Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

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guhfluh
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #151 by guhfluh » Sun May 20, 2018 1:13 pm

Great news and update as always!

The only thing that comes to mind if not offered complete, is still machined for clearance to achieve the valve lifts needed and maybe positive seals while there.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #152 by WorldChampGramp » Sun May 20, 2018 2:35 pm

guhfluh wrote:Great news and update as always!

The only thing that comes to mind if not offered complete, is still machined for clearance to achieve the valve lifts needed and maybe positive seals while there.


Guhfluh: Yes on the valve lift with an out of the box target of .550 max for the as received #1U head that will also have "umbrella" style positive seal macinining. Great question the kind of input we welcome and strongly consider moving forward. More to come stay tuned. BTW your '66 crew cab summary sounds like the build this #1U head is targeted toward. Bruce

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #153 by pmuller9 » Tue May 22, 2018 11:32 am

This is an update from World Champ Gramp

Valves pictured are 1.6 aftermarket SS ex and stock ford 1.78 intake. We did not take a pic of the 1.94 valve in place although we have flowed the 1.78 and the 1.94 back to back with better overall results using the 1.78 valve [even with the chamber laid back as you see in the picture]. That finding alone encourages us to pursue the use of an “in-between size” which luckily happens to be the popular 305 small block Z28 intake which is 1.84 out of the box.


Image

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #154 by Wesman07 » Tue May 22, 2018 2:10 pm

Interesting find! :thumbup:
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #155 by WorldChampGramp » Tue May 22, 2018 4:06 pm

One more point for consideration, the scribe lines in the pic above are from mounting the head on a a std 4.00 bore 300 block then scribed with block upside down on an engine stand (from the bottom). Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #156 by WorldChampGramp » Sun May 27, 2018 8:32 pm

I will try to give you updates on a weekly basis from now on.
I have the pleasure of hosting PMuller9 for the week and we jointly will continue with all three projects utilizing Paul's skill sets for guidance. Anyone that wants to pm Paul with a thank you I personally think that gesture would be very well received. Sectioning of the u-flow heads has begun and we will be posting cross section pics to the forum. Although this is an expensive route to take [when you destroy a perfectly good head] “for the cause” in my opinion the benefits to Forum members and our cylinder head porter + CNC machinist outweighs the cost. We are pursuing other metal cutting sources locally as we cannot section these heads in a horizontal “sandwich” orientation in-house. We now have our own ultrasonic thickness gauge for confirmation of what is possible in the porting arena and affirmation of the purported extra wall and deck thickness of the New 300 Offshore heart shape chamber heads. Stay tuned more to come and keep the SUGGESTIONS coming our way we cannot plan for everything that should be considered as we move forward. Bruce aka Gramps

P.S. A link has been created for Forum members who wish to help with this on-going effort via financial support and to assist confidentially with any size donation
https://paypal.me/pools/campaign/109278162877508656
Last edited by WorldChampGramp on Thu May 31, 2018 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #157 by Josh Jones » Wed May 30, 2018 1:01 pm

I very interested in helping with the project as you might know. I have to find some time to read this thread completely. (I don't have much time to read on the forums, only during lunch or non-work hours.)
1984, Ford, F150, 4x4, Rc, SB, 4.9 L6 Engine, Np435 Transmission, Np208F Transfer Case, "Little Red"
1994, Ford, F150, 4x4, RC, SB, 521cu BBF Engine, C6 transmission, Cyclone 10" Billet Quick Change Gear Box. "Honey Bunny"

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #158 by chromehorn » Wed May 30, 2018 8:09 pm

I’ve been looking for an option to a V8 engine swap for my 96 F150, and this is the news I’ve been waiting for. I love inline 6 engines, and want to keep mine in place. Just because. :wink:

What I’d like to know is whether or not either of the U-Flow heads would be usable with the MAF OBD-2 EFI 300 in my truck? If it’s not worth the trouble to keep the factory EFI intake or the improvement in performance would be limited, then I’ll just take the path of purchasing a donor carbed 300 and build it from there. If the carbureted route is the way to go, are their specific years of carbed 300’s that would make a better donor engine?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #159 by Wesman07 » Wed May 30, 2018 10:25 pm

chromehorn wrote:I’ve been looking for an option to a V8 engine swap for my 96 F150, and this is the news I’ve been waiting for. I love inline 6 engines, and want to keep mine in place. Just because. :wink:

What I’d like to know is whether or not either of the U-Flow heads would be usable with the MAF OBD-2 EFI 300 in my truck? If it’s not worth the trouble to keep the factory EFI intake or the improvement in performance would be limited, then I’ll just take the path of purchasing a donor carbed 300 and build it from there. If the carbureted route is the way to go, are their specific years of carbed 300’s that would make a better donor engine?


The CNC ported U-flow Head will be almost identical to the head you have now, except it will be capable of making much more power.

It is likely your MAF OBD2 system will max out at a certain rpm and will run lean. When and where that is, I can’t say. The carburetor route is the cheapest and simplest solution.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #160 by WorldChampGramp » Thu May 31, 2018 6:54 am

Josh, Chromehorn & Wesman:

I will speak to PMuller9 in person today as he is here in rainy Florida with me. Paul really knows just what most efi systems are capable of and will probably be able to add valuable input for all to use. When we were at "the shop" last night Paul & Al (the machinist) were discussing throttle body options as they apply to all (3) of the street/strip, max flow U & cross flow aluminum cylinder head projects we are aggressively working on. Bruce :beer:

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #161 by chromehorn » Thu May 31, 2018 7:35 am

Thanks Gramps for the updates and for asking about these specific things for us. I look forward to your response. Excited about finally getting to take this project of mine in the direction I’ve always wanted it to go.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #162 by arse_sidewards » Thu May 31, 2018 9:11 am

Wesman07 wrote:
chromehorn wrote:It is likely your MAF OBD2 system will max out at a certain rpm and will run lean. When and where that is, I can’t say. The carburetor route is the cheapest and simplest solution.


Thanks to a few decades of people slapping turbos on things there's a whole book full of tricks we can throw at MAF based systems to get them to play nice with extra air flow (at the expense of a slight loss in accuracy).

If you run two MAFs (only plug one in) and double the fuel injector size you'll at the very least get something that runs and drives. In years past that was the typical solution for the people who can afford a china-charger and the plumbing but can't afford all the other little details (like a proper tune). For more mild increases in airflow people would buy a bigger MAF (of a particular size) and up fuel pressure to increase fuel flow in proportion to air flow. Most of that stuff has fallen by the wayside now that aftermarket ECUs have gotten much better and come down in price, modifying OEM tunes has become more mainstream and a lot of the people who used to use cheap turbos now swap LSs into things.

That said, tricks that alter the amount of air/fuel the ECU knows about are still limited by the OEM fuel and ignition maps. The more you alter the combustion characteristics of the engine (different chamber design, different cam event timing, compression ratio, etc.) the less accurate/applicable they become and at some point (where that point is depends on where you draw the line for "good enough") you're gonna need to do something else. The turbo guys would find this out because (surprise, surprise) the fuel ratio and ignition timing that's appropriate for a given situation depends greatly on intake air pressure (after all, 7.35lb boost isn't much different than +0.5 compression as far as the gasoline and oxygen care).

I have most of the '95 MAF parts lying around. If I had a '95 ECU or a complete '96 setup (or came across either at a "I should buy this while I can" price) I'd probably plan on doing the two MAF hack with swapping to a carb as the standby solution if that doesn't work well enough. If I had the parts would have to try it at least once out of curiosity.

IMO this is all irrelevant though. If you're spending north of $1k on a head you should spend the $$ to do it right. A 4bbl intake and an aftermarket TBI is a big chunk of change but still not that expensive relative to the head, valve-train, came, etc, you'd do at the same time and has the benefit of the fact that it "just works."
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #163 by Josh Jones » Thu May 31, 2018 7:09 pm

When I bought my new casting cylinder head I bought it without a valvejob. (I’ve never bought a head with a valve job actually) I always let my machine shop do the valves. I’ve seen some horrible valve jobs and questionable valvesprings come with “assembled” heads. Besides hardly ever are the springs correct for the camshaft. Not to mention setting your install height.

The AJE heads interest me. Are those heads still around, will they widdle a set out for you?
1984, Ford, F150, 4x4, Rc, SB, 4.9 L6 Engine, Np435 Transmission, Np208F Transfer Case, "Little Red"
1994, Ford, F150, 4x4, RC, SB, 521cu BBF Engine, C6 transmission, Cyclone 10" Billet Quick Change Gear Box. "Honey Bunny"

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #164 by WorldChampGramp » Fri Jun 01, 2018 8:50 am

JOSH: Not familiar with the acronym AJE please explain.

Josh et.al:
Elsewhere in this post and in the Forum there are very good discussions on the various Ford heads that were produced between 1965 & 1996 which I like to group into (4) categories.

Early 240 ‘65-67 with 68 CC’s which are like hens teeth to find. Early 300 heads ‘65-71 were in the ’72 CC arena and none of these early 240/300 heads had the thermactor emission “air holes”. Due to Henry Ford’s corporate edict in late 1971 “we are going to concentrate on lowering emissions and are officially disbanding ALL MOTORSPORTS activity within the company Corporate-wide” which effected not only me personally but 100’s of other very dedicated people who had to scramble to find a new job somewhere else in the company or leave the company Ford.

DUE to this shocking development engine configurations and even model year [running changes] for almost every engine series Ford produced, began in all 1972-1974 model year engines and included lowering the static compression ratio of the 240/300 Inline Six’s. Here is an example right out of a 1974 Ford specification manual I have in my possession. These Ford spec’s peg the 1974 240 chamber as 73.0-76.0CC’s and the 300 as 76.0-79.0 Cc’s. Wirth repeating- beginning with the 1973 model year both 240/300 heads had the “air holes” pumping fresh air into the exhaust port to lower exhaust emissions.

In our possession, as part of our u-head development program, we have 1-unported 1965 240 68cc head, 1-unported 1972 300 head casting # D2DE-BA, 1-unported 1987 300 efi heart shaped chamber head. We have also purchased (2) of the New “Chinese heads” thru EngineQuest which are available in three versions. #1 part # CH300-A bare head with Smog Holes and exhaust seats, #2 CH300-AA assembled head –valves, springs, retainers-AND Smog holes. #3 CH300B, unassembled, NO smog holes BUT no intake or exhaust seats. However ALL the valve pockets have been machined for seat inserts which is NOT a user- friendly offering IMO.
:D Got a plane to catch, more later. Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #165 by Josh Jones » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:13 am

The 240 engine I picked up for my race engine build has the C8AE-D cylinder head. The engine appears to have never been rebuilt.
There is some numbers stamped into the front of the block that look too straight to be non-factory yet out of place.
They are right below the cylinder head “9K23X” and at a angle. I’m sure it’s nothing, just odd.
1984, Ford, F150, 4x4, Rc, SB, 4.9 L6 Engine, Np435 Transmission, Np208F Transfer Case, "Little Red"
1994, Ford, F150, 4x4, RC, SB, 521cu BBF Engine, C6 transmission, Cyclone 10" Billet Quick Change Gear Box. "Honey Bunny"

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #166 by bubba22349 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 9:23 am

Those numbers resemble the casting date code that usually tell the exact date the casting was made at the Ford foundry I haven’t seen the x though. Check the rest of the casting of your 240 head for the date code to see if there is much of a difference. It will look like 3 or 4 numbers and a letter resembles a metal tag in the casting with a screw head on each end. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #167 by pmuller9 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 10:03 am

Josh Jones wrote:The AJE heads interest me. Are those heads still around, will they widdle a set out for you?

The AJE heads were billet without water passages for drag racing only.
They were also near $10,000.

Earlier in this thread is discussed a new aluminum cross flow head that will be offered.
It will have an "out of the box" port flow of 100 cfm more than the best ported iron "U" head.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #168 by Josh Jones » Fri Jun 01, 2018 1:02 pm

Yes, I was wondering about the Alan Johnson heads that were made in the 90's. Didn't know if someone was still selling them for a luxury price or they have all been lost over the years.

Speaking of billet cylinder heads. Have you checked into having the heads 3D printed? I have been attempting to learn about Additive manufacturing. The length of the head would be close to max capacity for the job shops that do one off work. Heck you could probably have prototype heads ran in a plastic. I have been trying to find a shop that is easy to work with. I have a couple of transmission parts I have been wanting made.
1984, Ford, F150, 4x4, Rc, SB, 4.9 L6 Engine, Np435 Transmission, Np208F Transfer Case, "Little Red"
1994, Ford, F150, 4x4, RC, SB, 521cu BBF Engine, C6 transmission, Cyclone 10" Billet Quick Change Gear Box. "Honey Bunny"

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #169 by pmuller9 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 2:36 pm

Ford EFI head sections.
Not the EQ Chinese head.
Click on picture for zoom feature.

Image

Image

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #170 by Wesman07 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 7:36 pm

Very nice. It doesn’t look like there is much material to remove. Is that after some port work?
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #171 by pmuller9 » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:21 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Very nice. It doesn’t look like there is much material to remove. Is that after some port work?

No port work. Straight off the engine to the cut-off saw.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #172 by sandboxer » Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:49 pm

Thanks for the effort. I see opportunity on the long side radius on both intake and exhaust. I think a reshaping of the chamber to the scribe line will allow for higher lift flow and a directed flow away from the shrouded sides.
Just a guess...

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #173 by WorldChampGramp » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:48 am

sandboxer wrote:Thanks for the effort. I see opportunity on the long side radius on both intake and exhaust. I think a reshaping of the chamber to the scribe line will allow for higher lift flow and a directed flow away from the shrouded sides.
Just a guess...


Correct and spot on. For calrification the two pics posted above are actually a single section cutout with one complete chamber and 1/2 intake and exaust on each end. If you look closely at the exhaust pic you can see a black line marked to indicate where the next and final "sandwich cut" will be made to assist in the porting efoort to maximize the throat area below the seat. Should have this cut made today if Amazon delivers the new 150" hook tooth bandsaw blade on time. On the light side I transported this vertical section in my checked bag last Friday from Ft Myers to Detroit, i am sure TSA had fun with that decision. Bruce

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #174 by WorldChampGramp » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:55 am

sandboxer wrote:Thanks for the effort. I see opportunity on the long side radius on both intake and exhaust. I think a reshaping of the chamber to the scribe line will allow for higher lift flow and a directed flow away from the shrouded sides.
Just a guess...


Correct and spot on. For calrification the two pics posted above are actually a single section cutout with one complete chamber and 1/2 intake and exaust on each end. If you look closely at the exhaust pic you can see a black line marked to indicate where the next and final "sandwich cut" will be made to assist in the porting efoort to maximize the throat area below the seat. Should have this cut made today if Amazon delivers the new 150" hook tooth bandsaw blade on time. On the light side I transported this vertical section in my checked bag last Friday from Ft Myers to Detroit, i am sure TSA had fun with that decision. A friendly reminder anyone wishing to help out can click on this PayPal donation link https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/84uHkZRpXq $5 or $10 here and there adds up and we need all the financial support we can get. Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #175 by WorldChampGramp » Thu Jun 21, 2018 8:52 pm

Project Update from Bruce.

Finally we are documenting some quantifiable flow numbers for our 1ST u-flow street/strip head. We have settled on a semi-final intake port design that has a very respectable 215-220 cfm maximum flow at .600 valve lift. Several more prototype intake ports are being evaluated that will maintain this upper end flow and also improve the very important off-seat to the .300 lift flow. In my opinion and with the knowledge and approval of Paul Muller these Very Important attributes such as torque building lower rpm performance have always been one of our prioritized program objectives. This weekend we will also have combustion chamber volume cc numbers of the street/strip finished product for static compression ratio calculations.
My Personal thanks to some very thoughtful Forum Members who have recently made much needed donations via the following link https://paypal.me/pools/campaign/109278162877508656
EXCITING NEWS>> The program committee has decided to announce a rather unique “thank you” to all those who contribute thru this PayPal program process. You will be contacted individually and invited to view [LIVE Dynamometer Sessions] via closed circuit internet on an invitation only basisvia a link supplied using the forum pm notification process. We anticipate a total of 30-40 hours of well-planned in advance dyno sessions, to ferret out all the multiple engine configurations & combinations we believe necessary for these THREE unique (2) new u-flow and (1) cross flow cyl hd offerings.
PLEASE submit any and all finished product content ideas that you deem important as we cannot think of everything. :idea: :nod:

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #176 by Sick6Turbo » Sun Jul 01, 2018 11:35 am

Awesome work! To have that kind of flow with the u head architecture and not have to worry about thin ported walls especially in boosted applications is priceless. Now the 300 will be able to run with a stock 351w the whole distance...not just off the line...and better mpg.

Recently porting a 240 head, I was only comfortable (core shift) opening up the throat area to 85% of a 1.78 intake valve. So to me, the 1.84 intake valve for the new u head makes sense given the confined architecture.

Again, great work guys, thank you for your tireless efforts.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #177 by pmuller9 » Sun Jul 01, 2018 12:37 pm

Intake valve seats being cut for 1.84" intake valve.
Exhaust valve seats installed for 1.60" exhaust valve.
Image

Chamber volume at 64cc before any un-shrouding.
Image

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #178 by jjona5 » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:03 am

How close are you to getting your goal? I went to the page but it just had a total hoping for number. Any chance you might want to do a gofundme?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #179 by sandboxer » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:25 am

I have 4 engines that need heads for hot rods to be built. Watching closely.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #180 by WorldChampGramp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:38 pm

jjona5 wrote:How close are you to getting your goal? I went to the page but it just had a total hoping for number. Any chance you might want to do a gofundme?


Great Question jjona5

Someone recently criticized the absence of this Public View running total and after a quick consult with our Development team, everyone agreed WE have nothing to hide and believe in FULL transparency. Subsequently, I logged-in the back end, changed the default preference attempting to display ONLY the actual amount collected as a running total on the Public View home page. Unfortunately, Pay Pal has an intended restriction in their design template software probably because the primary purpose of these individual funding efforts are supposed to be raising money/ contributions from Family & Friends; NOT intended for business related efforts. After several attempts at changing these preferences using multiple or single choices I concluded can’t be done without also showing donors personal comments for Public view. You will probably be somewhat disappointed, as I and other team members are, that we have only managed to raise a total of $360 to date. A total of 6 individual donations 1 of which is a neighbor and close friend the other 5 are Forum member contributions.

I like your suggestion about creating a Gofundme platform as this may accelerate the much needed capital to proceed without additional personal hardship. Currently, I am about 6K in the tub as of this past weekend and faced with how to fund the cost of more parts & pieces so we can continue on an interrupted basis. I get most of the development hands on work N/C as well as the use of this surperb facility N/C. Everything else, I have been funding myself. :bang: ANYONE please PM me if you have direct experience with a gofundme or similar venues as these alternatives may be a more logical way to help fund our exciting odyssey. Help me find that finish line please. Bruce

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #181 by WorldChampGramp » Thu Jul 12, 2018 1:27 pm

sandboxer wrote:I have 4 engines that need heads for hot rods to be built. Watching closely.


Sandboxer: "I knew your name rang a bell" so for the benefit of all, I thought I would repost our back and forth from the previous encounter lat January as follows:

Re: EBay forged pistons
Post #41 by WorldChampGramp » Mon Jan 29, 2018 4:30 am
Sandboxer: I am curious as to exactly what your plans are for sectioning the LS head. I assume U R going to make the head a 3-piece TIG stitched cross flow by using a total of (2) production heads? Cutting one down the middle and using both of these 2-chamber end pieces then cutting a center 2-chamber section from the other head. Is that a fair assumption? Sorry for being so anal with my inquiry BUT you and others may be interested in the fact that I am "newly rejuvenated" with my current Preparation H 2 engine build and also have an LS3 sectioned alternative in the works right here Sunny Ft Myers. BTW serendipitously I spoke to John Kasse a few weeks back as he and I had a fairly strong relationship some 40+ years ago. My discussion was about cylinder head flow and the “velocity vane” principal in the intake port to resolve some of the low flow intake problem many are plagued with regardless of the corporate brand. I would be glad to call John again and get you a definitive answer from “The Kazz” which I will gladly share with all. Happy stitching TIG sure beats the old furnace brazing problems I had to face when making my 6-piece 351C heavyweights in the mid 70’s. Bruce

Re: EBay forged pistons
#42 by sandboxer » Mon Jan 29, 2018 11:25 am
Thanks for the update Bruce! I'm hoping to use this head to 3D scan it, use the computer scan to create a pattern that will be used to cast numerous heads. I would like to test it first, and that means using the composite head, whether it's TIG or braze joined. I would like the head to not leak around the water jackets, so I'm not sure whether this is readily achievable. I'm trying to see whether vacuum brazing is an option.
It's very exciting to hear about the Preparation H revival. I wish I was a neighbor. You would have all the volunteer hours required. Any and all insights are welcome.
Cheers
Chris

Now let me answer your current post statement today 7/12/18
sandboxer wrote:I have 4 engines that need heads for hot rods to be built. Watching closely.


WE can and will supply you with any of our (3) head types when they are ready for production from our prototyping/Dyno program. If you wish to prioritize an order for 1 or more S/S (Street/Strip heads) that will be ready for final production within the next 45-60days. Please PM me and I will give you the skinny. Thanks again for your interest and rest assured your confidence in our ability to perform will be rewarded much like the lucky collector that finds a near perfect Stradivarius LOL bet none else catches that analogy but you. Cheers Also Bruce :idea:

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #182 by CNC-Dude » Sun Jul 15, 2018 9:38 pm

WorldChampGramp wrote: You will probably be somewhat disappointed, as I and other team members are, that we have only managed to raise a total of $360 to date. A total of 6 individual donations 1 of which is a neighbor and close friend the other 5 are Forum member contributions.

Currently, I am about 6K in the tub as of this past weekend and faced with how to fund the cost of more parts & pieces so we can continue on an interrupted basis. Bruce


Wait till you get about $60K-$70K invested like some of the rest of us and you still only get about 6 sales a year! You went to sleep in 1978 and woke up 40 years latter still thinking your were in 1978. The inline performance market is almost non-existent now compared to back then, so you are only going to be further disappointed the longer you stay in it. All this looks fancy and excites a lot of people, but not to the point of actually wanting to do it theirself. Most of these enthusiasts with the big Ford 6's have a hard time spending $200 or $300 on a complete rebuild, so good luck getting them to spend 2 or 3 times that just for a head.

Plus, the flowbench means nothing, you wont likely get any takers until you actually put something together and prove its reliability on the street after several years of wear and tear. I approached my good friend several years ago that was the editor of Hot Rod Magazine at that time about a series of dyno tests we were doing on Inliners. I wanted him to do a story(I was writing it)about our Chevy cylinder heads and he said in a polite way, Scott, don't waste my time giving me useless flowbench data unless you have some HP numbers to show my readers what that even means. In the real hot rod world today, flowbench numbers are useless without dyno numbers to take it to the next level. That's how far we've come since 1978, and we've also exceeded where you are now with what your doing with billet heads being available, but again, there is no market for that for the street guy as you are seeing with your 6 donations after how long now....3 or 4 months. That should tell you plenty right there.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #183 by Sick6Turbo » Sun Jul 15, 2018 11:05 pm

Bruce, Wes, Paul, I can't tell you how excited I am about the work on the heads that you are doing. I have a customer that I am currently building a 500hp turbo 300 for, he passed on a twin turbo bbf for the coolness factor of a 6. Another customer (who's BBF N2O truck is in my shop now) has been hounding me forever about a 600+hp 6. Now that can become a reality. I see the potential for possibly 3 X heads coming my way....one for my 38 Ford of course.

Everywhere I go, everything I do that is performance Ford inline has taken off. My 300 inline Youtube vids get 10 fold the views as other turbo builds, and the same with forum threads. People have actually been willing to drive to me from another state to go for a ride in the sleeper! At the race track there are tons of hot mustangs, 8 second cars etc...guess who had a the crowd around him when after the first blast down the track with the sleeper??? Car shows are the same thing, the stuck up people are wondering why everyone is hovering around and old rusty Ford truck, while they are the only one by there "show car" lol.

Performance 300-6 Fords are hotter than the Florida sun, now more that ever. And not just in my area. Youtube and forums are worldwide and I have ongoing contact with people in Canada and Australia that are building inlines.

Keep up the great work, and I will keep donating. Together we can make this dream a reality.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #184 by WorldChampGramp » Mon Jul 16, 2018 10:56 am

Sick6Turbo wrote:Bruce, Wes, Paul, I can't tell you how excited I am about the work on the heads that you are doing. I have a customer that I am currently building a 500hp turbo 300 for, he passed on a twin turbo bbf for the coolness factor of a 6. Another customer (who's BBF N2O truck is in my shop now) has been hounding me forever about a 600+hp 6. Now that can become a reality. I see the potential for possibly 3 X heads coming my way....one for my 38 Ford of course.

Everywhere I go, everything I do that is performance Ford inline has taken off. My 300 inline Youtube vids get 10 fold the views as other turbo builds, and the same with forum threads. People have actually been willing to drive to me from another state to go for a ride in the sleeper! At the race track there are tons of hot mustangs, 8 second cars etc...guess who had a the crowd around him when after the first blast down the track with the sleeper??? Car shows are the same thing, the stuck up people are wondering why everyone is hovering around and old rusty Ford truck, while they are the only one by there "show car" lol.

Performance 300-6 Fords are hotter than the Florida sun, now more that ever. And not just in my area. Youtube and forums are worldwide and I have ongoing contact with people in Canada and Australia that are building inlines.

Keep up the great work, and I will keep donating. Together we can make this dream a reality.


Slick6Turbo Man after my own heart, you are just the resource we have been looking for. Here’s why:
We all know you can't run flow benches, if that were the case we would be having closed circuit drag races and wouldn’t have the benefit of being outdoors and treated to those unique odors we all love e.g. burning rubber. No the proof will be in the proverbial pudding, after we do our level best to develop user friendly performance cylinder heads in a planned, controlled, environment encompassing design, build, engine fit function, finally lighting up our creations for individualized Dyno testing sessions. When these (3) mutually exclusive prototype builds are finalized, we will be partnering with likeminded Forum members like you, to Field Test our creations. In my opinion this is the ONLY way we can have 100% confidence in our product development efforts. Paul and or I will be contacting you this week to explore mutually beneficial possibilities of success. On the light side, I have had to put the reins on our Machinist Al V lately, he is scouring the countryside for a Pinto gasser or pro stocker rolling chassis, you can guess why. He justifies this new obsession with this logic “Imagine if we build a bullet proof 300 with our x-flow head, dyno tested to produce 625+ HP and plugged into our (he means Bruce & Al) Pinto clone of your 70’s Gasser then make a mid-8 Second pass on the 1St try” etc etc. How can I argue with that logic.
Last insight into the psyche of Yours Truly, which I will openly share with all in this forum.
The proverbial cat is now out of the bag after 50 years of my guarding this very important Lone Ranger personal accomplishment while at Ford in the Performance Events Department . If I have peaked your curiosity wander over to the 428 Cobra Jet Registry and see what all the noise is about. I recently joined over their as worldchampgramp3 but have not had a chance YET to correct several of the factual errors needing help to complete this will live on forever feat ALL ON MY LONESOME.

Here’s the link : https://www.428cobrajet.org/forum/index.php
GRAMPS

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #185 by sandboxer » Mon Jul 16, 2018 11:30 am

I am currently buying up all the big sixes I can find in my area. The current total is 5, with 7 transmissions. I think the 240/300 is the biggest untapped gift to hotrodding.
Keep it up guys.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #186 by Sick6Turbo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 3:03 pm

The Pinto deal sounds awesome! My interest is peaked.

Since my 38 Ford is a loooong way off, I contacted Nitrous Nick (his sweet n2o BBF lowered/shaved 77 F100 is currently in my shop) and he is all over the detail. He is the one that has been hounding me forever about a 600+hp 300. He said he would buy another truck or even pull the BBF out to install the 6. We haven't even started the fresh BBF engine yet lol!

I also put a text into Riley (sleeping now, works nights) to see if he has interest. He is next in line in the shop with a twin turbo 351w in a 96 mustang, and owns the sleeper now...which will/would be getting the 500hp turbo 300.

So, I will have chariots available ect. if and when the time is right.

I will look into the 428 link and send my contact info to you p.m. tonight.

Thank you, and honored, Dale
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #187 by Sick6Turbo » Mon Jul 16, 2018 5:00 pm

Just received a text from Riley in regards to possibly installing a field engine into the sleeper he said: "ABSO-FREAKIN'-LUTELY!"

Well, that makes 3 of us in our little corner of the world ready to jump in with both feet.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #188 by jason832 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:29 pm

I'm pretty sure I'm in for the Max u head. Need to get it to Canada though...

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #189 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:25 pm

I have been eagerly watching this thread since day one. I none of the local machinists will even look at my 300, nevermind build 1. And a good friend of mine is currently building a 55 f500 which he hopes can be powered by a turbo 300. Two sales here for sure

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #190 by WorldChampGramp » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:22 am

Page# 4 positive comment contributors & S/S head flow Bench progress +++ Release dateNot counting the multiple entries of my trusted associates (Paul & Wes) and addressing only the remaining highly supportive posts on page 4, in total as a GROUP such as:
guhfluh, Josh Jones, chromehorn, arse-sidewards, Slick6Turbo, jjona5, Mdixon300f100
Your supportive dialog collectively and individually is very important to me personally, helps keep me motivated and enforces my dedication and that of our team to press on with this very exciting project.
Understandably, Everyone wants to know 1) when are THEY going to be available, 2) how can I order one, 3) what about shipping state to state, or to Canada {see jason832 post #188} and finally 4) how much will they cost.
I will answer in order:
# 1) S/S head CAN be ready for confirmed order acceptance status, with an estimated ready to ship re date no earlier than this coming September, hopefully for a Labor Day announcement. This first important Street/Strip currently most popular choice (based upon forum member comments) will be a, New EQ 4.9L efi casting, Fully Assembled, ready to bolt on>>fully ported, ultra-sonically cleaned, unpainted, replete with exhaust seat inserts, valves, springs, retainers, locks & seals.
#2) The order process will be coordinated through a new web site (URL to be announced soon) that will have a user friendly e-commerce platform with financial support software from PayPal. On that site you can use the sites unique email address and contact link for your order processing off forum inquiries etc.
#3) Our preferred and most cost effective shipping door to door is UPS ground. Canada may be a challenge for most but not for “Gramps”. I have strong personal RE client/contacts throughout Canada especially in the Ontario province and willing to arrange for a drop ship for you without customs hiccups ONLY IF Necessary. I love a logistics challenge.
#4) Not cast-in-stone as of this weekend b/c we have not nailed down the facility owners cost to us for his overhead and purchased parts charges on a per head basis. BUT MY best guess at this time is $1500-1600 for the S/S head your cost or racers net pricing.
Please be advised that Paul Muller will be posting the latest flow numbers and pics which we finalized yesterday Saturday 7/21/18. We will not make ANY further changes to the fully ported extensively flowed Intake and Exhaust port runners from the valve seats along their entire length to the I/E manifold face. HOWEVER we will be making This Week evenings some final chamber un-shrouding considered NECESSARY after Paul & I and our flow expert consulted last night as follows. As you can clearly see in the close up of the current customer ‘Junior B’ head very little [easily reshaped, combustion chamber material] has been removed in an effort the retain a minimum chamber volume for your Street/Strip use. Recall that the production 86-96 Ford OEM head has a published volume of approx. 68CC , whereas the New EQ head has an out-of-the box 64CC volume. The minimum reshaping you see pictured here (as of yesterday) only removes approx. 1CC. making what is pictured a 65CC chamber. Removing another say 2 CC’s for final un-shrouding will benefit low valve lift CFM, associated increase in lower rpm torque, the added benefit of improved drivability ALL what we consider important product content attributes for a happy customer release.
ANY forum members wishing to comment on the above stated summary of S/S head findings, product content, and intended completion of chamber methodology, please chime in now the door for revisions is rapidly closing.
IMPORTANT REMINDER about our Program monetary donations process. OUR PayPal program donations link https://www.paypal.com/pools/c/84uHkZRpXq is easy to find, easy to use and provides you with a strictly confidential means of expressing your overall support for our long overdue Big Six professionally coordinated effort. The donations process is your individual decision and for the price of a cup of coffee to something more substantial; ALL are monitored by me personally, on a regular basis. Rest assured your monetary donation amount, frequency, with a built-in link provision for personal messages directed to myself and other team members. None, ZERO, Zip, Nada are shared with others outside of our select group of Program Principals.
Enjoy your weekend. Bruce

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #191 by Lunatic Fringe » Sun Jul 22, 2018 12:51 pm

Great news!! Not that I'm trying to add pressure. Now that you have this one moving alone, do you have a better idea on when the other 2 will be ready. My program has been pushed back by parts delays enough that I'm hoping I will be able to use one of them and not need to build a ported stocker. Keep up the great work!

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #192 by guhfluh » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:03 pm

Thanks for the updates as always, Gramps!

I don't want it to sound pessimistic, but I'm not sure this S/S head would be much of a benefit to me in my application with flow in the 220cfm range. It's all speculation, calculation and bench racing, but with my current stock valve home ported head I've made 220hp at the wheels max at ~4700rpm in what I consider is not an optimal setup(and a known low reading Mustang dyno). I still run a 2 piece driveshaft, full floating drum brake Dana 60 rear, large and heavy wheels, tires and hubcaps, etc. Even through a gutted oil bath air cleaner. I've since "detuned" it some, pulling timing and swapping the smaller Edelbrock 500 on and settled for a dynoed 200hp at the wheels with a very rich AFR(~300ft/lbs from 1800+). Going by the 220cfm estimate, I calculate about 315hp "possible" at the crank and maybe only 250hp or so at the wheels. This leaves me thinking a higher flowing head vs what I have may be more fitting for me, but then again it's speculation and assumption, etc. so I just don't know.

Just throwing it out there.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #193 by pmuller9 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 1:28 pm

Here is the ported EQ EFI head showing the partially shrouded chamber.
Unshrouding the chamber will help .200 to .400 lift flow numbers.

The flow numbers are:

Lift, In, Ex
.100, 54,46
.200, 100, 82
.300, 134, 106
.400, 182, 136
.500, 218, 150
.550, 220, 164
.600, 220, 170
.650, 220, 174

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #194 by pmuller9 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 6:54 pm

guhfluh wrote:This leaves me thinking a higher flowing head vs what I have may be more fitting for me, but then again it's speculation and assumption, etc. so I just don't know.


What rear wheel horsepower are you looking for?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #195 by guhfluh » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:58 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
guhfluh wrote:This leaves me thinking a higher flowing head vs what I have may be more fitting for me, but then again it's speculation and assumption, etc. so I just don't know.


What rear wheel horsepower are you looking for?

That's a hard question for me to answer. "All of it" would be my normal motto. With this truck, I'm still trying for a nice driver, I just always want "more" everywhere. My ultimate end goal is turbocharged, so not exactly a direct comparison. Because I couldn't make a direct flow chart comparison with my current head, it's so hard for me to guess how much I'd gain with any different head other than guestimates and theoretical calcs. 400+whp has been a estimated goal to shoot for with my current flowing head and a turbo, but I may be fuel limited way before that if I can't figure out how to fit an IC nicely. Because this isn't a drag truck, I can't just take an ET goal and weight and back calculate what HP I'd want to meet my goals, so it makes it hard for me to decide what power level I'm really after. I'd really just like to compete with my 96 Cummins with pump mods in terms of performance and drivability, so I don't end up pulling the 300 out and swap it in.

I know it's not really an answer, just all I've got for this truck.

If I can pick up a regular cab eventually, I'd be able to have a better HP goal. That may happen before too long as a project with my dad.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #196 by sandboxer » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:43 pm

PMuller
What hp is possible with this head?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #197 by pmuller9 » Sun Jul 22, 2018 11:54 pm

sandboxer wrote:PMuller
What hp is possible with this head?


I'm expecting just over 300 hp with a performance street cam near the 230 degree .050" duration range at 5500 rpm

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #198 by sandboxer » Mon Jul 23, 2018 8:47 am

That's fantastic. It might even take on my stock 340 dart. I'm running 91-94 octane at 3500-4500 ft above sea level in the Canadian Rockies. I'm curious as to how much I can push my compression ratio to eke out a bit more...

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #199 by Wesman07 » Tue Jul 24, 2018 8:29 am

I think guhfluh is questioning intake port velocity. Has anyone figured out the intake port volume before and after porting?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #200 by WorldChampGramp » Tue Jul 24, 2018 11:13 pm

My learned colleague Paul M will be posting the FINAL superb **better than expected**- intake port/chamber work CFM numbers finalized tonight for your scrutiny soon.. My eyes are rapidly closing 14 hour days get old hat for anybody. No sympathy required just pray that I can stay focused on the goals we have set which are admittedly HIGH but doable. Gramps :bang: :wow:

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