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Best Exhaust.

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Matt942
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Best Exhaust.

Post #1 by Matt942 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 3:46 pm

So My cylinder head is almost gunna be ready, and it will be time to put my truck back together. Just wondering if anyone has any good exhaust ideas, looking for recommendations on what exhaust, and headers is best to put on my 96. I guess the EGR tube that come out of the exhaust when I was taking off the cylinder head. So is it necessary to have it, or will new headers not need it and I will not have to replace? Mostly looking for an idea or opinion that’ll help my truck out performance wise, and or with gas mileage.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #2 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:02 pm

Probably not gonna like my answer but my advice is to keep everything back to the cat and replace everything behind the cat with a free flowing muffler and mandrel bent exhaust pipe sections.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Matt942
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #3 by Matt942 » Mon Aug 12, 2019 6:34 pm

Any recommendations and or preference you might have towards a free flowing exhaust ? Won’t that also make it sounds like one of those rice bowls? I’ve also give some thought about doing a a single inlet to dual outlet muffler if I were to keep everything from the cat and in front.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #4 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Aug 12, 2019 8:14 pm

I like that idea. I'm no authority on aftermarket mufflers, but I have a Flowmaster SERIES 50 on a V8 powered '46 pickup that is real mellow. I also have a cherry bombed 300-six coupe that is quite raspy.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

arse_sidewards
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #5 by arse_sidewards » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:52 am

I agree that the factory downpipes are pretty good (certainly better than the aftermarket one with its half-assed Y). There's nothing to be gained/lost from keeping/removing the cat. Any barrel style muffler from a newish truck making double the horsepower should provide decent sound and minimal restriction at a low cost.

A 3/4 pipe plug fits in place of the EGR tube if you no longer have it but you're gonna have a heck of a time getting the stock fitting out unless the exhaust manifold is hot and bolted to something solid (like an engine that's installed in a vehicle).
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

F-250 Restorer
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #6 by F-250 Restorer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:30 am

The Hedman long tube header has two issues: It seals in your starter, so it is best to use an efi era mini starter, or you'll be using clamps and pry bars to R&R your starter when it fails. Secondly, it creates A LOT of heat. That heat will create vapor lock issues in the summer that will make you angry when your vehicle won't start.

sdiesel
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #7 by sdiesel » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:48 am

leave everything as ford designed /engineered it at the engine and exhaust down to the converter.
then, source an OBS ford diesel exhaust system to attach from the cat-back.
absolutely the best value and bet performance that u will get from that engine.
diesel parts gives u big muffler, 3 inch pipe, and cheap.
on the 96, please do not alter the engine, pollution, parameters in any way. u will be unhappy with the result if u do.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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old28racer
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #8 by old28racer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:20 pm

Unless you need headers the EFI exhaust is a nice clean way to go that gets rid of the heat problems on the intake manifold and makes the it so you can run a stock starter that you can find any where in your travel, I will be changing out to EFI later this summer.
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

F-250 Restorer
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #9 by F-250 Restorer » Tue Aug 13, 2019 7:36 pm

old28racer wrote:Unless you need headers the EFI exhaust is a nice clean way to go that gets rid of the heat problems on the intake manifold and makes the it so you can run a stock starter that you can find any where in your travel, I will be changing out to EFI later this summer.


You can find an efi era starter as easily as a pre efi starter, maybe easier, during travels or at home.

Regarding the heat issue, certainly any header is going to produce more heat that a cast iron manifold. However, the concern is whether or not the heat causes problems. I've been using a header, Hedman and now a Clifford shorty, for ... 12 years. In the DP configuration--mix screws facing the valve cover-- many carburetors react poorly to being cooked when they overhang the intake with the header below. The ones that were fine were oe carbs made not of aluminum. Holley worked great, as did Quadrajets, and Edelbrocks too. What I found interesting was the the Autolite 4100's, worked fine. But the Summit copy of that carb, made of aluminum, developed vapor lock.

Neither would I say that a cast iron manifold guarantees no heat issues. It does not.

I've yet to try the C configuration, although I'm now using a Clifford intake that allows me to turn the carb how I see fit.

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MechRick
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #10 by MechRick » Tue Aug 13, 2019 8:10 pm

The 1996 trucks need the air injection and EGR to be working to keep the check engine lamp off.

Although you could make a header work with some creative welding, the EFI manifolds work fine.

You will notice two converters on your truck. The forward converter acts as the Y pipe, and has a big enough pipe diameter to prevent a serious restriction. The rear catalytic converter drops down in size and hurts flow.

The air injection tubing plugs in the exhaust pipe between the two converters, and the rear oxygen sensor is forward of the rear converter, so the rear converter is *not* monitored by the computer. I'm not suggesting something illegal, I just thought you should know, and now you do.

If you can get 2.5" pipe front to rear with a good free-flowing muffler (I like Dynomax super turbo) you will notice an improvement.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

arse_sidewards
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #11 by arse_sidewards » Tue Aug 13, 2019 9:48 pm

MechRick wrote:The 1996 trucks need the air injection and EGR to be working to keep the check engine lamp off.


Not if you own a multi-meter and know how to spec out a resistor they don't... :wink:
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

sdiesel
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #12 by sdiesel » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:43 am

true enough the EGR can be bypassed.
but why.
it's beneficial in important ways, as long as all parts are properly functioning.
many studies substantiate it's effectiveness at increasing power.r.
at least within parameter.

headers when EFI manifolds are available, are a headache.
helpful at higher RPM but not really in a pickuo.
noisy, leaky and prone to rust., they will draw heat away from head, which is sometimes helpful, but will deposit most of it in the engine compartment...

but might be useful with a remote turbo...
heat shield on starter and under intake using the now unneeded bolt holes on the intake thst once secured intake and exhaust together, along with clever ducting, prevents boil of fuel.
I like the header wrap too.
and ceramic coats....
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

arse_sidewards
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #13 by arse_sidewards » Wed Aug 14, 2019 12:10 pm

sdiesel wrote:true enough the EGR can be bypassed.
but why.
it's beneficial in important ways, as long as all parts are properly functioning.



It's a rubber diaphragm on a part that handles exhaust gasses. They are not functioning on many if not most ~30 year old vehicles. You only take a fuel economy hit at part throttle cruise. With ~150hp, modern traffic speeds and the kind of gearing most 80s and 90s trucks left the factory with "part throttle cruise" is not a common condition. It makes sense why a lot of people throw it in the trash the first time they have to deal with it.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #14 by F-250 Restorer » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:01 pm

sdiesel wrote:headers when EFI manifolds are available, are a headache.
helpful at higher RPM but not really in a pickuo.
noisy, leaky and prone to rust., they will draw heat away from head, which is sometimes helpful, but will deposit most of it in the engine compartment...


"...noisy, leaky and prone to rust..." Huh, I have to say that with 12 years of driving with headers (Hedman and now Clifford shorties) I've NEVER had a problem with leaking or rust (socal). Except for when the shorties were first installed and my alignment of collectors were off a bit due to my welding skill or lack there of, ha ha. It seems ludicrous to me to spend money to make an engine breathe, and then choke the exhaust down to two 1.75" openings, which was engineered for an engine putting out, what? 150 hp? Each of my header tubes are one and five-eighths in diameter, slightly smaller than the efi collector used by three cylinders. Of course, if you have oem valves, then the efi manies are great.

"...helpful at higher rpm but not really in a pickup." Ah, from what I have read, long tube headers are for top end, whereas shorties are for low end torque.

Downside: Absolutely! They are louder than oem manifolds, and that was what I wanted. I didn't do a bunch of mods and spend a bunch of money on them to have it sound oem. To each their own. And they do produce more heat, without a doubt.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:25 pm

F-250 Restorer wrote:"...helpful at higher rpm but not really in a pickup." Ah, from what I have read, long tube headers are for top end, whereas shorties are for low end torque.

For the 300 six:
Long tube small diameter primary tube headers work best for low end torque.
Long tube larger diameter primary tube headers work best for high rpm power.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #16 by F-250 Restorer » Wed Aug 14, 2019 8:06 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
F-250 Restorer wrote:"...helpful at higher rpm but not really in a pickup." Ah, from what I have read, long tube headers are for top end, whereas shorties are for low end torque.

For the 300 six:
Long tube small diameter primary tube headers work best for low end torque.
Long tube larger diameter primary tube headers work best for high rpm power.


That is contrary to everything I have read:

Long tube headers build a ton of power in the mid to high RPM range. They are the best option for high-rev vehicles, and track terrors. But they aren’t necessarily street legal, depending on emission standards. And usually, long tube headers are difficult to install. All the extra room they need inside the engine compartment may call for some costly reconfiguration.

Shorty headers perform best in the idle to mid-RPM range. This makes them the perfect headers for vehicles that rely on low-RPM power, like a daily commuter or a work pickup that sees a lot of towing and hauling.


I have read the same on several sites and magazines. I took the above from here: https://blog.tdotperformance.ca/guides/ ... r-exhaust/

Here is another saying the same: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EI0hT8Hw1T0

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #17 by Soldmy66 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:38 pm

I believe pmuller9 was only comparing primary tube diameter (small diameter vs large diameter), and not primary tube length (short vs long). Unless I am mistaken, his statement was only with respect to headers having the same primary header tube length, but different primary tube diameters.

If that is correct, I agree with pmuller9 that small diameter primary tube headers are better suited for low to mid RPM operation, while larger diameter primary tube headers are better suited for higher RPM usage.

Long primary tube header length vs short primary tube header length is different; although I believe longer tube headers show a benefit over short tube header all of the time.
Last edited by Soldmy66 on Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

pmuller9
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #18 by pmuller9 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 11:32 pm

Shorty headers are usually used to eliminate fitment issues and is a compromise for producing torque.
In every dyno test that I have seen clearly shows a loss of power throughout the entire power band when using a shorty header versus a long tube header.
There was no advantage anywhere including low to midrange torque.

Also there are cases on larger displacement engines where the larger diameter tube header showed a significant increase in high rpm power with very little loss of torque at the low end.
When testing on the engine dyno with open headers the low end was boosted when collector extensions were used.

It was our experience that the 300 six made the best low end torque using a long tube header over the EFI exhaust.
I suspect since the 300 six has relatively large cylinders there may be gains going from a 1 1/2" primary to a 1 5/8 primary tube header on a healthy street performance combination.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #19 by Wesman07 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:24 am

The engine simulation program I use shows exactly what your saying. I can not remember if the gains are as significant with a stock head.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #20 by MechRick » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:22 am

Simple answer: Primary pipe should be 80-90% of the exhaust valve size.

The in depth answer takes account of camshaft duration, intake tuning, intended usage and intake/exhaust port diameter.

Tuned headers provide a torque bump around a certain RPM. You can raise or lower the RPM point by changing pipe length, pipe diameter or both. The Hedman header for our sixes is not a tuned header.

Smaller diameter pipes will tune to a lower RPM for a given pipe length, however they might not flow enough exhaust gas at higher RPM.

Overly large diameter primary pipes will need a longer length to tune for lower RPM, complicating the design, when it isn't necessary for the flow required.

Headers work by providing a slight vacuum at the open exhaust valve at their tuned RPM. With camshaft overlap, the vacuum (or negative pressure with reference to atmospheric) works with the overlap of the camshaft. Fuel/air flows past the open intake valve to scavenge residual exhaust from the combustion chamber. Because of this, cams with more overlap than stock work better with tuned headers.

If there is even the slightest hint of back pressure after the header collector, the tuning effect is reduced.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #21 by BigBlue94 » Thu Aug 15, 2019 11:31 am

I'm running unknown longtube headers on my 300. They have been on the bronco since 2003 ish. They are 1.625 primary tubes into 2.5" collectors. They have been recently jet-hot coated with their 2000° coating.

I've never had a 300 other than this one so I cant compare.

That being said, they get really really hot when crawing offroad. They caused my engine to get to 240° and the fuel was boiling in the carb. Going 20mph of more, I have zero issues with heat. Itll run 180° down the highway all day (done 700 miles in one day at 3300 rpms).

I've never had em bake the starter either.
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #22 by F-250 Restorer » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:43 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Shorty headers are usually used to eliminate fitment issues and is a compromise for producing torque.
In every dyno test that I have seen clearly shows a loss of power throughout the entire power band when using a shorty header versus a long tube header.
There was no advantage anywhere including low to midrange torque.

Also there are cases on larger displacement engines where the larger diameter tube header showed a significant increase in high rpm power with very little loss of torque at the low end.
When testing on the engine dyno with open headers the low end was boosted when collector extensions were used.

It was our experience that the 300 six made the best low end torque using a long tube header over the EFI exhaust.
I suspect since the 300 six has relatively large cylinders there may be gains going from a 1 1/2" primary to a 1 5/8 primary tube header on a healthy street performance combination.


Thanks for the clarification.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #23 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Aug 15, 2019 4:34 pm

MechRick wrote:If there is even the slightest hint of back pressure after the header collector, the tuning effect is reduced.

Good point. This is often ignored by folks. It is one reason to opt for the EFI manifolds since the difference in power between the two is minimal when you have them hooked to a full exhaust.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: Best Exhaust.

Post #24 by sdiesel » Thu Aug 15, 2019 6:39 pm

and since we are digging into the weeds on this, let's comment on reversion, and the various
methods used to reduce this reverse flow of gases.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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