Timing sets

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85FordI6Wyoming
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Timing sets

Post #1 by 85FordI6Wyoming » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:16 pm

So I have an 85 f150 straight 6. Looking to do a steel set of timing gears. I've heard that the factory crank gear was retared 4 degrees from the factory to reduce cylinder pressure, which reduces nox in the tailpipe. If I bought a timing set for a 1965 f100 straight 6 I should get steel gears and it should be old enough that the crank gear is clocked at 0 degrees right? I know you can buy the timing set that is clocked at 0, +4, and -4, but I just want mine clocked at 0 and the 1965 timing kit is like half the price of the aftermarket set. Anybody know if the 65 timing set would be clocked at 0?
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Re: Timing sets

Post #2 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Mar 06, 2018 8:11 pm

I think it is built into the cam; ergo, you will still be 4* retarded.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #3 by pmuller9 » Tue Mar 06, 2018 11:08 pm

According to several that have tried to purchase the Cloyes 8-1014 timing gear set with multi keyways, it is not available.
You will need to use the Mr Gasket 987G offset key on the cam gear to advance the cam 4 degrees.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #4 by WorldChampGramp » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:27 pm

Relief is only a few months away. I will soon be offering matched sets of timing gears [alum cam & steel crank] with gearsets in both 2,4 and 3,6 degree advance increments. Target price is $100 + nominal shipping cost. Any Interest? Gramps

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Re: Timing sets

Post #5 by Speedthrills » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:09 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote:Relief is only a few months away. I will soon be offering matched sets of timing gears [alum cam & steel crank] with gearsets in both 2,4 and 3,6 degree advance increments. Target price is $100 + nominal shipping cost. Any Interest? Gramps
I'd like to advance the cam in my 95 300 some time.
I'm curious: is there an advantage to replacing the gears if all that is needed is a key?

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Re: Timing sets

Post #6 by CNC-Dude » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:30 pm

Using an offset key is not the most desirable method to advance/retard camshafts. You narrow the cross sectional strength of the key and it requires much less stress to shear it compared to a key that is full width. You may be ok for stock engines, but in performance apps where you have increased spring pressures, you are much safer by using a multi keyway crank gear timing set such as a Cloyes 8-1014. They are only $100, and the most premium quality timing set available for the 240/300 engines, past or present.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 9:48 pm

Speedthrills wrote:I'm curious: is there an advantage to replacing the gears if all that is needed is a key?

When you pull your timing cover and find that the cam timing gear is fiber, you will want to replace it with a metal gear set.

The offset key only fits the cam gear which is a very tight press fit.
Once a multi-keyway gear set is installed, timing changes only involve the crank gear which slides off by hand or by using minor type persuaders.
Much easier than dealing with the cam gear.

Offset keys are only available in 4 and 8 degree changes and the Cloyes gear set only allows 4 degrees advance or retard. This new set of gears allows 2 degree timing changes for those that are trying to degree in an aftermarket cam. I really could have used a 6 degree advance last engine build.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Wed Mar 14, 2018 10:01 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote:Relief is only a few months away. I will soon be offering matched sets of timing gears [alum cam & steel crank] with gearsets in both 2,4 and 3,6 degree advance increments. Target price is $100 + nominal shipping cost. Any Interest? Gramps


That's great news Gramps and the aluminum cam & steel crank gear set are my favorite! :thumbup: :nod:
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Re: Timing sets

Post #9 by WorldChampGramp » Thu Mar 15, 2018 3:28 am

bubba22349 wrote:
WorldChampGramp wrote:Relief is only a few months away. I will soon be offering matched sets of timing gears [alum cam & steel crank] with gearsets in both 2,4 and 3,6 degree advance increments. Target price is $100 + nominal shipping cost. Any Interest? Gramps


That's great news Gramps and the aluminum cam & steel crank gear set are my favorite! :thumbup: :nod:


UPDATE: Had planning meeting with the principals involved in our Joint U-Head and Aluminum cross flow projects.
We decided unanimously to revise our offering of a matched set for a number of reasons. Primarily B/C not everyone would like our choice of Gear Sets to modify e.g. Cloyes, Mahle/Clevite, Sealed Power, Melling etc.

So we decided to have all our customers to buy whatever they wish, ship ONLY the crank gear to us, we will process on the 4-axis mill, return to sender and the rest “will be history”.

Using this methodology appears to be the best of ALL worlds and keeps inventory stocking, shipping costs and overall hassle to acceptable minimums. Your thoughts are welcomed. Gramps :idea:

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Re: Timing sets

Post #10 by brandoncw » Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:20 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote:
UPDATE: Had planning meeting with the principals involved in our Joint U-Head and Aluminum cross flow projects.
We decided unanimously to revise our offering of a matched set for a number of reasons. Primarily B/C not everyone would like our choice of Gear Sets to modify e.g. Cloyes, Mahle/Clevite, Sealed Power, Melling etc.

So we decided to have all our customers to buy whatever they wish, ship ONLY the crank gear to us, we will process on the 4-axis mill, return to sender and the rest “will be history”.

Using this methodology appears to be the best of ALL worlds and keeps inventory stocking, shipping costs and overall hassle to acceptable minimums. Your thoughts are welcomed. Gramps :idea:

I would be very interested depending on price, i want to do that mod and have a good crank gear lying around with no use as of now.

And for ease of intallation, would you be able to drill the little timing mark like the stock one to make it easier to know what tooth to line it up with?
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Re: Timing sets

Post #11 by CNC-Dude » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:33 pm

You still align the gears dot to dot using the stock timing mark, the crank is actually rotated depending on which keyway slot you use and the crank position is moved by xxxx degrees relative to the gear position.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #12 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:48 pm

brandoncw wrote:And for ease of intallation, would you be able to drill the little timing mark like the stock one to make it easier to know what tooth to line it up with?

Yes. The single dot would be the original stock postion and there would also be a single dot on the original slot.
A number could be scribed on the new corresponding tooth and slot positions.

How many timing postions do you want?
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #13 by wsa111 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 9:52 pm

I would install an aftermarket camshaft with modern profiles.
Still remember to degree in whatever camshaft you run or install, want more low end advance it 2-4 degrees.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #14 by brandoncw » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:15 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
brandoncw wrote:And for ease of intallation, would you be able to drill the little timing mark like the stock one to make it easier to know what tooth to line it up with?

Yes. The single dot would be the original stock postion and there would also be a single dot on the original slot.
A number could be scribed on the new corresponding tooth and slot positions.

How many timing postions do you want?
CNC-Dude wrote:You still align the gears dot to dot using the stock timing mark, the crank is actually rotated depending on which keyway slot you use and the crank position is moved by xxxx degrees relative to the gear position.

Oh i didnt take into account the fact that the crank turns at a 4:1 ratio with the cam so when i looked at the gear sets it confused me.

And id only want one key at 4* advanced to bring cam straight up ( i think i have that right?)

Before i get too involved in it though, ive read in several places that the EFI 300s benefit the most from advancing cam 4*. They suposedly suffer from weak near idle speed torque while the carbed 300s dont have that issue. Is this true?

Ps. Correction 2:1 ratio, i knew that but then second guessed myself. My inexperience is showing :lol:
Last edited by brandoncw on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:33 pm

The cam turns half the speed of the crank.
There will be two different teeth marked on the crank gear corresponding to two different slots for the key.
The original tooth that is marked with a dot and the new 4 degree advanced tooth possibly scribed with a 4 and the corresponding keyway also marked with a 4.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #16 by brandoncw » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:35 pm

pmuller9 wrote:There will be two different teeth marked on the crank gear corresponding to two different slots for the key.


Can you expand on that? I only seen one slot and one dot on the crank gear.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #17 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:42 pm

If you send us the new crank gear to cut a 4 degree advanced keyway, we will mark a different tooth that will correspond to the new keyway that gets cut for the 4 degree advanced position.
That will be the tooth that lines up with the dot on the cam gear when you use the new keyway.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #18 by brandoncw » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:44 pm

pmuller9 wrote:If you send us the crank gear to cut a 4 degree advanced keyway, we will mark a different tooth that will correspond the new keyway that gets cut for the 4 degree advanced position.
The will be the tooth that lines up with the dot on the cam gear when you use the new keyway.

Ok cool, if you guys come up with an estimate, ill definitely consider sending mine in :thumbup: :nod:
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Re: Timing sets

Post #19 by WorldChampGramp » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:30 am

brandoncw wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:If you send us the crank gear to cut a 4 degree advanced keyway, we will mark a different tooth that will correspond the new keyway that gets cut for the 4 degree advanced position.
The will be the tooth that lines up with the dot on the cam gear when you use the new keyway.

Ok cool, if you guys come up with an estimate, ill definitely consider sending mine in :thumbup: :nod:


Gramps responds:

Our customers will be sending us THEIR steel crank gear for modification. I agree with the forum input from CNC Dude & PMuller above on NOT going the offset cam gear key route for all the reasons stated. HOWEVER, My Research and our Vendors confirm CLOYES has discontinued production of the popular 8-1014 gear sets with 58-tooth aluminum cam/29-tooth steel multi-indexed crank gear. This is the only reason I have pursued and plan to offer the bottom steel crank gear in precisely machined choices of Degree Advance from a “straight up” alternative. Here is the Cloyes Link, click on the discontinued HP items tab. http://www.cloyes.com/partslookup.html . We believe anyone doing a new or rebuild Our New Offering is a logical choice.

Important Update>>> the all-out New u-head with several manifold choices PLUS the ready to go out- of- the- box Aluminum Cross Flow Head have moved off the proverbial drawing board and are in the prototype pre-production fabrication machining stage. Work harder Gramps :bang:

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Re: Timing sets

Post #20 by Wesman07 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:40 am

Woo hoo!
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Re: Timing sets

Post #21 by arse_sidewards » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:43 am

Focus your efforts on more unique and useful things (the head). You have enough on your plate.

Timing is a mostly solved problem. Metal gear sets are available. Offset keys are available for those who need to adjust timing. Between offset keys and advancing/retarding the timing by one tooth there's more than enough adjustment meet anyone's needs. Those who are uncomfortable with an offset key can use adhesives (Loctite green should be suitable, don't forget to put the retainer plate on first) and/or or dimple the heck out of the ID of the gear for more interference (knurling the cam or gear on a lathe would be better but I don't think the cam is soft enough for that and knurling a small ID to an appreciable depth is a difficult machining operation).

Anyone who is greatly limited by the existing timing options can use straight cut gears in a common pitch that any machine shop can cut. If you've gotten to that point the fact that there isn't a $100 timing set that does what you need and you need to make a custom one isn't an issue.

Timing sets are not a problem on the 300, they're one of its strengths.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #22 by pmuller9 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 11:00 am

arse_sidewards wrote:Focus your efforts on more unique and useful things (the head). You have enough on your plate.


It's not like that.
This development program involves at least 3 engine builds with dyno results and we need this particular service as well as others to accomplish the builds.
We figure that as we set up for individual processes why not make that service available to everyone else.

Right now the only timing option is 4 or 8 degrees using the offset keys. Tooth spacing is 12.4 degrees.
There are times when a person needs something else and we want to offer a service where you send us your crank gear and specify what timing you want, we cut the keyway to that spec and send it back. Additional keyways can be done for slightly more cost.
I needed six degrees advance on the last build but had to settle for four instead. :(

Everyone's feedback or questions is important to us.
There have already been things posted that have triggered the :idea: and helped towards finalizing a particular piece of this project.
Keep it coming.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #23 by CNC-Dude » Fri Mar 16, 2018 4:45 pm

arse_sidewards wrote:Focus your efforts on more unique and useful things (the head).


Any attention spent on products and services are useful and needful, even though these particular things may not be to you. These grassroots items are going to far outsell the cylinder head by a long shot. Many guys rebuilding these engines will spend money for cam kits and timing sets before they will spend $500 or more just for a cylinder head.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #24 by Wesman07 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:04 pm

If your going to make one, make a small batch. People will need them. It will help keep cost down, and profit in your pocket. How big that batch is, is up to your discretion
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Re: Timing sets

Post #25 by BigBlue94 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 6:31 pm

Oddly both my cam and crank gears were steel (or iron, a magnet stuck to both). Was an unknown reman E5TE block. They are at the machine shop so I can't get any numbers off them.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #26 by pmuller9 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:20 pm

Wesman07 wrote:If your going to make one, make a small batch. People will need them. It will help keep cost down, and profit in your pocket. How big that batch is, is up to your discretion

The way it works is you send us just your crankshaft timing gear, tell us how many degrees you want the gear to advance (or retard), we cut a single keyway to that spec and send it back. If you want more that one keyway it will be a little extra for each keyway.
This way a person can have exactly what they need to install the cam at the correct timing.

The object is not to have to mess with the cam gear.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #27 by Wesman07 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:39 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
Wesman07 wrote:If your going to make one, make a small batch. People will need them. It will help keep cost down, and profit in your pocket. How big that batch is, is up to your discretion

The way it works is you send us just your crankshaft timing gear, tell us how many degrees you want the gear to advance (or retard), we cut a single keyway to that spec and send it back. If you want more that one keyway it will be a little extra for each keyway.
This way a person can have exactly what they need to install the cam at the correct timing.

The object is not to have to mess with the cam gear.


So the non adjustable gear sets are still available?
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Re: Timing sets

Post #28 by WorldChampGramp » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:10 pm

Great Feedback and thanks to PMuller9 for explaining clearly what our overall objectives are. FYI the target price for processing one customer supplied crank gear with (2) additional machined keyway slots (clearly marked) including an install instruction sheet will be in the $45 range. Additional keyslots can be cut for $7.50 each which will increase the base 2-slot price to $52.50 for a 3-keyway customer gear, $60 for 4 with a maximum 5 new keyway slots for a modest total price of $60. Minimum Shipping costs have been resolved by using the small USPS priority mail box (approx $6) both ways. All our return processed customer gear packaging will be in the rugged USPS small priority mail "freebe". :thumbup: Enjoy your weekend. Gramps

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Re: Timing sets

Post #29 by WorldChampGramp » Fri Mar 16, 2018 8:17 pm

Wesman07 wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:
Wesman07 wrote:If your going to make one, make a small batch. People will need them. It will help keep cost down, and profit in your pocket. How big that batch is, is up to your discretion

The way it works is you send us just your crankshaft timing gear, tell us how many degrees you want the gear to advance (or retard), we cut a single keyway to that spec and send it back. If you want more that one keyway it will be a little extra for each keyway.
This way a person can have exactly what they need to install the cam at the correct timing.

The object is not to have to mess with the cam gear.


So the non adjustable gear sets are still available?
Yes from a number of manufacturers. Such as Clevite, Mahale, Melling, Sealed Power and a host of others. Best resource Gramps has found is www.rockauto.com

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Re: Timing sets

Post #30 by brandoncw » Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:01 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote:Great Feedback and thanks to PMuller9 for explaining clearly what our overall objectives are. FYI the target price for processing one customer supplied crank gear with (2) additional machined keyway slots (clearly marked) including an install instruction sheet will be in the $45 range. Additional keyslots can be cut for $7.50 each which will increase the base 2-slot price to $52.50 for a 3-keyway customer gear, $60 for 4 with a maximum 5 new keyway slots for a modest total price of $60. Minimum Shipping costs have been resolved by using the small USPS priority mail box (approx $6) both ways. All our return processed customer gear packaging will be in the rugged USPS small priority mail "freebe". :thumbup: Enjoy your weekend. Gramps

That sounds great, give an adress and as soon as i get paid ill send the gear with some cash if that works?
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Re: Timing sets

Post #31 by WorldChampGramp » Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:00 pm

brandoncw wrote:
WorldChampGramp wrote:Great Feedback and thanks to PMuller9 for explaining clearly what our overall objectives are. FYI the target price for processing one customer supplied crank gear with (2) additional machined keyway slots (clearly marked) including an install instruction sheet will be in the $45 range. Additional keyslots can be cut for $7.50 each which will increase the base 2-slot price to $52.50 for a 3-keyway customer gear, $60 for 4 with a maximum 5 new keyway slots for a modest total price of $60. Minimum Shipping costs have been resolved by using the small USPS priority mail box (approx $6) both ways. All our return processed customer gear packaging will be in the rugged USPS small priority mail "freebe". :thumbup: Enjoy your weekend. Gramps

That sounds great, give an adress and as soon as i get paid ill send the gear with some cash if that works?


Brandon: thanks for the vote of confidence we are working on several fronts as I have outlined previously. We had a review this morning 3/17 of our schedule for the timing gear offerings and we are a ways away from accepting orders. If you can wait, we will be glad to reserve a pole positoion for your gear order. Just what crank gear do you want machined "Brand Wise" such as stock Ford or aftermarket. Bruce

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Re: Timing sets

Post #32 by brandoncw » Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:58 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote:
Brandon: thanks for the vote of confidence we are working on several fronts as I have outlined previously. We had a review this morning 3/17 of our schedule for the timing gear offerings and we are a ways away from accepting orders. If you can wait, we will be glad to reserve a pole positoion for your gear order. Just what crank gear do you want machined "Brand Wise" such as stock Ford or aftermarket. Bruce

No problem, i wouldnt reserve a spot yet, im gonna be gone for quite a while here in june- november. In that case ill probably just pitch my stock one and just get a new set, not sure which as of now.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #33 by Speedthrills » Wed Mar 21, 2018 9:05 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
Speedthrills wrote:I'm curious: is there an advantage to replacing the gears if all that is needed is a key?

When you pull your timing cover and find that the cam timing gear is fiber, you will want to replace it with a metal gear set.

The offset key only fits the cam gear which is a very tight press fit.
Once a multi-keyway gear set is installed, timing changes only involve the crank gear which slides off by hand or by using minor type persuaders.
Much easier than dealing with the cam gear.

Offset keys are only available in 4 and 8 degree changes and the Cloyes gear set only allows 4 degrees advance or retard. This new set of gears allows 2 degree timing changes for those that are trying to degree in an aftermarket cam. I really could have used a 6 degree advance last engine build.


CNC-Dude wrote:Using an offset key is not the most desirable method to advance/retard camshafts. You narrow the cross sectional strength of the key and it requires much less stress to shear it compared to a key that is full width. You may be ok for stock engines, but in performance apps where you have increased spring pressures, you are much safer by using a multi keyway crank gear timing set such as a Cloyes 8-1014. They are only $100, and the most premium quality timing set available for the 240/300 engines, past or present.

Good info guys.
As to the keys strength, now that I think about it, years ago we found that degreeing a Mopar 440 cam with a cam dowel bushing didn't work well. The hole drilled in the cam gear for the bushing would "wallow out". We used offset crank keys with no problem on them. My 300 will always be stock except for the exhaust and the cam timing, but I didn't know it had a fiber cam gear. I'll weigh my options when I decide to do the advance.
Thanks all!

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Re: Timing sets

Post #34 by bubba22349 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 1:40 am

Yes Speedthrills, in the picture in above post #16 you can see a good example of a fiber cam gear with a number of its teeth stripped off. :nod:
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Re: Timing sets

Post #35 by brandoncw » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:35 am

bubba22349 wrote:Yes Speedthrills, in the picture in above post #16 you can see a good example of a fiber cam gear with a number of its teeth stripped off. :nod:

That was a bad day, i was in the middle of no where and my phone was dead. :lol:
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Re: Timing sets

Post #36 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:40 am

Speedthrills wrote: My 300 will always be stock except for the exhaust and the cam timing, but I didn't know it had a fiber cam gear.

The stock valve spring seat pressure is only about 83 #. I would be confident that even a fiber cam gear will last 100 K miles, as would an offset key if the engine is well maintained.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #37 by CNC-Dude » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:57 am

There are still a lot of the desirable Cloyes multi keyway timing sets sitting in parts distributors inventory such as Jegs and Summit, and even eBay. So there is plenty of supply to provide enough to fulfill the few builds that are actually being done for quite a while.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #38 by CNC-Dude » Thu Mar 22, 2018 10:00 am

Speedthrills wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:
Speedthrills wrote:I'm curious: is there an advantage to replacing the gears if all that is needed is a key?

When you pull your timing cover and find that the cam timing gear is fiber, you will want to replace it with a metal gear set.

The offset key only fits the cam gear which is a very tight press fit.
Once a multi-keyway gear set is installed, timing changes only involve the crank gear which slides off by hand or by using minor type persuaders.
Much easier than dealing with the cam gear.

Offset keys are only available in 4 and 8 degree changes and the Cloyes gear set only allows 4 degrees advance or retard. This new set of gears allows 2 degree timing changes for those that are trying to degree in an aftermarket cam. I really could have used a 6 degree advance last engine build.


CNC-Dude wrote:Using an offset key is not the most desirable method to advance/retard camshafts. You narrow the cross sectional strength of the key and it requires much less stress to shear it compared to a key that is full width. You may be ok for stock engines, but in performance apps where you have increased spring pressures, you are much safer by using a multi keyway crank gear timing set such as a Cloyes 8-1014. They are only $100, and the most premium quality timing set available for the 240/300 engines, past or present.

Good info guys.
As to the keys strength, now that I think about it, years ago we found that degreeing a Mopar 440 cam with a cam dowel bushing didn't work well. The hole drilled in the cam gear for the bushing would "wallow out". We used offset crank keys with no problem on them. My 300 will always be stock except for the exhaust and the cam timing, but I didn't know it had a fiber cam gear. I'll weigh my options when I decide to do the advance.
Thanks all!


Offset keys can work fine when you use timing chains, but not gear drives because of the greatly increased drag required to turn them.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #39 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:00 pm

There has never been a problem with using the .750" long offset key with the 300 six cam gear.
The key has a thickness of .188" and that is only reduced to .153" at the shear point with the offset.
Secondly the cam gear has a very tight press fit to the cam snout and will absorb most shock loads that would otherwise be transmitted to the key.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:26 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #40 by CNC-Dude » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:10 pm

pmuller9 wrote:There has never been a problem with using the .750" long offset key with the 300 six cam gear.
The key has a thickness of .188" and that is only reduced to .153" at the shear point with the offset.
Secondly the cam gear has a very tight press fit to the cam snout and will absorb most shock loads that would otherwise be transmitted to the key.


As far as you've seen probably not, but there have been many instances in racing when using very high spring pressures and RPM's of this happening in both the Chevy and Ford in lines. It also depends on how much you are advancing the cam, more advance will lead to an even thinner cross section than the .153 thickness you mentioned. It just depends on how far out the timing set needs to be adjusted. For street apps that these will likely be used for since very few race these engines any more, they probably will be fine with stock-ish valve spring pressures and low RPM driving habits.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #41 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:30 pm

Thank you the clarification as most of the applications on this site is just that, street/strip with open spring pressures less than 300 lbs.
The goal here is not to confuse or worry the reader with examples that do not apply to them.
Clarification certainly helps with that.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #42 by CNC-Dude » Thu Mar 22, 2018 2:37 pm

Since my background and Bruce's is so similar I keep forgetting and comparing my comments to that level of performance and not the milder street/strip levels of most of the enthusiasts here.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #43 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:59 pm

Of a much bigger concern is the fact that the crankshaft key engages just a teeny bit of the cam gear. Most of the key is centered inside of the dampener. If insufficient torque is applied to the damper bolt or if the torque relaxes then there is precious little meat on the key to retain the crank gear. It will move and shear off the tip of the key and if it moves enough, moving parts come crashing into other moving parts, shedding dollar bills along the way.
I had this happen once. I learned from other racers to have the crank keyway cut for a Chevy key, which is roughly twice the length of the Ford and it engaged both the cam drive gear and the damper.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #44 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Mar 22, 2018 8:03 pm

FYI: Modular V8 engines do not have keyways on the cams. They get fixture located and retained by only the torque of the bolt in the front of the cam.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #45 by Fordman75 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 1:35 am

CNC-Dude wrote:There are still a lot of the desirable Cloyes multi keyway timing sets sitting in parts distributors inventory such as Jegs and Summit, and even eBay. So there is plenty of supply to provide enough to fulfill the few builds that are actually being done for quite a while.


Not Summit's. They are listed as not available or discontinued. I tried to buy a set about a month ago.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #47 by pmuller9 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 10:09 am

The Cloyes only gets you a 4 degree advance/retard.
The offering here is any advance/retard you want in any increment with up to 5 keyways.
You send us your crank gear and we send it back with your specified advanced or retarded positions.

As soon as the setup is ready we will post.

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Re: Timing sets

Post #48 by TurboBronco » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:15 pm

1986F150six wrote:https://www.amazon.com/Cloyes-8-1014-Matched-Gear-Set/dp/B000NGOZJI
I purchased two of these on 12/29...they have not shipped yet.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Cloyes/220/8-1014/10002/-1
Jegs says call Customer Service.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Cloyes-8-1014- ... 2653368736
--This item is out of stock


http://www.cloyes.com/Images/CloyesDiscontinuedItems.pdf
Note first line of 3rd page. These are extinct.
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Re: Timing sets

Post #49 by TurboBronco » Tue Apr 10, 2018 12:17 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The Cloyes only gets you a 4 degree advance/retard.
The offering here is any advance/retard you want in any increment with up to 5 keyways.
You send us your crank gear and we send it back with your specified advanced or retarded positions.

As soon as the setup is ready we will post.


This is exciting and a great service to replace the Cloyes timing sets...with more options!
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