Ford 215 and Clifford headers

I did a search and didn't find the answer?
I have a 53 Mainline with the 215 inline and wanted to add headers. I tried a set of patriots and hacked them up so bad I don't think they will ever be used except as a reminder as what not to do!
I got a set of shorty headers from Clifford - 53-0030 "6=8 HEADERS" Ford 216-223-262 Car 1952-64



The 216 is a typo on their page.
The headers have been ceramic coated so there's no bending of the pipes.
As everybody knows the 52 and 53 have the front cross member but the info says 52 to 64 car- these are a two piece header with #4 cylinder being a slip fit.
My problem is that the front hits the cross-member right where the motor mount is - not too much of a problem - I could flip the motor mount to the front of the car and cut out and box in about 2 inches of the crossover.
The rear part of the headers hits the motor where the bell housing attachés, just inside of the clutch arm mount.
Would it be safe to cut an inch or two out of this part of the motor - from the bottom up?
Any other ideas?
The headers were bought a couple of years ago at a cost of over $500 and Clifford doesn't care - I could see them hitting the crossover but Clifford said they fit the 215 but they should hit the engine on all 215 - 223 and 262's
I would think the 53-0020 truck headers would fit better because they drop straight down in the middle of the engine.

Afraid I don't have much to offer but I, at least, wanted to let you know someone read your post!

I've installed a lot of headers (including full race tubes) but never on a 215-223-262. Sometimes chassis modifactions were required but never in such depth as you describe. I suspect those headers only fit 54-64 and there is a mistake in the catalog. That doesn't explain why it won't fit the engine. They should never hit the engine. Perhaps the photo is a clue. They appear to be mocked-up on the wrong side of the engine block!

I actually walked out to the shop to take a look at my engine (58 F-100 223c.i.) and I don't think the area you are describing is suitable for removal. That's where the lower bellhousing bolt goes through and weakening/removing that attachment point doesn't seem like a good option on an engine with only 4 attaching bolts to begin with. You would end up with no lower attachment at all on the left side. Despite the ceramic coating, I think the only option is to bend the headers. I'm not familiar with the ceramic coating but you may be able to have them re-coated after "re-shaping." Another thought, I'm not even sure it would fit but how about a spacer plate between the head and header?

Another option might be to sell those headers before you damage them and recoup some of your lost funds in favor of the truck headers which you seem pretty confident will fit. I would not buy them coated, just in case. I know Clifford hasn't been a big help to anyone lately but I guess when you're the only game in town you can afford to be arrogant. To be honest though, that situation affects us all. You buy something, it sits for a while before you get to install it, doesn't work (or fit), then the vendor doesn't want to know about it because so much time has elapsed. I just find it hard to believe that anyone would build a header that interferes with part of the engine block it's designed to fit on. What did they have to say about that?

Anyway, best of luck with it and keep us informed.

"73"
Lou Manglass
(NY4F)

Thanks manglass
Funny you should say they are on the wrong side of the block as shown because they are shown on the wrong side of a Chevy block! I'm going to get some time this weekend and get the car on the hoist and get a better look from the bottom - I don't mind cutting and boxing the cross-member but I'm shy about cutting into the block. All I got from Cliffofd is that somebody told them the headers fit the 215, which was only made for the 52 and 53 years,
and I don't see the difference in the 215 and the 223 except for the distributor location and that's on the right side of the engine.
I'll get some greasy pictures this weekend from under the car.
thanks again
Harry

You're right! I looked as far as the valley covers and stopped there. BTW, they're on the wrong side for a Chevy block too!!

Lou

Sorry to hear about the problems.. I had been thinking about headers for my '53 Customline - guess I won't be buying from Clifford!

Best of luck with the header deal.

-Bill

thecarfarmer":ocfkryy2 said:

Sorry to hear about the problems.. I had been thinking about headers for my '53 Customline - guess I won't be buying from Clifford!

Best of luck with the header deal.

-Bill

Click to expand...

I'd have them give you a guarantee before you brought the headers - the only other headers I've see for the 215 - 223 are made by patriot but they are for trucks and won't work on the 52 - 53 because the collectors end up right in the way of the pitman arm!

N8GNI":35uqi4nf said:

and I don't see the difference in the 215 and the 223 except for the distributor location and that's on the right side of the engine.
I'll get some greasy pictures this weekend from under the car.
thanks again
Harry

Click to expand...

Distributor location, Oil filter locat, Fuel pump locat, and Engine mount location. I've been through all this already....swaped the 215cid for 1964 223cid. I ended up buying header flanges on Erape...took a long time to find them too....Also the 215 valve cover will not fit on the 223 without modification (stock valve covers) I like the ribbed 215cid valve cover better than the 223cid

-Bill[/quote]

I'd have them give you a guarantee before you brought the headers - the only other headers I've see for the 215 - 223 are made by patriot but they are for trucks and won't work on the 52 - 53 because the collectors end up right in the way of the pitman arm![/quote]

Sacramento Vintage Ford also makes a Truck Header.

texas_rat_trap":1qqgtgpm said:

N8GNI":1qqgtgpm said:

and I don't see the difference in the 215 and the 223 except for the distributor location and that's on the right side of the engine.
I'll get some greasy pictures this weekend from under the car.
thanks again
Harry

Click to expand...

Distributor location, Oil filter locat, Fuel pump locat, and Engine mount location. I've been through all this already....swaped the 215cid for 1964 223cid. I ended up buying header flanges on Erape...took a long time to find them too....Also the 215 valve cover will not fit on the 223 without modification (stock valve covers) I like the ribbed 215cid valve cover better than the 223cid

Click to expand...

Distributor location, Oil filter location and, Fuel pump location are all on the right side of the engine and have nothing to do with the headers - The thing is that Clifford list the as "53-0030 "6=8 HEADERS" Ford 216-223-262 Car 1952-64 "
I know Ford didn't make a 216, must be a typo? In the description "Fittment: All 1952-64 Ford Cars 215/223/262 cid 2wd"

http://www.cliffordperformance.net/...de=CP&Product_Code=53-0030&Category_Code=F300

I understand the motor mount and cross-member is different as the 52 and 53 still had the Flathead V8 and 54 was the changeover. BUT the rear part of the header hits the motor casting where the bell-housing mounts. The Distributor location, Oil filter location and, Fuel pump location nor the valve-cover have anything to do with this problem?

The Patriot and Sacramento Vintage Ford are both truck headers like you said but I'm asking about the car headers.
Thanks
Harry

Look dude I was kindly throwing that info out there for some of the others that will probably be searching this page for info... You don't have to be a Jerk!....and you did say that you didn't see any difference btw. the 215 & 223 but the distributor location and that was on the right side. The only way your gonna get car headers to fit properly is like I said to buy or make the flanges & build your own or use the header flanges you have just cut the off and start fresh.

texas_rat_trap":19a3flu0 said:

Look dude I was kindly throwing that info out there for some of the others that will probably be searching this page for info... You don't have to be a Jerk!....and you did say that you didn't see any difference btw. the 215 & 223 but the distributor location and that was on the right side. The only way your gonna get car headers to fit properly is like I said to buy or make the flanges & build your own.

Click to expand...

Sorry - I wasn't meaning to sound like a jerk - sorry you took it that way.

I'm pretty sure the headers that Sacto vintage sells are the Patriot ones. They look identical in the pics on both websites/catalogs.

How bad are the headers you cut up? Could they be pieced back together? And I guess the less obvious question is how good are your fabrication skills? I don't mean that to sound trite or condescending, just trying to get a better idea of how you feel about putting them back together. But I think Texas rat trap is correct, you are probably going to end up fabbing your own headers or heavily modifying a set.

Did Clifford have anything else to say about their headers? Because if they're hitting on the bellhousing on a 215, then they are going to be hitting on every 215/223/262 block. I don't think there were any changes to the rear of the block casting through the years. The bellhousings are obviously different between the cars and trucks, but the shape of them where they bolt to the block didn't change.

On a semi-related note, I'm building my own set of headers and if you're not interested in your header "pile-o-parts", I might be interested in them for the mandrel bends. Might be less weld joints than buying a bunch of j-pipes.

Any updates on this or pics of them installed where the clearance issue is? Just curious because I'd like to install a set of headers on my 215 and Clifford seems to be the only game in town ...

Hi,
I'm new to this forum and I honestly hope this post doesn't start me off on the wrong foot. Although this original post and the exchange that followed, date back to 2009, because of the power of the Worldwide Web, when hot rod and Ford Six enthusiasts are looking for help with projects, they can't help stumble over negative posts about vendors. I don't consider myself anyone’s champion and I certainly don't have the right to judge anyone. My hope for this response is to add to some of the negative discussion about Clifford Performance Headers, a healthy dose of praise for their professional dealings with me as a new customer. Having run across this old post, i was concerned that doing business with Clifford might be a bad decision. I gave them a call and spoke with Larry Clifford and honestly couldn't have had a better conversation, and ended the call with a purchase of the Ford 53-0030 headers for my 54 Customline. I was looking for assurance that Larry would stand behind his product, and I am confident at this point that he will. I explained the content of this original post to Larry and I believe he was honestly surprised and hurt that someone had issues or concerns with Clifford's service. If the folks involved with the original post would give Larry a call, i am confident that if the issue still exists, it can be resolved with satisfaction. That is my humble opinion and I'm not trying to speak for anyone either at Clifford, or for members of this forum. I hope to develop good relationships and exchanges of information and opinions with many of the forum members. With that, I’ll fall of the podium and again, hope I haven’t rubbed anyone the wrong way.
Respectfully,
Ford54 - RonC

I have an old set of the Clifford 223 pickup dual out type that I was going to cut up and rebuild to fit a 54 Customline. Decided would keep looking for pair of the cast manifolds to keep it more of a 50's vintage look. It seems like Reds Headers might have made some for the 223's too but it's been a long time since hunted for any. Good luck hope they fit nice.

The answer for cast iron headers may be here.
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=696300
Check it out It sounds like he's ready to do a 50 piece run of Fenton style repros if there is enough interest.

I might be interested once he can tell us more but I'm not a member over there so please pass it along.

Lou Manglass