Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

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DrDuktayp
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Post #51 by DrDuktayp » Tue Oct 30, 2007 11:07 pm

I too have wondered about cost. If it is sold bare which I think is normal then you have the cost of valves, rockers, springs etc. I suspect it wouldn't be to difficult to spend another couple of thousand swapping in the new head.

Even though I will have a 'new' engine in a few weeks I can see myself purchasing the new head when it is available.

The small block head is beautiful!

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Post #52 by shmoozo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 1:23 pm

DrDuktayp wrote:I too have wondered about cost. If it is sold bare which I think is normal then you have the cost of valves, rockers, springs etc. I suspect it wouldn't be to difficult to spend another couple of thousand swapping in the new head.

Even though I will have a 'new' engine in a few weeks I can see myself purchasing the new head when it is available.

The small block head is beautiful!


My understanding is that the Small Six head comes with valves and valve guides, but that most of the rest of the valve train components would be one of the following:

-- the stock Ford items from the engine's original head
-- included with whatever camshaft kit the builder selects
-- specified by the customer as a part of their custom build

As I would tend to think that the folks using one of these heads are likely to choose a camshaft a bit more aggressive than the stock camshaft I would assume they'll also upgrade many of the other valve train components to those which are appropriate for use with the camshaft they choose.

My guess? The bare head with valves and valve guides for the Big Six engine will cost about the same (give or take a couple hundred dollars or so) as the small head. Add on the cost of dressing the head and I agree that a couple thousand dollars would be a reasonable "ballpark" number for a fully dressed head. Note, however, that there's a great deal of slop in that number and the final cost will depend quite a bit on just exactly what the builder specifies for the rest of the valve train components.

:)

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Post #53 by addo » Wed Oct 31, 2007 4:39 pm

Actually, the dollar's exchange rate is a big factor. When Az was setting up sales on the small six, the Australian dollar was about 12% cheaper to "buy" than it is now.

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Post #54 by spartman » Mon Nov 05, 2007 3:39 pm

So will this head have similar characteristics as a soft head design?

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New 300 head

Post #55 by Gord » Fri Nov 09, 2007 5:09 pm

When....when...when....when...when, I need one of these right away, when will it be ready. If there is a waiting list please add my name, its just got to flow better than stock, and it will sure be a ton lighter.

gc

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Post #56 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Sun Nov 11, 2007 1:24 am

so when will the alu. head be done
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Head

Post #57 by Gord » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:59 pm

We really need some one to come on here and give us some real all Bulls@#t removed info on just why this head is taking so long, certainly someone must know the answer and give a time line. Will it be Jan 2008, March 2008 or never, someone must have an reasonable answer. The other questions that need to be answered are will we beable to run our existing intakes, I use a two 4bbl set up, what bout headers, once the head is done will we have to wait another year or so to get the pieces we need to run it.

Gets pretty frustrating when there are no conclusive answers.

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Post #58 by tjm73 » Mon Nov 12, 2007 7:54 pm

The head is in a pre-production/prototyping stage still. My understanding is the first couple heads didn't meet expectations, so it's getting a design adjustment. AzCoupe is the guy doing this and your post comes accross as having an aweful lot of attitude that is, quite frankly, uncalled for.

It'll be ready when it's ready. There is no sense in rushing a product to market when it's not ready yet.

And you question about running existing intakes is answered already. You can see in the pics at the begining of this thread it's designed for OE intakes and exhaust.

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Re: Head

Post #59 by shmoozo » Mon Nov 12, 2007 10:13 pm

Gord wrote:... Gets pretty frustrating when there are no conclusive answers.


Yes, but at the moment there are no conclusive answers that can be given.

Here is my advice. Watch this space for further announcements. When there are things to announce, you'll see them announced here.

As for an ETA, well, based on the current progress and the progress we saw in the development of the head for the small six head, I'd say a reasonable guess would be that the head for the big six might be available sometime late next year. That's only a guess, however. There could be set backs in the development process which push that date further into the future, or fortuitous progress that winds up having it available earlier.

But when there are developments -- whether progress or set backs -- you'll read about them right here.

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Re: Head

Post #60 by cliffordthebigredtruck » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:09 am

All I'm going to say is that quality takes time...especially when you are custom-making something (which is what is being done here).

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Post #61 by addo » Tue Nov 13, 2007 12:10 am

Gord, speaking as a punter it can be frustrating. As someone who's been involved in trying to get stuff made, it's maddening!

I have some thoughts on this caper. Firstly, the production orders are small compared to confirmed sales of other (existing) product, so any company wanting to consolidate it's position* will focus on guaranteed sales volume of a proven product while placing R&D second.

Secondly, manufacturer quoted times are best described as fiction. Can't remember the last time a Ford Six project came in on time.

Thirdly, I strongly suspect there is frequently preferential dealing - queue jumping, if you like - to the detriment of small businesses like Classic Inlines.

Here is the head company's contact page: http://www.chiheads.com/contact_cylinde ... ations.php

I see nothing wrong with people calling them up to ask "when?" - noting that they can't really comment on price as they're just the manufacturer/wholesaler. For less than the cost of a hamburger, it might be an interesting conversation...



* Consolidating position. This is important to the smaller businesses because heavy hitters are gradually squeezing others out. Fear of litigation, skills shortages, sublet industry availability and questionable market models are conspiring to remove incentives for people to make small runs of obscure products with any level of inherent quality. (I discount the "third world" products as frankly many leave a lot to be desired.)

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Head

Post #62 by Gord » Tue Nov 13, 2007 3:37 pm

Some one cannot tell the differance between frustration and attitude...what ever, get over it.... (now thats attitude) :wink: . In any event I have the answer that many were looking for, don't plan on this head for at least a year and with all due repect to the builder probably longer than that by the time the intakes & headers are all done.

So if you operate an annual motor program for your race car then you now can make plans for the next couple years. Plans for the 2010 year can include the aluminum head. By then the bugs should be worked out and we can determine its usefullness in a pure racing application.

Great now I do not have to vist this particular thread for at least a year & a half. [/img]

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Re: Head

Post #63 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:38 pm

Gord wrote:We really need some one to come on here and give us some real all Bulls@#t removed info on just why this head is taking so long, certainly someone must know the answer


I can tell ou that head development is probably the most exacting, demanding component in terms of product development that there is in a car. So many factors to optimize simultaneously from design to production. Give it time, relax.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

motorman66

Post #64 by motorman66 » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:17 pm

are you going to be munufacturing this heads for sale and if so when are they going to for sale.
will you make the engine block too??

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Post #65 by tjm73 » Thu Jan 03, 2008 11:02 am

Any news you can share? Is development moving along?

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Post #66 by American Thunder » Mon Feb 25, 2008 11:51 pm

Another major benefit to using an aluminum head is the ability to run pump gas with 1 full point higher compression ratio than you could with an iron head. And 1 point makes a big difference in terms of power and efficiency.

I'd like to see this new 300 head use the FE style rocker shaft setup. That thing was bulletproof, stable at any rpm, with zero deflection under any valve spring pressure. It's also quieter than stud mounted rockers, and doesnt need guideplates. With all those aftermarket companies(like dove) producing a wide array of 428/427 FE engine pieces, you would have a good selection of stuff available.
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Post #67 by tjm73 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 11:36 am

How did this lose it's sticky? Is it still in pre-production?

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Post #68 by shmoozo » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:24 pm

tjm73 wrote:How did this lose it's sticky? Is it still in pre-production?


It's still in development.
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Post #69 by 82F100 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 8:40 pm

trolling the waters... been thinking again :roll: but if and I mean "IF" I could pull it off anyone up for a potential Alan Johnson style head With waterjackets???? Or a aluminum version of the "BOSS 300"head This in no way would be in competition with the CI300 head but for all out racing. This is just a thought now mind you but if one were to dream might aswell dream big.
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Post #70 by super4ord » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:45 pm

You have definitely tweaked my interest. Have you been brain storming about this? Are you figuring to be able to use an existing aftermarket intake like the Cliffords or Holman Moody or a custom fabricated intake? Boss "Crossflow 351 Cleveland style", I guess you mean intake on drivers side and exhaust on the passenger side, ie. custom fabricated. Frenchtown Flyer's friend John Peto up in Ohio does a pretty mean crossflow aluminum head using Chrysler W-7 bent 8 heads.

Darrell

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Post #71 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Sun Mar 02, 2008 9:53 pm

you know i was just think. if your going to make a head y not make a cross flow head that fit all the part that are out there like a clif 4bbl manifold and other stuff.
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Post #72 by 82F100 » Sun Mar 02, 2008 10:13 pm

All i'll say is that I plan on visiting a friends shop once the snow melts LOL and pick his brain while on a parts quest for the 250 8)
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Post #73 by Thad » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:26 am

supercharged 300------------
There is no reason an aftermarket intake manifold would not fit on a cross flow head with intake on driverside.
Port spacing would be the same as the original so all that is needed would be the same bolt pattern on the crossflow heads..

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Post #74 by SR_Crewchief » Mon Mar 03, 2008 9:31 am

supercharged 300 wrote:you know i was just think. if your going to make a head y not make a cross flow head that fit all the part that are out there like a clif 4bbl manifold and other stuff.


Among other problems is the distributor clearance.
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Post #75 by tjm73 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 5:20 pm

I'd just be happy to see this head get released and see what kind of power it can make. I've very curious about what it will deliver.

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Post #76 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Mon Mar 03, 2008 8:58 pm

ya i guess looking at it the intake may hit the dis.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

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truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

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Post #77 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:15 pm

supercharged 300 wrote:you know i was just think. if your going to make a head y not make a cross flow head that fit all the part that are out there like a clif 4bbl manifold and other stuff.




I suggested that early on, in addition to shaft-mounted rocker arms. I was sad to hear it was going to be a u-flow head. It would have been easy to put two mounting patterns on the crossflow head to use existing manifolds for the production head, or do what I did on my crossflow head - make an adapter plate to allow the use of current aftermarket manifolds.

As for the distributor there are several ways to overcome the clearance issue - right angle gearbox, crank triggered ignition, or EFI style Crank Position sensor.

Having said that I sincerely hope the new head is a big boon to 300 fans everywhere, with plenty of performance to offer.
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Post #78 by 82F100 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:57 pm

And if i win the lottery aluminum 4 bolt main blocks for everyone!Like I said the head is hypothetical and in no means a threat to the 300 head being worked on now. Cause Mike would probably kill me LOL
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Post #79 by tjm73 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 12:58 pm

Does anyone know the status of the Alum head at this point? We haven't had any updtes in a long time. :?:

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Post #80 by shmoozo » Tue Mar 04, 2008 2:40 pm

tjm73 wrote:Does anyone know the status of the Alum head at this point? We haven't had any updtes in a long time. :?:


So far as I am aware it's still in development. The lack of news is likely due to the fact that there has been nothing new to report in a while.
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Post #81 by 82F100 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:02 pm

I think there should be some updates posted here shortly.
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Post #82 by tjm73 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 5:19 pm

82F100 wrote:I think there should be some updates posted here shortly.


Do you know something????? :D

85f250mudder

Post #83 by 85f250mudder » Thu Mar 20, 2008 4:47 pm

hurry please i need one at least

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Post #84 by broncr » Fri Mar 21, 2008 1:13 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:..Having said that I sincerely hope the new head is a big boon to 300 fans everywhere, with plenty of performance to offer...


Ditto...

'Nice to see this thread dusted off, every once in a while.
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Post #85 by mattri » Sat Mar 22, 2008 11:17 pm

Absolutely, can't wait to hear the latest on the new head.

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Post #86 by Pinhead » Mon Mar 24, 2008 10:13 pm

Me too... Subscribing.

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Post #87 by PYRO3256 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 1:33 am

i havent been around just read on this. my 0.02 allways thought a aftermarket alum head would be good if it were a copy of the stocker. if it does not use stock or oem parts. like the fe rockers or ect. or stock manifolds,covers,intakes,ect. dont bolt up. whats the point. the avarage joe will be saving up to buy this head to begin with. letalone be able to buy all new valve train and induction,ect. i thought having an alum head would be good because it would be lighter, me more adaptable to high hp. and mods that good with it. and look nicer. but if a total retooling is in order count me out. i just spent all winter fabing a custom intake i'm not about to buy a "performance head" that i cant bolt it to. if this is an alum version of a stocker execpt for maybee flowing better. than i'm in tell me when and where to send the money.

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Post #88 by Geezer 300 » Sun Mar 30, 2008 6:47 pm

If you read all of the thread you'll see it uses the stock type bolt ons.
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Post #89 by mutt » Sun May 11, 2008 12:33 pm

as close to original (externally) as possible because of the smog nazi's. if it fails visual inspection, itll hurt sales. Sad to say, this sort of nit wittery HAS to be taken into account.....

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Post #90 by new_falcon_owner » Tue May 13, 2008 8:44 am

my question is who is paying for this, Az??? out of his pocket? has anyone offered to help fund this head design? even if it doesnt come out? if he is paying out of his pocket, man that must be alot upfront and all i read is when when when, not if you need help, just ask and abunch of us will do our best. he should of kept it all quiet, and jsut surprise everyone when its finished. :roll: i dont plan on buying one, it would be the most expensive thing on my pos truck, and i dont think even an alum head would make it run better... give him slack and understand hes trying and he might have to pay for everything himself (no idea the cost but holy crap must be alot to keep going back for testing)

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Post #91 by SR_Crewchief » Thu Jun 19, 2008 9:32 am

Mike,

I'm aware that this head is still a long way off, but...

Something to consider as a follow on project is a 3 piece exhaust manafold. If you haven't already, take a look at what companies like High Tech Turbo, BD, Piers, plus a couple of others have developed for the Cummins ISB's. It could be cast to accept T3 flanged turbos, and with the addition of an adapter could function quite well for N/A applications as well.

Just a thought.
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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #92 by 82F100 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:09 am

:hmmm:
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #93 by Fordman75 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 2:59 am

What do you know something about the big 6 aluminum head the rest of us don't??? :| If there is an update get Mike to spill the beans!! :D :nod: :nod: :nod:

Or is that a 5 year delayed response about the turbo manifold? :?
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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #94 by 82F100 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:17 am

Fordman,
I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow, let me ask him if I may post something first. I know one of his goals this year is to do some stuff for the Big 6 folks. :D
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #95 by Fordman75 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 11:55 am

82F100 wrote:Fordman,
I'll be seeing Mike tomorrow, let me ask him if I may post something first. I know one of his goals this year is to do some stuff for the Big 6 folks. :D


It's about time!! :mrgreen: Us Big 6 guys have been feeling left out of the Classic Inlines goody list! :lol:
Ted

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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #96 by crash-harris » Mon Feb 25, 2013 6:05 pm

I wanna know the wee bitty specs, like if the pushrod holes will be drilled or slotted (like the EFI and older heads respectively), if you'll need guideplates if you decide to go with chebby rockers, and yes indeed a matching valve cover with enough room for roller rockers :mrgreen:
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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #97 by woodbutcher » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:33 pm

:D Hey Guys.Just remember what my Grand Father used to say."Slow and sure beats the heck out of quick and dead".
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #98 by Fordman75 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 9:44 pm

woodbutcher wrote::D Hey Guys.Just remember what my Grand Father used to say."Slow and sure beats the heck out of quick and dead".
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo


Leo this thread was started 5 years ago! :lol: How much slower can it go. :lol:
Ted

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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #99 by 82F100 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:39 pm

:D :D Ok folks just talked to Mike, The biggest hurdle is being taken care of... The patterns have been down in Australia and Mike has been trying to get them up here for several years now. They are on their way!! And the process will begin to get them produced as soon as they get here. He is shooting for sometime this fall for them to be done and said he would chime in with updates as things go along. :beer:
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

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Re: Big Six aluminum head update 9-14

Post #100 by Fordman75 » Mon Feb 25, 2013 10:49 pm

82F100 wrote::D :D Ok folks just talked to Mike, The biggest hurdle is being taken care of...The patterns have been down is Austrailia and Mike has been trying to get them up here for several years now.They are on their way!!And the process will begin to get them produced as soon as they get here.He is shooting for sometime this fall for them to be done and said he would chime in with updates as things go along. :beer:



I guess it's time to start saving my penny's again! :beer:
Ted

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300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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