going to have an interesting time with these 2 buildups. There may not be as much expense involved as you think because of the extreme simplicity and general ruggedness of Ford's design. The main thing to do first is make sure you have good blocks. They tend to crack, from the cylinders to between the valves. Some blocks will crack horozontally on the manifold mounting surface just under the head bolt holes, about 3/4" down from the top of the block like the head bolts were tightened too tight. Many engines will have burnt exhaust valves, in contrast very few flathead v8s burn valves. The vacuum advance diaphragms fail on these engines often and that causes poor or no advance and causes the engines to heat up. F6 and F7 trucks were underpowered with even the 254 and this caused them to be run at full throttle for long periods of time. The long stroke and very short valve timing encouraged low rpm 'lugging' and my experience is that old time six owners liked to drive at low rpm and chug chug around. In contrast, 'lugging' a flathead v8 was not done because they would not pull at low rpm, they would just cough and die. If you are interested in reading about Ford flathead six racing buildups here are some articles. Hot Rod magazine February, 1951 has a good article by Don Francisco, A rewrite of this article is in Hot Rod Your Car, Trend book 106, 1952. Hot Rod magazine March 1951 has an article about an F head conversion. California Bill's Ford speed manual both the 1952 edition which is currently being reprinted and the 1949 edition are both very informative. There also various Ford publications from the early 1950s for cars, trucks, and industrial Ford six engines. Factory parts books when they can be found are very helpfull. As to the cost, all overhaul parts are available, cams can be reground for under $150.00 by Clay Smith or Isky, intake manifolds and exhaust manifolds or headers are simple to make. The hard item to find is an aluminum high compression head. Four or more manufacturers made them but that was over fifty years ago. Look for Knudsen, Edmunds, Cyclone, and Winfield. Done right, you could probably expect 200 hp with the 254 at about 270+ cu in. Very competitive with the flathead v8.

The longer bolt is out of the 254


oil screens




Can you send some pictures of the combustion chamber side of the heads side by side and a picture of the two different types of rods?

I weighed the flywheels:

H = 31 #s

M = 35.5 #s

Pros and cons on Aluminum flywheels??

Anyone in USA currently selling for the 6?

(I have found one business selling AL flywheels for the V8)

PS: will post photos of the heads later after return from hot-tanking

The 254 crankshaft is out, and there is only one stubborn piston remaining as "still stuck", #1;

the machinist was working on it this am when I just stopped by for a few minutes.

Still looking for a '49 Ford Custom, original SIX cyl car that is for sale; just missed a good one in NM this week, by 3 days.

901 753 1130

I was just speaking with a gentleman in a CA machine shop;

he was telling me that a few years ago they were experimenting with changing the original Ford timing and they got the "6" exhaust valves to running cooler. Have any of you fellows run across this idea before?

He told me that he would see if he could dig up the info and share it with us; I'll pass it along should he call me back.

NAPA, part # 7354351, $ 12.49 ea

NAPA spin-on filters #'s => 21060 or 21515

May be that this adapter is for a Chevy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! IT IS!


NOTE: this may NOT work; I am on my way over to find out now. Murphy's Law! If anything can go wrong, it will!

it uses NAPA oil filter #'s, as follows:

NAPA.............AC PF-25..........................$

O'Reilley........PH13 (FRAM).....................$

O'Reilley........Purolator TF-141................$

Still examining; got to run back to exchange filters; got wrong filter # too, initially, from the salesman.

This is NOT looking good; thinking of contacting Mr Gasket, and request that they develop an adapter specifically for the Ford flathead six!

I shall call them tomorrow & try to talk to some one in Engineering.

Maybe we will have to go with Richard's idea and see if that will work; I hope something will work as I hate the cannister type, a total discouraging task associated with oil/filter changes.

....and MESSY!!!!!!!!!!!!

Late ignition timing can cause hot exhaust valves because air fuel mixture is still burning as it passes the valve. Late closing exhaust valves caused by retarded cam or long duration exhaust valve timing reduces the time the exhaust valve is in contact with the seat which reduces heat transfer. The filter numbers are, I think are two of the three or four standard Ford older filters which have the same thread and sealing surface specs. What does the adapter you list adapt the Ford filters to? My guess would be 223/262 Ford sixes and Y Block V8s. These would not adapt to the flathead six block or top of the aluminum adapter that carries the stock cannister. I think of, but have not yet tried using a 460 Ford right angle filter adapter as used on 1983 Ford F250 pickups. Probably many other years use the same adapter which mounts on the screw on filter receptacle on the left front of the block and aims the filter toward the front to the engine in a direction roughly paralell with the crankshaft so that it will not hit the front cross member. I think this could be fitted to the flathead six aluminum adapter and held on by welding a hex plug on the appropriatly shortened center bolt of the six cylinder which threads into the flathead adapter. An appropriate gasket would be needed between the 460 and flathead adapters. I have not checked for clearance, but the 460 adapter can be rotated on the flathead adapter as appropriate

Well, I stopped by the machine shop yesterday, and the M-head has a crack (found via magna-flux), spark plug #5, I think it is. I had also taken a H-head in and it has been shaved slightly.; it will be substituted for the M, to increase compression from ~ 6.8 (original) to ~ 7.6. Will get a photo of the M- & H-heads side-by-side soon.

Machinist had to cut/torch the valves and valve guides to get the valves out.

M-Cam gear was/is seized to cam, and cam snub nose snapped off with the cam as it was pulled on. M-Cam is not reuseable; only as a reference. I hope to take the broken M & H cams to a cam grinder to determine if the assumed-original profiles are different or the same.

Parts have been hot-tanked.

Machinist is still very busy. Said he will call me.

One M & 2 H's are a lot to deal with. hehe

I'm following with interest your adventures in building Ford flathead 6s. Are you sure you have a good machinist? He seems to be breaking things. Are both the H and M cams broken? Next time clean the aluminum gear before attempting to pull it off the cam. They have an iron insert in the center with two bulges, one on each side. Sometiimes the bulges are drilled and tapped for a puller or if not they can be drilled and tapped before attempting to pull the gear. Fibre gears also have an insert which is drilled next to the cam nose to relieve the press fit and then taken off. When replacing the cam be aware that some 1947 H engines had a different number of teeth on the oil pump and distributor drive gear. There is a post about it somewhere in the flathead six posts. Also there are differences in the in the place where the drive nose on the cam meets the front journal. Some have an undercut groove, some have a 90 degree and some have a 45 degree tapered fillet, these need to have the cam gear chamfered so that the cam gear will sit in contact with the front journal. As to using an H head on an M block, you will need to use an M gasket so that the gasket will not overhang the cylinder bore. The M gasket overhangs into the combustion chamber about 1 8th inch in one spot for about 3 quarters of an inch. This will need to be fixed as you may not get a good seal and the unsupported bead of the gasket could act as a glow plug under full throttle conditions. This could cause backfiring through the carb. Placing the M gasket on the H head will reveal where this problem is. Some work with a knife prying up the bead and a Dremel grinder on the center part of the gasket should cure the problem. Again, thanks for keeping us up to date on your build.

I had stopped by there about 10 days ago and picked up the 51 H-motor, passenger (stuck), as the last H-motor (50 truck) that I bought was NOT stuck, thinking it might be a better rebuild candidate. 51 is still riding in the back of my truck; better get it out tomorrow.

The M looked like it had been subjected to perhaps months/years of sitting in the South TX sun & rain. Hopefully it can be resurrected. I'll know more when I speak with the machinist. He only commented that the pistons (some looked as if they had turned to powder) can't be reused, which I already knew, and did not speak to any other negative issues. So, there may be hope yet.

There is a possibility that I will focus only on the M for a while.

Thanks for your comments.