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H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

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johnrodz
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H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #1 by johnrodz » Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:09 pm

I'll try to keep this short so right to the point... I am undertaking a build for a XO/PP class truck for Bonneville in 2017 . I will be using the 223 or 262 ford L6 engine for power... I have started the research and development stage's for the engine and I find almost no information on these engines. I knew it wasn't going to be easy and that is all right as I love a challenge.. I read a post hear in the Vintage Ford Sixes titled 223 air flow numbers. and was wondering if there were more people that have had some performance experience with the 223/262 .My goal is to break the record for XO/PP with a 1971 ford unibody truck . I have been looking for a 262 without success and may wish to use the smaller 223 .I am a very experienced builder of most all brands of engines and have built many race winning combinations in various types of racing for over 50+ years .. But alas never this one.. SO I am doing a call out for any one who may have raced these bad boy sixes.. I am looking for info on the cylinder head port work and cam profile as I know this is where power is made . I also wanted to look at which of the heads that may be available that would have the smaller combustion chambers the one I have tested on the flow bench is week in flow numbers but comparable to the numbers found in the aforementioned post.. I want to know what head would be the better one to start out with . I have some general ideas for the engine but I really could use some guidance hear... HELP.... Thanks John

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bubba22349
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Sat Aug 01, 2015 10:32 pm

I used to race a 223 back in the late 1960's most of the info I have is very dated. :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

johnrodz
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Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:15 pm

Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #3 by johnrodz » Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:53 am

bubba22349 wrote:I used to race a 223 back in the late 1960's most of the info I have is very dated. :thumbup:


Thanks bubba, I appreciate your response. I would be interested in anything you know about the 223/262 engine. what year head has the smaller combustion chamber? will the crank from the 223 fit the 262 block ?..I'm looking for a bigger bore than stroke.. What is the diff between the 223 and 262 heads? Again Thanks for your reply Ill take whatever I can get as for info..John

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bubba22349
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Sun Aug 02, 2015 11:49 am

Ok I will see what I can find in my files.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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bubba22349
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #5 by bubba22349 » Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:34 pm

Ok here is some of the info I have from my files will add more as I find it sorry some of it has not been edited very well. Its from many years of collecting info and some from other site discussions. To answer one of your above questions the cranks will swap they have the same Main Bearing Size some of your other questions will be answered as you dig through the info except for the 262 heads don't know much for certain I planed on useing a 58 223 head on a 262 short block for a vintage Drag race engine build. Enjoy and I hope it is of some help and keep me posted on your build as you go, if you have any other question let me know. Good Luck

There are some parts that may interchange with the Y Block Fords like Valves, Springs, Retainers, Lifters, and the Rocker Shaft Bushings. The 1957 and up a few years (I think to 59 or so) 292 and 312 Ford and Mercury's Y Blocks stock had the biggest Intake and Exhaust valves plus Higher Ratio Rocker Arms you might check them out to see if they can be made to work.

Ford 215, 223, & 262 Sixes Stock Standard Bore and Stroke Specs

215 Block Std. + Str. Crank – 215 (3.560 x 3.60)

223 Block Std. + Str. Crank – 223 (3.625 x 3.60)

262 Block Std. + Str. Crank - 262 (3.718 x 4.03)

These are 223 engine bolt torque specs in foot pounds
Cylinder head 65-75
Intake Manifold 23-28
Exhaust manifold 23-28
Rocker Arm Shaft Brackets 45-55
Connecting Rods 45-50
Main Bearing Caps 95-105
Flywheel 75-85
Crank Pulley 85-94
Spark Plugs 15-20

223 Six Heads
The 223's valves were considerably offset to one side, which limited their diameter and the engine's breathing ability. The 429/460 Ford and engines like the Buick nailhead and V6 do this as well. Best as I can tell it was to induce 'tumble' into the airflow pattern within the cylinder. Heat is used to aid low end torque and fuel economy. Manifolding was also compromised some for hood clearance.

The later model 223 heads (After 1956) are of higher compression. The head from the 1958 'A' code engine may be the best for performance use its factory rated at 8.6:1 and appears to be the highest stock CR available. This engine was used in the Courier and the Fairlane and is rated at 145Hp. I have not had a chance to compare chamber CC's of the other late heads (1959 to 64) to see if there is much difference but they all seem to look about the same. I would probably not bother with the 1956 and older heads as it would take so much more work to get them up to spec. I have also not found much info on the 262 head port size and chamber shape or CC's

Head Theory

Curious from another post "Slightly off the subject, would offsetting the head toward the intake side on the block thereby getting the valves more over the cylinder and eliminating at least part of the ledge caused by the chamber overhanging the block deck help power output any?"

Curious if you meant this literally? Looking at Edwin’s site, the cross-section view, doesn't look like you'd be moving it much, maybe 1/4"-3/8"? Couldn't you get the same effect by grinding on the head? Looking at the stock head, the valve clearance recess area is shaped like an oval. It seems like it could be ground to more of a round shape, or more accurately a heart shape, with the bottom of the heart, (side where the sparkplug is) round, and the "v" part of the heart coming down between the 2 valves. If I could figure out how to post pictures of what I'm talking about, I would (but I can't) Jim

"Some new info
There are some brand new Aluminum Y Block V8 heads being made now for severial years that have this Hart shape chamber and they have good flow. It would nice if this chamber design could be used on a 223 / 262 block bet it would really help. Check them out on John Mummets Y Block parts site."

This is something like what I'm talking about. Most of the ledge on the plug side is because the recess is shaped sort of like an oval racetrack i.e. the long sides are parallel. You could use the head gasket as a pattern, to make that side more round, like the cylinder. Anyway, that’s what I was thinking....Jim

Now I see why it wouldn't work; The relief area doesn't need to be ground, it needs to be filled in! Duh! Other than moving the head over, as suggested earlier, I wonder if ya could mill about 1/2" off the deck of the head, then take a piece of 1/2" steel plate, and put the valve relief in it, in order to incorporate "modern" squish or 'soft head" techniques in these old 6 bangers. Or, cast a new head from scratch. To Bad …Jim

Actually, I was the one that suggested offsetting the head toward the intake side to reduce or eliminate the ledge caused by the combustion chamber hanging over the block deck. The ledge is in the highest intake flow area near the spark plug. These engines share that dreadful feature with the 292 series v8 engine. The cure was to grind a taper section from just above the top ring travel to the combustion chamber so that the air-fuel mixture leaving the valve on the spark plug side of the chamber didn't hit a right angle ledge formed by the combustion chamber. The problem with this cure was an increase in the size of the combustion chamber and it fouled up the shape too. Moving the head solves both of these problems if it could be done. I checked the web site you recommended but there were only 3 pictures, no 4th picture and it concerned swirl in the incoming fuel air mixture.

Cams

I have not heard of anyone ever trying to make a roller cam for these old sixes though the 215, 223, 262‘s do have solid tappet camshafts with Mushroom tappets which is just one notch below a Roller. Should be able to get a custom grind from several sources like Schneider or others to take advantage of the wider base of the Mushroom lifters

215 Cam
The 215 Six was rated at 101hp @ 3500 rpm (91hp @ 3400 for trucks). For its time it had a very hot cam, intake opens at 18*BTC and closes at 68*ATC with a duration of 276* and the exhaust open at 55* BBC and closes at 22*ATC with a duration of 267*

Note an after-market oil filter adapter was made for 215’s that allows the use of spin-on filters instead of cartridges

There was also a Zero lash Cam option for the 1961-63 223 see below

Ford Solid Lifter Interchange Numbers
The 223 Fords use an AT892, that would be a 216-1629, and maybe also used in the 215 & 262 Fords.

Zero lash Cam
Price comes from a Clevite price sheet EP6-10-01 dated August 6, 2001 List Prices the Jobber (Wholesale) Cost of $97.94. Ford Car & Truck Part no.229-1608 Cam is new, unused Clevite Performance Cam 223 1961-64 Notes: This cam is for “Zero Lashed Rock Arms (Cross Drilled).” This is a solid lifter cam using 213-1629 Clevite lifters or AT992 Sealed Power lifters. Clevite lists another cam for the Non-Zero Lashed. The Federal Mogul catalog does not list this cam and they note the cam they do list has 12 teeth on the distributor drive gear so this must be one way to tell which cam you have. This would be the cam for the non-12 tooth gear engine.

223 Crank numbers for 1954 to'60 223 CID Ford EBP, EBF.

Rockers
The rocker need to be adjusted on a regular basis see below too. Not much to choose from but There were some Baker Hi-lift rocker arms made back in the day sometimes you can still find new old stock. Y Blocks also had Hi Rato Rocker arms on the 57 up 292 and 312 never compared them if they will fit on the 223 yet. I am also thinking about the Roller Rockers that are made for the 200 small six possibly they could be adapted to a 223 rocker shaft.

What, you don't have a purpose-built special rocker adjustment tool?

On a Y-block, you can set the valves by setting to zero then backing off 90° (1/4 turn). Some wise guy figured the pitch on the adjusting screws and calculated that 1/4 turn comes to within a few tenths of .019". That's what I've done on mine, fast and accurate. Eliminates that groovy problem and renders ground up .019 feelers obsolete. I'm sure the same thing can be done on anything once the calculations are made. Might not wind up with something so easy as a 1/4 turn but whatever it is shouldn't be too hard to duplicate with practice.

262 Blocks
Made from 1961 to 1964 - (65 Industrial use) larger Bore 3.718 x Stroke 4.03.
Truck only motor 1961 to 64 C550 & C600 tilt cab trucks Door ID tag code B. In 1964 was used in the light trucks F-100, F-250, and F-350) Door ID tag code B: 1964 & 1965. In DIVCO trucks as the "G" series motor in Models 10-Sr, 40Sr, 40-D, 50-Sr, 50-E, 50-F, 70-Sr, 70-C, 70-D, 100-Sr, 200-Sr, 200-C, 206-C, 206-D. There are other possible industrial uses and some claim they were used in the F-500 & 600 N-500 & 600 trucks, B-500 & 600 Buses, but I cant verafiy those as origanal applications. According to 1961 Ford service Forum No 7 "Servicing the 262 Ford Truck Engine" this general info and pictures but not much in part numbers. Externally the 262 will have Dual Primary Belts from the Crankshaft to the Water pump & Generator, has a gear driven cam instead of the chain cam drive of the 215 or 223 light truck engines. The crankshaft gear is lubricated through a flat on the No. 1 camshaft bearing. The use of a Carter Fuel Pump that is mounted on the timing cover and driven by an eccentric on the timing gear (the blocks have a cast side fuel pump mounting boss, but it was blocked off). In 1964 the fuel pump location moved to the side of block, like a 223 and was driven by an eccentric off the cam. A water heated Spacer at the Base of the Carburetor was used to Prevent Icing. Had a Forged, rather than a Cast, Crankshaft. Equipped with a Positive Crankcase Ventilation system. The distributor is mounted on the right side of the block towards the front. There are 8 bolts holding down the valve cover, and came standard with a full flow oil filtration system. Probably the best external identification on a 262 block are the added ribs on the inside of the block and there are extra reinforcing ribs that run for and aft almost the entire length of the block to give added strength to the upper Crankcase area there are some massive ribs above pan rail too. The 223 blocks don’t have the added ribs so this makes a 262 block 20 pounds heavier than a 223. I have not been able to find block numbers for the 262 visually they will look similar to a 223 block. I have found some Distributor numbers for the 262 in 1961 the number is C1TF-12127C, 1962 is C1TF-12127D, 1963 is C2TF-12127A, and for 1964 was C4TF-12127D and a 1961 Carburetor number of C1TE-9510-AA.

262’s have timing gears instead of a chain system the gears can be used on the 215 and 223 engines

Extra info (from the Inliners site): - The Hollander exchange manual says the 262 were made from 1961 to 1964. It will replace a 215 or 223 by switching some parts depending what the motor is going into. 223 heads can be used on the 262, but different years use different temperature sending units. Also early 223 heads will have to have the head bolt holes in the head drilled out so the 1/2 inch head bolts can be used. Intakes interchange, as will exhaust manifolds, but check the header pipe size and location where it fits on the manifold. Rocker arms of all types interchange. Three types of connecting rods were used. Oil pans should interchange, but may have a larger capacity or a different sump location. I would pickup a Ford master parts catalog for more information. This series of motors were last produced in 1964, though info from truck manuals suggests that they were produced till 1965 for truck/industrial applications. These motors differ from most of the late Ford inline sixes in that the intake & exhaust are on the left driver's side as do the 215 & 223. There are several parts that will also interchange with the Y-block V8’s. The Jan 1996 12 Port news has a brief article on the 3 heavy truck engines: Chevy 261, Ford 262, and Mopar 265. It mentions that the Ford has an extra massive cast rib on the left side above the oil pan; 3.72 bore and 4.03 stroke; and full low oil filtration

The 262 has 20lbs more metal in the block, (than the 223); reinforcing ribs. And, timing gears instead of a chain and sprockets. 61-63 had forged cranks only, for 64 and 5 it was an option. So, overall they are a stronger motor than the 223. The standard Bore size is 3.718 with a Stroke of 4.03.To identify a 262 block the best way is to look for an extra massive cast rib on the left side above the oil pan. Also their are two fuel pump locations 1961 to 63 it is on the timing cover 1964 is in same location as a 223. The 215 & 223 blocks don’t have this cast rib also a smaller bore sizes of 3.56 and 3.625 with a stroke of 3.60.

262 Crankshafts
The 262 cranks from 61-63 (they are a forged crankshaft) and have a slightly longer neck area (3" long) compared to the '64 (2 7/16" long) model. Most of them have a C1TE6303H casting number. The '64 models have a forging number of C4TE6303C. I think that all of them are Forged Steel as opposed to Cast Iron. I am not aware of a different cast crank for the truck engine. The crank can be cut down to fit in a 215 or 223 see below bore and stroke Possibilities

The stock Connecting Rods used in 215, 223, 262, Engine Family
215 Rod is 6.260 long, the big end measures 2.4230 - 2.4238, small end is .9122
223 Rod is 6.250 long, the big end measures 2.4230 - 2.4238, small end is .9122
262 Rod is 5.156 long, the big end measures 2.4330 - 2.4238, small end is .9122

A few have also used the 300 six Rod in their 223 six, with its smaller Rod bearing an offset grind could gain a small stroke increase too.
300 six Rod is 6.297 long, the big end is 2.398, bearing size is 2.1236, small end on the 1965 to 69 Rod is .9122 1970 up is .975
240 six Rod is 6.747 long, the big end is 2.398, bearing size is 2.1236, small end on the 1965 to 69 Rod is .9122 1970 to 74 is .975
A few other stock Ford Rods that could work
250 six 4.1L Rod is 5.880 long, the end is 2.398, bearing size is 2.1236, small end is .9122
153 4 cylinder Rod 1986 to 91 2.5L HSC Taurus / Sable 5.990 long, E63E-B1A casting big end 2.398, bearing size 2.1236, small end .9122

Next we could also swap some of the custom aftermarket Connecting Rods being made for the other engine brands, haven't dug into this much yet but some of the small or big block Ford and Chxxxy Rods and maybe many others might be able to work.

Bore and Stroke Combination Possibilities: St. = Stock Stroke Crank
215 Block Std. + St. Crank – 215 (3.560 x 3.60)
215 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 219 (3.590 x 3.60)
215 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 222 (3.620 x 3.60)
215 Block .065 over + St. Crank – 228 (3.625 x 3.60) Std. 223 Bore Piston
215 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 228 (3.660 x 3.60)
215 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 230 (3.685 x 3.60)

215 Block Std. + St. Crank – 224 (3.560 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
215 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 228 (3.590 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
215 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 232 (3.620 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
215 Block .065 over + St. Crank – 232 (3.625 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank Std. 223 Bore Piston
215 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 237 (3.660 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
215 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 240 (3.685 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
215 Block .158 over + St. Crank – 244 (3.718 x 3.85) .150 Stroked Crank Std. 262 Bore Piston
215 Block Std. + St. Crank – 230 (3.560 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
215 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 234 (3.590 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
215 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 238 (3.620 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
215 Block .065 over + St. Crank – 238 (3.625 x 3.75) .250 Stroked Crank Std. 223 Bore Piston
215 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 243 (3.660 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
215 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 246 (3.685 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
215 Block .158 over + St. Crank – 251 (3.718 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank Std. 262 Bore Piston
215 Block Std. + 262 Crank – 241 (3.560 x 4.03)
215 Block .030 over + 262 Crank – 245 (3.590 x 4.03)
215 Block .060 over + 262 Crank – 249 (3.620 x 4.03)
215 Block .100 over + 262 Crank – 254 (3.660 x 4.03)
215 Block .125 over + 262 Crank – 258 (3.685 x 4.03)
215 Block .125 over + 262 Crank– 264 (3.685 x 4.128) .125 Stroked 262Crank
215 Block .125 over + 262 Crank – 272 (3.685 x 4.253) .250 Stroked 262Crank
223 Block Std. + St. Crank – 223 (3.625 x 3.60)
223 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 227 (3.655 x 3.60)
223 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 230 (3.685 x 3.60)
223 Block .093 over + St. Crank – 235 (3.718 x 3.60) Std. 262 Bore Piston
223 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 235 (3.725 x 3.60)
223 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 239 (3.750 x 3.60)
223 Block Std. + St. Crank – 232 (3.625 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
223 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 236 (3.655 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
223 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 240 (3.685 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
223 Block .093 over + St. Crank – 244 (3.718 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank Std. 262 Bore Piston
223 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 245 (3.725 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
223 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 249 (3.750 x 3.75) .150 Stroked Crank
223 Block Std. + St. Crank – 238 (3.625 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
223 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 242 (3.655 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
223 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 246 (3.685 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
223 Block .093 over + St. Crank – 251 (3.718 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank Std. 262 Bore Piston
223 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 252 (3.725 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
223 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 255 (3.750 x 3.85) .250 Stroked Crank
223 Block Std. + 262 Crank - 250 (3.625 x 4.03)
223 Block .030 over + 262 Crank – 254 (3.655 x 4.03)
223 Block .060 over + 262 Crank – 258 (3.685 x 4.03)
223 Block .100 over + 262 Crank – 264 (3.725 x 4.03)
223 Block .125 over + 262 Crank – 267 (3.750 x 4.03)
223 Block .125 over + 262 Crank– 274 (3.750 x 4.128) .125 Stroked Crank
223 Block .125 over + 262 Crank –282 (3.750 x 4.253) .250 Stroked Crank

262 Block Std. + 223 Crank - 235 (3.718 x 3.60)
262 Block Std. + St. Crank - 262 (3.718 x 4.03)
262 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 267 (3.748 x 4.03)
262 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 271 (3.778 x 4.03)
262 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 277 (3.818 x 4.03)
262 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 280 (3.843 x 4.03)
262 Block Std. + St. Crank– 269 (3.718 x 4.128) .125 stroked
262 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 273 (3.748 x 4.128) .125 stroked
262 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 278 (3.778 x 4.128) .125 stroked
262 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 284 (3.818 x 4.128) .125 stroked
262 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 287 (3.843 x 4.128) .125 stroked
262 Block Std. + St. Crank– 277 (3.718 x 4.253) .250 stroked
262 Block .030 over + St. Crank – 282 (3.748 x 4.253) .250 stroked
262 Block .060 over + St. Crank – 286 (3.778 x 4.253) .250 stroked
262 Block .100 over + St. Crank – 292 (3.818 x 4.253) .250 stroked
262 Block .125 over + St. Crank – 296 (3.843 x 4.253) .250 stroked

Ford 215, 223, and 262 Swap in a 300 Distributor
Duraspark II distributor from a 300 c.i. Ford can be adapted. The housing will fit the block, it requires a the 223 / 262 drive gear swap plus use the oil pump from a 1964 223 which uses the bigger 5/16 oil pump drive shaft or you can make a ¼ to 5/16 inch oil pump drive adapter by machining one end to ¼ inch. The difference between the two distributor shafts (223 / 300) diameters is about .064". You'll need to take it to a machine shop to have that much material removed, or you could also have the block drilled or reamed out to the bigger size. The shaft may have to be drilled for a larger coiled spring pin (roll pin) for the conversion. For a control box you could use anything from a stock Ford box, MSD, GM HEI, Mopar, etc. You will need to pick the right wiring connectors to match with the box you choose. There is also is a way to use the 1987 up Ford TFI coil when using the Mopar box.

For Point type Distributors (don't bother trying to use a 1965 to 67 240 / 300 Distribitors as they are still the LOD type, so no gain over the stock distribtor used on all 215, 223, 262's). Better is to use the 1968 up 240 or 300 point distributor or there were the old Mallory duel points that were pretty decent. Pertronix - Already mentioned above. Search within this forum for the part number or contact Pertronix as I have not seen the part number mentioned by application in their catalog. Open up the plugs to .045 and the system is fairly trouble free. MSD - A 5 or 6 Series MSD "box" can be added to a points ignition to reduce the current through the contacts so your points will last as long as the rubbing block does. Another faveriote of mine is to use the Mopar box works well and your points last about forever. Standard Motor Products also makes the LX809 "Optical Sensor Kit." it's "pricey" at $199.79 on Rock Auto. Couple of other things: the rotor, cap, condenser and vacuum advance from a load-a-matic 200 engine are the same as the ones on the 223 dizzy. Random thoughts wondering about the 200 DSII dizzy, or at least the guts? Would they be easier to swap the guts into a 223 dizzy would only need to compare the three dizzys to see what's possible.

Vintage Hot Rod Parts

Ford 215, 223, and 262, 6 Cyl. Offenhauser, Edmunds, and Fenton all made 2 x 1V Dual Carb Aluminum Intake’s
The Fenton Port size measures approx. 1 3/8" dia. These intakes were used with 2 Holley 1904's with straight linkage ie not progressive. Many old timers claimed to get even beter MPG with this set up, goes to show how under carbed these old sixes were! Some of those same company's also made a 3 x 1V intake too.

Clifford made a Ram Flow intake to use a 2V or 4V carb its one of the best performance intakes that was made for these old sixes. They also made a very nice set of headers for the 223’s they still may be made new you will have to contact them to see. Cliford currently has a duel 2V intake with Weber carb's good design but is a bit pricey I wonder if you can get the intake seperate then you could use a pair of Holley or Autolite / Motorctaft 2V carb's for even more performance. Other than that you could also make your own custom intake and headers fairly easy. I might have some pictures of these intakes and other parts.

C4 Trans for 223
In 1964, Ford supposedly made a C4 for the 223 (first year for the C4 (I have never seen one), this was also the last year for the 223). By the time the C6 came out (1966), the 223's were out of production. You could also look for a 1967 Cruise-o-Matic 3-speed auto or the later FMX. With some simple drilling mods the Cruise O Matic Or FMX will bolt up to the 223 Ford O Matic bell housings, use a good Trans Go shift Kit in a CruseO or FMX. The Ford O Matic and Cruise O Matic were available almost the entire time the 215/223/262 was in production. There are also a few aftermarket sources too adapt several of the newer Ford Auto trans from C4 and up to an AOD

Ford 223 T5 Swap also onto 262, or the Y Blocks go to the website http://www.ford-y-block.com/truckt5.htm you will find that they sell a bell housing for the 223 f100 to mate to the t5 tranny or they will mod your bell. They also used to offer some other 223 rebuild parts and a Cam regrinding service.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

johnrodz
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #6 by johnrodz » Tue Aug 04, 2015 3:02 pm

OH MY!! Thank you bubba for the time to post all that information. it is immensely helpful and important to the task I am undertaking for the build of this engine ..I can not thank you enough for your generosity . Sincerely, John Mullen

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bubba22349
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:18 pm

Great glad it might be of some help, good luck on your build! :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #8 by johnrodz » Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:51 pm

Bubba,
Hear is what I have so far. Clifford early 4v manifold that is race only. A 450 / 600 ?? cfm Holley custom 4 corner idel double pumper w/ mechanical secondary full on race carb. a set of patriot 1.750 dia. race only headers. a late 223 small chamber head that I will port and deck. A 262 block bored .080 with 3/4 grouted block. A custom set of aluminum rods and pistons. 1.850 intake valves 1.550 exhaust valves. a cam not yet configured but somewhere near .500 lift with something around 230 to 240 @.050 dur. 108 CL. 14.0 compression 8" dia NASCAR style clutch assembly w/multi disc mounted on a ford flex plate for the onboard starter. . Oberg filter and dry sump oil system. A good crank scraper. A crank trigger w/MSD Box and hot coil. cold air induction with water injection. + a full balanced rotating assembly. no belt driven cooling /charging systems.. a/c driven units for cooling and fuel delivery. 8" ford rear and t5 tranny. Synthetic fluids throughout. With some serious tuning on the dyno I am hoping for aroung 330 HP at 5800 RPM
What would you change if you were building the engine for the salt flat challenge . Just curious to see what you think

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 1:00 am

:hmmm: John, sounds like some really great parts for that combo and will work excellent together! Off the top of my head can't think of any thing unless you could maybe squeeze in a little more cam lift (.050 to .075) with that much duration. However I don't have any experience with Salt Flat engine combos, all my racing and performance engine building was for 1/4 mile Drag Racing or for Performance street cars. :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #10 by johnrodz » Wed Aug 05, 2015 9:15 am

Bubba,
My cam lift is something that is not yet a positive. on the stock head the air flow slows dramatically around .440 and only gains 2 to 3 CFM from there up to .500. I am hope to see that change with port work. ... have you done port work to your engines yourself or have you had it done? Just wondering what to expect after porting ...

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:11 am

Yes do my own porting work nothing so far on those early sixes mostly on the Ford FE's, SBF, 351C V8's and some other brands. Since you have use of a flow bench you will be better able to dial it in to what that old 223 / 262 combo likes. My best guess is with work in the valve bowls, narrowing or the removing of the protruding valve guide, raising the port roof and opening up the sides of port some should make a quite a difference. I have also wondered about angle milling the head to raise the intake ports a little and tighten the combustion chamber some that would also angle the vales away from cylinder some. My plan for mine was to build a tunnel ram type intake also. I Do think that 262 will push your old 61 Uni right along they are fairly smooth body's (they are a real Favorite of mine too). There were a couple guys on this site have did some work on those 223 heads for racing projects. Was looking for the 262 block and parts for quite awhile and having no luck, shelved that idea until a later time that was quite a number of years ago. I then decided to go with a 300 Ford so started collecting all the parts to build one for my Drag project. Then about two years ago we moved from SoCal area to Flagstaff, regretfully due to Health and time issues I lost my engine cores, and most all of the parts collected over many years, some of my tools, and equipment that were stored at a friends shop. Good thing is that I do have a nice shop here though and my health has improved quite a bit. But the bad is that will have to basically start over again, that is after I first get finished with the rest of house remodeling projects that I have been doing. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #12 by johnrodz » Wed Aug 05, 2015 5:58 pm

I'm glad to hear your health is improving .. that is the most important thing... Tools and things can be replaced . I have family that live east of you in Grants New Mexico. I love that area where you live. anyway thank you for your generous help ...

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #13 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:05 pm

Yeah it's great here And think it had been very good for my health and well being much less of a rat race here, time well tell. Good luck on the build and hope you post a Video of it running one day. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #14 by flatford6 » Fri Aug 14, 2015 3:20 am

Sounds like your build is well thought out johnrodz. I have a 262 that is for sale. It is together and complete except for the carb and has the water heated carb spacer, dual groove pulley, and fuel pump on the timing gear cover. No idea of its condition. Pm me for details. Questions: What are the cubic inch breaks in the class you want to run. Can you get close to but just under one of the break limits? Have you investigated offsetting the head to get the valves more centered over the bores and away from the ledge at the top of the bores. I think there is considerable power to be achieved by this. I think sinking the valves into the head about 3/16 inch into the head and tapering the area around the valves at a 30 degree angle into the chamber as is being done on all the after market racing heads should be investigated and also the effect of a vane left leading up to the intake guide hole or away from the exhaust guide hole. Possibly the guide holes could be bushed smaller to allow smaller valve stems for lighter weight and also to use the brand c (yikes) tapered valve springs and corresponding caps and locks. I would like to talk to you about this some time. Hope to hear from you. Richard

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #15 by johnrodz » Sat Aug 15, 2015 11:15 pm

flatford6, I am glad to hear from you as I was hoping you would chime in hear. I am interested to see (1) if you would sell your 262 and (2) how much would you want for it. I would love to talk to you about your take on moving the head over and what you think along the lines of max bore dia.. If you would pm me your phone number and a good time to call I would like to bench race a while with you. thanks for your reply and I will keep an eye out for a pm.. John

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #16 by Sk1nnersix » Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:05 pm

Hi Bubba thanks for being so generous with ford six information. I have a 262 cid in my 1962 f100. It's a fine example and in touched. Has 110k miles. My grand father bought this new and then in 1976 I became the owner. Been sitting for 20 years an now have it running again but I want to rebuild it to like new condition. Pistons are hard to find ....although I found a set .60 over and seems excessive ....Engine not apart so do not know if I even need to bore or if a hone job would do. So Should I buy this set or can you direct me to a source that may have say .20 or .30 over piston set? Thank you in advance for your advice and any recommendations you may have.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #17 by bubba22349 » Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:00 pm

:hmmm: For stock or mild rebuild there are still a few places. First one to try is Egge Machine Company located in Santa Fe, Ca. (https://egge.com) They are a foundry and make new pistions for lots of the antique and older engines that are hard to find, sometimes it's best to call unless your locale to that area. My dad and I used their parts many times over the years that we were restoring old Ford Model A's, they have been in business since 1915 and are an excellent source for the older engine parts.

Those .060 over pistons might be good (brand), and if they been stored safely but it really all depends on the condition of your engine block. I would wait until you have it tore down, usually on the first rebuild a .030 over easily cleans up the cylinders of those blocks, they do have thick cylinder walls so .060 or even more will also work. Today though I like to keep the cylinder walls as thick as possible for a number reasons like better cooling and also since those 262 blocks are getting really hard to find.

If you plan a more hi performance build then you can also have Forged Pistons custom made by quite a number of companies. AutoTec is very reasonable for the quality and choices that they offer for the price as well as fairly quick supply time (http://racetecpistons.com/pages/autotec.php) So it all depends on your plans for the engine build up. Good luck on your build :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #18 by tom954x4 » Wed Dec 09, 2015 2:21 pm

to the original poster - "Colonel Flashman" built a 223 for power and there is a ton of information on his engine over at Ford Truck Enthusiasts
e.g.,
http://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/10112 ... mance.html

As he posts in that thread one main goal is to make the engine breathe better, e.g. with an aftermarket intake.
1995 F-150 XL, 300-6, 4x4, ex-cab, sb, 3.08 5-speed, 2 1/2 in. exhaust w/flowmaster 50, MSDignition failed with no warning, now out, canopy, 179,000 + miles. Gone but not forgotten 1965 F-100 240 3spd lwb "the green hornet"; 1960 F-250 4x4, 223 six, 4sp with wrap-around rear window, two-tone paint, overhead camper.
Tow vehicle: 2012 F-250 4x4 6.7 diesel XLT s/c lwb

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #19 by 61 UNI » Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:17 am

I have a 262 that I am wrapping up..maybe.. so far it's been resealed, duraspark converted with MSD bax, new stock cam. It's been bored .030. the cyl walls aren't great. Thinking about boring. Anyone know of where to get pistons for these things? Can pistons be converted from another make? Also what are stroking options? Would be nice to bore and stroke to 296ci but not if it's gonna be stuck on a pallet for another 2 years. It's been a real chore building it to this point sourcing parts and custom machine work. Also all my reference material lists the #6 rocker support being the oil feed but my motor feeds to the #4 and dumps at #1. Is this normal? I thought about using add on lube kit but my oil pressure is great 50 hot 70 cold and don't really want the ugly tube running through my valve cover. Also any way to identify rocker arms to know which are high lift I picked up a new set and they came on what I believe is an early shaft so I think they are 215. Side to side the are same length as my original but have diffent casting numbers. I know the high lift is just a few extra thousanths so I don't know if eyeballing them is adequate. I'm gonna a use them anyway because they do fit just like to know my numbers. Thanks!!
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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #20 by bubba22349 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:03 pm

61 UNI wrote:"I have a 262 that I am wrapping up..maybe.. so far it's been resealed, duraspark converted with MSD bax, new stock cam. It's been bored .030. the cyl walls aren't great. Thinking about boring. Anyone know of where to get pistons for these things?"

1. Pistions are available from a number of sources see my above post #17.

"Can pistons be converted from another make?"

2. Yes sure it would take you doing some research in the different pistion catalogs to see what is close to the specs you need or want.

"Also what are stroking options?"

3. These are all listed in my above post #5. A 262 already has the longest stroke of any of the Ford 215, 223, 262 engine family, so to get more you would need to have the crank welded and offset ground and or use custom rods with a smaller Rod bearing size so crank can be off set ground.

"Would be nice to bore and stroke to 296ci but not if it's gonna be stuck on a pallet for another 2 years. It's been a real chore building it to this point sourcing parts and custom machine work."

4. Though it can take longer sorce parts and to rebuild these old vintage motors compared to other popular engines. I really can't see a reason that it should take two years.

"Also all my reference material lists the #6 rocker support being the oil feed but my motor feeds to the #4 and dumps at #1. Is this normal? I thought about using add on lube kit but my oil pressure is great 50 hot 70 cold and don't really want the ugly tube running through my valve cover."

5. In this day and age I wouldn't use one the external rocker oiling systems ever period! It was just a crutch used back in the day to keep old cars and trucks operating with out a tear down. Back then some oils (had lots of ash content) this plus, more Maintance, plus the lack of a good PCV system (Road Draft Tubes were used pre the PCV system) these combined to produced lots of sludge inside the engine which led to rocker arm oiling problems. Match up the rocker arm oiling ports on your 262 rocker assembly in comparison to the new 215.? rocker assembly if they are the same use it as is if not transfer the rocker arms to the 262 shaft assembly. By the way there were some Hi Lift rocker arms made by Barker for the 223 engines sometimes you can still find new sets listed on eBay. Another possable sorce for higher lifte rocker arms is Rocker Arms Unlimted. http://www.rockerarms.com

"Also any way to identify rocker arms to know which are high lift I picked up a new set and they came on what I believe is an early shaft so I think they are 215. Side to side the are same length as my original but have diffent casting numbers. I know the high lift is just a few extra thousanths so I don't know if eyeballing them is adequate."

6. Only way to know for sure when the engine is fully assembled is to remove the valve cover set up a dial indicator and measure the lift at the valve. After you have that info install the other set and measure them to see how much if any they are different. If the rocher shafts and rocker bushings are worn this extra clearance will also reduce your valve lift at the valves.

"I'm gonna a use them anyway because they do fit just like to know my numbers. Thanks!!"


What are your goals or purpose and budget you have for the 262 build? Looks like it's mostly the stock parts like intake and exhaust, shown in your pictures. Good luck on your 262 build :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #21 by 61 UNI » Sat Apr 21, 2018 12:04 pm

My goal for the engine is reliability. I have converted to modern ignition, gm alternator over generator, new clutch, mid 80s carter yfa w/electric choke over funky but finicky 1904. The engine runs so well on the stand and starts instantly even with old school inertia (slow) starter. That Carter couldn't be a better match for this engine. My original goal with the engine was just to replace broken exhaust manifold and replace damaged camshaft and be able to run mechanical fuel pump again but that was before I found it to be a 262 and I couldn't fine a cam with pump lobe anyway. So it's still going to run electric pump for now.
I toyed with running dual carbs setups but really don't want to use 1904s. I have several of them and I know them pretty well, well enough to keep them off of my RELIABLE build.
Clifford would be nice except they are very proud of that Damned Weber. $$$. I don't need a hotrod out of this truck I have a fast cars to drive on fast car days.
My aim is for honest and reliable.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #22 by bubba22349 » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:59 pm

Stock these engine very reliable and strong of corse after all these years of use the stock carbs and distributors are usually very worn out so the upgraded parts you used are an excellent mod. For your stated purposes forget the big Hot Rod 296 combo with its extreme over boring and stroking, just go with a minimum clean up over bore .040 to .060 and keep the cylinder walls as thick as possible.

You could get a 1964 262 cam (only year the 262 was used in the smaller pickups) or use a 223 cam if you really need to use a mechanical fuel pump. A pair of 1V carbs works very well on these sixes and still retains good economy as good or better then the single 1V carb because of better fuel distribution. A small single 2V carb could also work. Good luck you have a great start on the 262. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: H.P. engine build 223/262 L 6

Post #23 by EastbayEffer » Sun Nov 11, 2018 10:35 am

I’m rebuilding a 262 now. Finding parts is challenging. A couple things I’ve found here for anyone that may come along. United Engines in Nevada has a Silv-O-Lite brand of pistons for 223. But not for 262. RaceTec/AutoTec in southern Cal forges pistons to your spec for about 2x what you’d pay for off the shelf stock. Egge Machine can build pistons as well. Cardone can rebuild water pump. I found a new ring gear thru Al Sueing in Wisconsin.

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