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Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

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Wesman07
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Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #1 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:11 am

I spoke with an engine builder today about a build I will be starting this spring. When we started talking about pistons he said the Kieth Black pistons are good quality but he doesn’t like to use Silv-O-Lite in even a basic marine application. He says that the material is too thin and the tolerances are poor.

I knew they were different product lines, but I didn’t think they were that far apart. Anyone one else want to weigh in on this one?
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 9:02 am

Most engine builders involved in street performance engines that want to uphold a good reputation do not use cast pistons which is probably where your engine builder is coming from.
The one shop that supplied parts for me on occasions has been building engines since the days of TRW pistons uses KB forged pistons with very good success.

You will find larger than acceptable variations in both piston weight and dish volume in both Silvolite and Speed Pro pistons including Speed Pro forged pistons.

A cast hypereutectic KB will work fine in a 300 six and if you want forged KB your machinist can bush the rods down to .912" allowing the use of 351W V8 pistons.

Many here have used the Silvolite pistons on moderate builds without problems but your engine builder is trying to give you a better quality build.
Sounds like someone you can trust.

BigBlue94
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #3 by BigBlue94 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 12:39 pm

Silv-o-lite is a KB line. KB is owned by UEM. I'm one who is running the KB hyperutectic 351w pistons. With a .005" proud deck height, and a factory 85 300 head, these give me a 9.75:1 static compression.

https://uempistons.com/i-29938-kb-hyper-piston-ford-351w-rod-5-956-step-dish-15cc.html

Image

Image
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

Wesman07
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #4 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:00 pm

He is definitely someone I can trust, which is not easy to find. I can literally count the people I let work on my machines on one hand.

I was pleasantly surprised to see two very sharp guys in their mid fifties, surrounded by masterpieces in progress. The shop was very clean and filled with beautiful OLD equipment. The funny thing is the place looks like a shack from the street.

What I found interesting is he had nothing bad to say about hypereutectic material. His main complaint was in the ring groove tolerance of the silv-o-lite piston and the rings available. I believe he said the grooves were commonly cut too deep.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Wesman07
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Posts: 439
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #5 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 2:03 pm

BigBlue94 wrote:Silv-o-lite is a KB line. KB is owned by UEM. I'm one who is running the KB hyperutectic 351w pistons. With a .005" proud deck height, and a factory 85 300 head, these give me a 9.75:1 static compression.

https://uempistons.com/i-29938-kb-hyper-piston-ford-351w-rod-5-956-step-dish-15cc.html

Image

Image


Very nice! The KB line looks like a very nice product.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 4:59 pm

Wes
What combination have you decided on for your engine?
Last edited by pmuller9 on Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BigBlue94
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #7 by BigBlue94 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 5:17 pm

Wesman07 wrote:He is definitely someone I can trust, which is not easy to find. I can literally count the people I let work on my machines on one hand.

I was pleasantly surprised to see two very sharp guys in their mid fifties, surrounded by masterpieces in progress. The shop was very clean and filled with beautiful OLD equipment. The funny thing is the place looks like a shack from the street.

What I found interesting is he had nothing bad to say about hypereutectic material. His main complaint was in the ring groove tolerance of the silv-o-lite piston and the rings available. I believe he said the grooves were commonly cut too deep.


Hmmm. I used I believe Mahle rings with some plasma coated something. Buying a set of 8 351w pistons is cheaper than buying 6 individual, and let's the builder choose the 6 closest in weight.
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

Wesman07
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #8 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:08 pm

Paul

It’s looking like I will be going with a custom set from Auto Tech, 4300 series. Both you and the gentleman I met yesterday speaks very highly of them. I don’t think KB makes a piston that will get compression down to 7.8-8:1.

My biggest concern with forged was the higher risk of cold seizures, but this shop claims that they have never had that issue.
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:21 pm

Please remind me of the total project.
Turbocharging with fuel injection?
Power band?

Wesman07
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #10 by Wesman07 » Wed Nov 06, 2019 8:34 pm

I’ve explored all the possible options over the last few years, and you have helped on a a few of them. I should really start a separate thread for this. The short answer is yes, yes, and 1-4,500.
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #11 by pmuller9 » Thu Nov 07, 2019 11:46 am

Wesman07 wrote:I’ve explored all the possible options over the last few years, and you have helped on a a few of them. I should really start a separate thread for this. The short answer is yes, yes, and 1-4,500.

A separate thread would be great so you can keep all of your planning in one place for everyone to follow.
I was reading an old thread you had on "Smart Carburetors". After that discussion I'm assuming you figured out that EFI will give you the best fuel control?

Wesman07
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #12 by Wesman07 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 8:38 am

Yes fuel control/ delivery was a big one. Fuel injection was also a less complicated and cheaper option when you look at the whole package I would need. It’s really hard to beat MS/Holley. If done right, I bet fuel injection ends up being the more reliable system for sake of less moving parts.

I also talked to the owner of smart carb. If you didn’t tell that the theory worked, I would have thought he was running a scam. I was out after he told me about the mixed results they had with forced induction. I love carburetors, but not for what I’m doing with this one.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #13 by pmuller9 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 10:05 am

I have more questions but I would rather wait until you start a new thread over in the turbo section.

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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #14 by jgregg13 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 1:19 pm

Just picked up a set of "Speed-Pro" (Sealed Power, Federal Mogul, made in India) pistons that are advertised as hypereutectic. They were only $78 for the set and have the "D" shaped dish. So I'll let all know if there are any issues.

pmuller9
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Re: Kieth Black vs Silv-O-Lite pistons

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Fri Nov 08, 2019 2:11 pm

jgregg13 wrote:Just picked up a set of "Speed-Pro" (Sealed Power, Federal Mogul, made in India) pistons that are advertised as hypereutectic. They were only $78 for the set and have the "D" shaped dish. So I'll let all know if there are any issues.


Can you take the time to CC the dish volumes to see how much each piston varies?
Measure the actual distance from the pin bore to the top of the piston at both sides of the piston to see if the pin bore is parallel to the piston top?
Also weight each piston to see how much the weight differs.
Thanks John

This type of info is valuable.

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