I have a '59 Ford with the 223. The negative battery cable is connected to one of the thermostat housing bolts. I want to relocate the cable to another part of the engine block. Does anyone know of another place preferably an unused threaded hole on the block? Thanks.
Place to bolt negative battery cable on a 223 block
- Thread starter bbskip
- Start date
Thanks for the reply but the best place to bolt the negative cable is to the engine block, the biggest current draw is the starter motor and you want the least amount of resistance in the circuit. That's why I want to bolt it to the block.
PS- just realized you have the F100. I have a car, the battery tray is up front near the headlight.
PS- just realized you have the F100. I have a car, the battery tray is up front near the headlight.
I think they work fine mounted on thermostat housing if its clean and tight. On my 223 in a 54 Customline (6 volt system) the positive cable is bolted to thermostat housing it works very good I also have a ground strap from starter bolt to firewall. If you wanted you could use a stud on front intake bolt to attach the ground cable or use one of motor mount bolts both would need a long cable to fit.
That's the problem I've been having and why I want to change the location. Ever since I replaced the cable I've had gasket leaks at the housing. I need to replace the gasket and figured while I'm at it let me relocate the cable to avoid any possible problems in the future.
bubba22349":oin6rkp7 said:
If you are just using a regular bolt then that may be the problem over tightening cuts the gasket and pushes it out. Look for a stud with hex head in the middle then it can still hold the battery cable too. Good luck 
Well, I found the answer to my question and maybe my problem too.
I started looking for pictures of the 223 block on the Internet. The car photos were of no help but looking at pictures of the F100 truck I noticed they use some sort of front engine mount with a sort of yoke pan that is bolted to the sides of the block at several locations near the front. I found an unused bolt hole a few inches to the right of the oil filter. It took a 3/8" bolt and after a few modifications I was able to bolt the negative cable right to it. First I only had a 1 1/4" bolt which was too long so I cut about a 1/4 " off with a Dremel tool. Then my 18" cable was too short but fortunately I had an old 24" cable lying around and I used that until I can pick up a new one.
As soon as I removed the bolt holding the cable from the thermostat housing water came pouring out. You shouldn't have to go through that just to change a battery cable so moving the cable is a good idea. Next step was to remove the housing, thermostat and old gasket material and install a new gasket and thermostat. Thinking to make things easier I did not remove the upper radiator hose and heater hose from the housing. I installed the new gasket and thermostat, bolted up the housing and when I went to add coolant it leaked like a sieve from the bottom of the housing.
I removed everything and rechecked the gasket surfaces to be sure they were clean and not scored. The only thing that bothered me was that when I was tightening up the old cable bolt it just didn't seem to snug up right which is something I noticed before when I tried to tighten the bolt when the cable was under it. I decided to run the bolts finger tight into the head. No problem with the lower bolt, I could feel it coming through on the inside of the head with my finger. Not so on the upper (old cable) bolt. Apparently rust and scale had built up on the portion of the threads that weren't being used. I used a case hardened bolt to open it up, tightening and loosening it back and forth until it cleared all the way into the head. Put everything back together and once again it leaked at the bottom.
This time I ran my finger down where it was leaking from and I felt something hard and thin there. It was the flange of the thermostat. Apparently it was slipping down out of it's recess in the housing when I was trying to line everything up and bolt it together. Everything looked snug at the top of the housing but it wasn't so at the bottom where you cannot see. OK, this time I remove all the hoses to make things easier to handle and I hold the thermostat in place with my finger inserted through the radiator hose inlet. Still leaked.
I took it apart again and noticed that there is really very little meat around the edges of the water holes in the housing. Years ago when you did work like this you always used a product called Indian Head gasket sealer. Messy, sticky, dried hard like a rock but it worked. Then as we moved into the 70's and 80's came new products that you could use without gaskets and gaskets that you weren't supposed to use sealers on. Well, my bad, I forgot that this is a 1959 automobile and I should use the old ways on it. Unfortunately I didn't have any gasket sealer. I did have some clear silicone seal though and any port in a storm so I used it not only on both sides of the gasket but to hold the thermostat in place too. Waited 20 minutes for it to set a little, poured the coolant in and no leak. Ran it for 15 minutes and no leak. Finally!
One of my favorite sayings is to never overlook the obvious. I should listen to myself more often. One more thing- the one thing I did do right on this job was to make sure I had several gaskets as backups. Gaskets are cheap. These were cheap but I think in more ways than one, they were thin and seemed more foam than fiber. I'm going to get some better ones and some gasket sealer in case this job doesn't hold and I have to redo it.
I started looking for pictures of the 223 block on the Internet. The car photos were of no help but looking at pictures of the F100 truck I noticed they use some sort of front engine mount with a sort of yoke pan that is bolted to the sides of the block at several locations near the front. I found an unused bolt hole a few inches to the right of the oil filter. It took a 3/8" bolt and after a few modifications I was able to bolt the negative cable right to it. First I only had a 1 1/4" bolt which was too long so I cut about a 1/4 " off with a Dremel tool. Then my 18" cable was too short but fortunately I had an old 24" cable lying around and I used that until I can pick up a new one.
As soon as I removed the bolt holding the cable from the thermostat housing water came pouring out. You shouldn't have to go through that just to change a battery cable so moving the cable is a good idea. Next step was to remove the housing, thermostat and old gasket material and install a new gasket and thermostat. Thinking to make things easier I did not remove the upper radiator hose and heater hose from the housing. I installed the new gasket and thermostat, bolted up the housing and when I went to add coolant it leaked like a sieve from the bottom of the housing.
I removed everything and rechecked the gasket surfaces to be sure they were clean and not scored. The only thing that bothered me was that when I was tightening up the old cable bolt it just didn't seem to snug up right which is something I noticed before when I tried to tighten the bolt when the cable was under it. I decided to run the bolts finger tight into the head. No problem with the lower bolt, I could feel it coming through on the inside of the head with my finger. Not so on the upper (old cable) bolt. Apparently rust and scale had built up on the portion of the threads that weren't being used. I used a case hardened bolt to open it up, tightening and loosening it back and forth until it cleared all the way into the head. Put everything back together and once again it leaked at the bottom.
This time I ran my finger down where it was leaking from and I felt something hard and thin there. It was the flange of the thermostat. Apparently it was slipping down out of it's recess in the housing when I was trying to line everything up and bolt it together. Everything looked snug at the top of the housing but it wasn't so at the bottom where you cannot see. OK, this time I remove all the hoses to make things easier to handle and I hold the thermostat in place with my finger inserted through the radiator hose inlet. Still leaked.
I took it apart again and noticed that there is really very little meat around the edges of the water holes in the housing. Years ago when you did work like this you always used a product called Indian Head gasket sealer. Messy, sticky, dried hard like a rock but it worked. Then as we moved into the 70's and 80's came new products that you could use without gaskets and gaskets that you weren't supposed to use sealers on. Well, my bad, I forgot that this is a 1959 automobile and I should use the old ways on it. Unfortunately I didn't have any gasket sealer. I did have some clear silicone seal though and any port in a storm so I used it not only on both sides of the gasket but to hold the thermostat in place too. Waited 20 minutes for it to set a little, poured the coolant in and no leak. Ran it for 15 minutes and no leak. Finally!
One of my favorite sayings is to never overlook the obvious. I should listen to myself more often. One more thing- the one thing I did do right on this job was to make sure I had several gaskets as backups. Gaskets are cheap. These were cheap but I think in more ways than one, they were thin and seemed more foam than fiber. I'm going to get some better ones and some gasket sealer in case this job doesn't hold and I have to redo it.
Yep working on these old cars and trucks can sometimes be trying glad you got it fixed 
glad you got it fixed Thanks. While I was at it I replaced the 180 thermostat with a 160. I'm hoping it helps the car run cooler when I do a parade. The car usually gets very close to overheating by the end of the route. I have had the block flushed, radiator rebuilt, and put on one of those semi-circle chrome shrouds but it still gets hot. No problem running or even idling, just parades. Maybe between the 160 thermostat and no more leak it may fix the problem. Next step will be a 6 blade fan.
Man, I couldn't believe the dirt under my fingernails and grease all over my tools. Haven't seen that in years!
Man, I couldn't believe the dirt under my fingernails and grease all over my tools. Haven't seen that in years!
bubba22349":2efs64bl said:Yep working on these old cars and trucks can sometimes be trying
I'm about a month away from starting the wiring on my '59 f100 with a 223. I intend to use a bell housing to block bolt for the neg cable. Nice short cable, close to the battery and about the coolest part of the engine compartment there is. While it may be a bear to replace (don't know yet), you shouldn't have to R&R your neg cable more than once every ten years or so. T-stat will likely need changed before that time.
What you say about having to change the thermostat is true but with my luck I'd rather not tempt fate. The new cable location is working well and eliminates a possible problem in the future. One more thing- Suggested to me by a friend was to use thread sealant on the housing bolts to eliminate the possibility of any seepage from the interior of the head along the bolt threads. Maybe not likely but one more possibility to eliminate. The problem would be the sealant might prevent or affect a good ground. Also in the case of a car the cable is not really connected to the block to which the starter motor is mounted. The cable is connected to the head making the starter motor circuit a little longer and subject to more resistance. Now it may be my imagination but it seems the starter is turning over a little quicker since I moved the cable to the block.
You could certainly connect the negative cable to the block/bellhousing bolt but if it turns out to be difficult to access you have the reverse option I had- bolt it to one of the unused car engine mount holes. As for heat I wouldn't worry about the battery cable as long as you have a proper size cable with a good connection. Heat will affect the windings in the starter motor before the cable but I've never heard of that being a problem with the 223.
You could certainly connect the negative cable to the block/bellhousing bolt but if it turns out to be difficult to access you have the reverse option I had- bolt it to one of the unused car engine mount holes. As for heat I wouldn't worry about the battery cable as long as you have a proper size cable with a good connection. Heat will affect the windings in the starter motor before the cable but I've never heard of that being a problem with the 223.
vntgtrk":9kok7jec said: