Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

300 head flow#

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

300 head flow#

Post #1 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Wed Jan 21, 2009 12:07 am

this really isnt a question im just updating you all on what im doing.....so here we go im taking a HIPO cylinder head class at SCCC.... so fair i have flowed my 85 head it peeked at about 154 cfm at .400 lift on the intake about 130 cfm at .400 lift on the exh.... i have to do a complete port job..from one end to the other.... im also going to port the turbo,intake, and exhaust manifold.
ill scan the print out later on the flow numbers.


i can believe that the head flowed that good....there were some guys there with 350 head that flowed less then my head....
Last edited by TCIC 300ci superbeast on Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60
dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast
2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"
truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS
walk softly and carry a big six

User avatar
StrangeRanger
VIP Member
Posts: 5789
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 5:54 pm
Location: Copley, OH

Post #2 by StrangeRanger » Wed Jan 21, 2009 8:09 am

Did you get baseline flow numbers on the un-modified head?
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #3 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Wed Jan 21, 2009 5:55 pm

sorry i didnt say that..... yes thats the stock un-moded numbers.

i havent dont any work on it.....im hoping to pick it up some and get some "high" numbers out of it.......that turbos going to add a lot more air as well.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #4 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Thu Jan 22, 2009 11:33 pm

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk71/TCIC312ci/my011.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk71/TCIC312ci/my.jpg


i stoped flowing it after .600"...i didnt think i would get any more cfm out of it after .600" and im not going with that big of a cam.


and these are all un-modded numbers
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #5 by Lazy JW » Fri Jan 23, 2009 8:46 am

Interesting, keep up the good work and let us know how this project progresses 8)

Will you have the time to do several stages of modifications and report your findings? Something like doing a mild pocket porting with the stock valves first and do a flow test, then install oversize valves with the mild pocket porting and test, then do some major porting and test. This would give us a really good set of numbers upon which to base future upgrades.
Thanks,
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

User avatar
Craigwell
Registered User
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:37 pm
Location: Atlantica, Canada

Post #6 by Craigwell » Fri Jan 23, 2009 9:59 am

YES! Show your instructors this site, and let them knowwe are all counting on you!

They'll understand 8)
1995 F150 4x4 4.9L E4OD Mule / Plow Truck
Gone but not forgotten: 1976 F250 4x4 300 six, NP435. Dana60/44HD 4.10 Traction Lok, EFI Exhaust, 240 Head

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #7 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:28 pm

i may be able to do one or two steps but not many more. i dont know if im going over sized valves at this time....if i do what size valves would you guys suggest to use.


i have one problem at this time... when i was first cleaning it no cracks showed up...but then when i started cleaning up(just geting rid of the sharp edges) the #6 exh. runner i found a small crack thats to big to just put a new seat in......i think that ill just keep going and if it gets biger owell. i can still get some good numbers out of it to help out....

id like to port it and then take it to a CMM and get the port in a digital format for any one who wants a CNC ported head.


ill post pic as soon as im finished cleaning up the ports......i still have about 60 hours left in the class.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Harte3
VIP Member
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Post #8 by Harte3 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:55 pm

I think 1.90 or 1.94/1.60 or 1.65 Chebby valves have been discussed in the past or possibly 351w valves. Intake/exhaust ratios of 75%-85% have been discussed too.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

mutt
VIP Member
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca.
Contact:

Post #9 by mutt » Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:37 pm

look fwd very much to your further discoveries. you have achieved Rocket Scientist rating.....

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #10 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:01 pm

thanks for all your support. im hoping to make a monster out of the trucks as well as give all of you all the details on what i have done.



on a sides note i took the turbo housing off to clean and ports... while i had them off i measured the turbo wheels....the in/exh. is 2.950" just under an inch of my piston size.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

rmt
Registered User
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:56 am
Location: FL.

Post #11 by rmt » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:38 pm

From Rsquare314:

rmt;I don't remember exactly where I got these, somewhere on the 'net.
Supposedly for stock 300. Int. .100 58, .200 110, .300 149, .400 158, .500 164. Exh. .100 46, .200 71, .300 92, .400 112, .500 126. I can't verify the accuracy of these, but they might provide a baseline

This was from a thread we had almost 4 years ago. Don't know what help it might be if any.

Harte3
VIP Member
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Post #12 by Harte3 » Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:56 pm

http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php? ... =head+flow

There is some info posted by CJ455 on head flow.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #13 by CNC-Dude » Fri Jan 23, 2009 6:22 pm

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:

id like to port it and then take it to a CMM and get the port in a digital format for any one who wants a CNC ported head.


inline300 started a thread not long ago about someone in the CNC industry that had shown an interest in doing just that with the 300's and other Ford 6's. That person also has many years of professional head porting experience as well as race engine building experience in many Stock,Super Stock and Comp Eliminator and Pro Stock classes for top contenders, past and present. Also with inlines, and has done things for some of the fastest 6 cylinder racers that have been NHRA national record holders and champs. With this persons credentials they could definately have helped take these engines to many new heights for all levels of enthusiasts. But there wasn't any interest by anyone here to speak of!

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #14 by Lazy JW » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:46 am

CNC-Dude wrote:... there wasn't any interest by anyone here to speak of!


Yup. The way I see it, most of us here are more inclined to use our 300's as daily drivers and working vehicles rather than all-out racing engines. Fully hogged out racing heads just don't fit into that scenario.
Reckon that's just the way it is, eh?
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

bentwire
Registered User
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:31 pm

Post #15 by bentwire » Sat Jan 24, 2009 12:06 pm

ummmmm well i get carried away with over doing things, so my head will be hogged till the windows ring also running 1.94/1.60 stainless chebby with BBC roller rockers, custom springs
1984 F 150 302 AOD
1984 f150 4.9 4 spd 4x4 trulock
All kinds of used 300 parts blocks and heads to build trade and expierment with

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #16 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:07 pm

i wasnt planing on taking the ports to the extreme. this will be a street/off road motor. for now the motors going to have an all stock bottom end.. so just the head work and 7psi.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Harte3
VIP Member
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Post #17 by Harte3 » Sat Jan 24, 2009 1:56 pm

bentwire: If you haven't done the head yet you might reconsider. The high-speed, all-out types on the Speed Talk Forum advocate port matching with the manifolds to remove downstream ledges and NOT gasket matching. There is considerable discussion too on filling certain areas of the intake with epoxy. The idea is to improve flow characteristics and not hogging just for volume which can cause performance to actually go backwards. In some things, bigger is not always better.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #18 by CNC-Dude » Sat Jan 24, 2009 2:28 pm

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:i wasnt planing on taking the ports to the extreme. this will be a street/off road motor. for now the motors going to have an all stock bottom end.. so just the head work and 7psi.
Im sure you should be able to make some good improvements....

Thad
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:56 pm
Location: Vinton, La / Orange,Tex --- Hurricane Alley

Post #19 by Thad » Sat Jan 24, 2009 4:49 pm

Suggest 1.90" int. any bigger it is shrouded on one side. 1.65" exh. is fine. Install harden seat on exh.

Suggest do the valves first and flow check, then bowl blending and flow check, then clean up the runners and final flow check. You will derive data showing what work is most benefitical, best for the effort.

If your head is cracked and you have to replace, use the cracked one for learning. Split one of each runner/ valve pocket vertically, then you will see how much metal you have to work with. The short radius is critical and needs reshaping but there is water behind it.

Beware! You will be amazed how much the runners can be opened upward. Widening is limited by the closeness of adjacent runners.
The real limit to opening the runners is not the head but the availability of manifolds and how much they can be opened to match the head.

Got carried away doing mine. The ID of the ports are bigger than the OD of a Clifford manifold. :shock: Some where in the archives are pics. And flow also stalled at .600"

bentwire
Registered User
Posts: 107
Joined: Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:31 pm

Post #20 by bentwire » Sat Jan 24, 2009 5:40 pm

thanks Thad for the input i value all comments

we are port matching my Offy C with the head grinding down velve stem guide area and takeing the shroud off the valve back to the gasket mark. I have several heads so we are not worried about messing one up, i have 300 blocks and heads running out my ears, also milling the head to get back the CR lost from unshrouding the valve, CR ratio will be 9.5.1 or close to it

and Flow is my target i just want lots of it, i have reduced the cam lift choice due to rocker ratio and the chebby vlaves being .100 longer from seat to lock, i am going to gain about .30 on the vlave lift from the 1.7 ratio rockers,, this engine is being built to run normaly asperated or Blown hence the cam choice keepeing valve duration above 110

as choked off as this head is in stock form, there is no going backwards on performance with a hog job, now if we were pitter pattering around being wishy washy and over teching everything, your are going to have problems for sure, somtimes you need to take the rain coat off and get wet to know what real water feels like
1984 F 150 302 AOD

1984 f150 4.9 4 spd 4x4 trulock

All kinds of used 300 parts blocks and heads to build trade and expierment with

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #21 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:38 pm

Thad wrote:If your head is cracked and you have to replace, use the cracked one for learning. Split one of each runner/ valve pocket vertically, then you will see how much metal you have to work with. The short radius is critical and needs reshaping but there is water behind it.

my plans....to finish porting the (bad)head, bolt it on my 78s motor with the turbo on the side.....and as soon as its runing start porting the head that came off the truck to replace the cracked one thats on the truck.
i really cant have the truck down for to long.. just about a day when im swaping the head.

but once i do take the bad head off the motor..i may split it down the ports and post wall thickness for all to know.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Thad
FSP Moderator
Posts: 1636
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 11:56 pm
Location: Vinton, La / Orange,Tex --- Hurricane Alley

Post #22 by Thad » Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:46 pm

If you are turbo-ing the engine then in all likelihood at some point you will be fabbing both manifolds, then there is no restriction on port size except the head it self.

On mine the intake was raised 3/16" at the port face tapering in to the bowl and the exhaust about the same. Just clean the floor of the ports.

6pack
Registered User
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Dec 25, 2002 5:14 pm
Location: Middle Tennessee

Post #23 by 6pack » Sun Jan 25, 2009 12:06 am

I have a fully ported cast head that we use to run. I has 2.02 intakes with 1.94 exhausts. the head was poured solid with hardblock. the intake ports have been epoxied up to make a shortside radius and the roofs of the exhaust have been welded up and raised a bunch. The intakes only forl 220CFM @ .650. moral of the story= the stock 300 head is a Pig!

User avatar
Craigwell
Registered User
Posts: 666
Joined: Thu Sep 16, 2004 12:37 pm
Location: Atlantica, Canada

Post #24 by Craigwell » Sun Jan 25, 2009 7:32 am

This is one of the more interesting threads I've seen here. Thanks for your work TCIC.
1995 F150 4x4 4.9L E4OD Mule / Plow Truck
Gone but not forgotten: 1976 F250 4x4 300 six, NP435. Dana60/44HD 4.10 Traction Lok, EFI Exhaust, 240 Head

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #25 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Sun Jan 25, 2009 1:46 pm

no thanks to all of you guys for the advice...i have learned so much off this site it about time i give something back even if its just some flow numbers on a few different mods that can be done to the head.

i just hope that i can be of help to any of you guys that are looking at doing some head work. so that you all may learn for what iv done right and what iv done wrong.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #26 by CNC-Dude » Mon Jan 26, 2009 12:28 pm

Lazy JW wrote:
CNC-Dude wrote:... there wasn't any interest by anyone here to speak of!


Yup. The way I see it, most of us here are more inclined to use our 300's as daily drivers and working vehicles rather than all-out racing engines. Fully hogged out racing heads just don't fit into that scenario.
Reckon that's just the way it is, eh?
Joe
Hey Joe,I agree that some enthusiasts on here don't have needs that require them to consider this type of process for their vehicles. But there are many folks that incorrectly assume that when they see the words CNC and head porting in the same sentence, that the results you get are a head that is machined to within a gnats a$$(cool use for dollar signs)(LOL) of its life and is impractical for anything other than all out racing. That simply isn't the case at all. Most all CNC head porting facilities have many different levels or stages of head porting, starting with mild street porting that still incorporates the use of CNC to form and shape the ports in many areas to enhance the head for the customer use. The use of CNC also speeds up the time required to do these processes and is often much cheaper than the same steps done by someone doing it by hand, it also consistently reproduces these ports and runners so they not only are the same from one port to the next, but from the first head to the 100th head and beyond. Now, whether CNC porting or head porting in general is even practical for these heads is up to the individual needs of the person seeking them. But there is a large majority of guys and gals on here that have desires to use their big and small 6's for hotrodding and occasional blasts down the track, or even full tilt racers, so to them the benefits and gains of this newer technology is available to help them take their ride to much higher levels than has been done before using conventional methods and techniques. Also, cost was mentioned in the earlier post by inline300, that some speculated incorrectly, that the cost to develop such technology for these engines would be so extreme, that it simply wouldn't be cost effective to persue and no one could afford it. And typically thats true, but that couldn't be accurately said without knowing who it was that was offering to do it and develop it. Some people are motivated by means other than the almighty dollar, perhaps a true passion to help others persue new venues in their hobbies and new frontiers, or just the challenge. Just a thought. I think there is much potential with it on these engines for many to benefit from....

rmt
Registered User
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:56 am
Location: FL.

Post #27 by rmt » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:44 pm

Going back on FSP a few years, I had mentioned the possibility that I would be able to get a cast finned aluminum valve cover developed for the 240-300. A neighbor has a foundry and was very interested in doing it. Another member had machined finned side covers that he was offering.

In both cases, as SuperMag pointed out, once the masses found out they would cost more than $19.95, interest dropped off very quickly. Eric sold a few side covers and those that got them liked them very much. But he didn't make anymore. I dropped my project, the market wasn't there enough to warrant the development and it's costs.

Most of the interest was from people wanting to know if discounts were available. Everyone liked the ideas and would really like to have the parts, cheep.

Roger

mutt
VIP Member
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca.
Contact:

Post #28 by mutt » Mon Jan 26, 2009 1:46 pm

"... persue new venues ... and new frontiers..."

the 300 as the Starship Enterprize......now you see why I call the smart heads around here Rocket Scientists......

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #29 by CNC-Dude » Mon Jan 26, 2009 2:05 pm

rmt wrote:Going back on FSP a few years, I had mentioned the possibility that I would be able to get a cast finned aluminum valve cover developed for the 240-300. A neighbor has a foundry and was very interested in doing it. Another member had machined finned side covers that he was offering.

In both cases, as SuperMag pointed out, once the masses found out they would cost more than $19.95, interest dropped off very quickly. Eric sold a few side covers and those that got them liked them very much. But he didn't make anymore. I dropped my project, the market wasn't there enough to warrant the development and it's costs.

Most of the interest was from people wanting to know if discounts were available. Everyone liked the ideas and would really like to have the parts, cheep.

Roger
There always have been and will be "bottom feeders" that want something for nothing in all realms. All new markets need a transition period to circulate through the industry. Once products begin to be used by people that become noticed in magazines or in racing or word of mouth, and bring attention to the product or services, then those "bottom feeders" are replaced by customers that appreciate the quality of what you are offering. Many people buy Craftsman tools, but there are also many who desire better.....like Snap-on! Just because you didn't get the initial response from your product, doesn't mean it wasn't fixing to skyrocket and become a fantastic seller. Do you have pics of them. I'd like to see them if you don't mind sharing them.....

mutt
VIP Member
Posts: 1666
Joined: Fri May 09, 2003 1:51 pm
Location: Santa Barbara, Ca.
Contact:

Post #30 by mutt » Mon Jan 26, 2009 3:14 pm

im always on the lookout for the right piece of plexiglas like stuff to make a see thru lifter gallery cover......i thought id take a stock cover & cut most of it away, and sandwich the 'glas between the modded cover & the block.
Im less rocket scientist than tail fin aficianado.....in a van, no less- youd need a neck like a giraffe to gawk at it.
An alloy rockerbox would be swell, but the bang/buck ratio at the low production #'s the big 6would generate....well, thats a limiting factor.
I got a "power by ford" 'box on there now.....im always looking for another variation- that & a rattlecan are within my "bells & whistles" budget........but a see thru distributor cap? That I can budget......

rmt
Registered User
Posts: 416
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 9:56 am
Location: FL.

Post #31 by rmt » Mon Jan 26, 2009 7:24 pm

CNC-Dude wrote: There always have been and will be "bottom feeders" that want something for nothing in all realms. All new markets need a transition period to circulate through the industry. Once products begin to be used by people that become noticed in magazines or in racing or word of mouth, and bring attention to the product or services, then those "bottom feeders" are replaced by customers that appreciate the quality of what you are offering. Many people buy Craftsman tools, but there are also many who desire better.....like Snap-on! Just because you didn't get the initial response from your product, doesn't mean it wasn't fixing to skyrocket and become a fantastic seller. Do you have pics of them. I'd like to see them if you don't mind sharing them.....


No pictures, the foundry man took some measurements, gave me a quote, and was going to just dive in. Old time car guy, lifetime in the aluminum casting business.

As far as the market goes, it has been said one of the first rules is to know your market. I think before that you to be certain you HAVE a market. Unfortunately there just isn't much of one for six cylinder aftermarket parts in general, much less for just one engine. No matter how much we like them.

Roger

User avatar
82F100
Global Moderator
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:00 pm
Location: Phoenix , AZ

Post #32 by 82F100 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:50 pm

rmt wrote:
CNC-Dude wrote: There always have been and will be "bottom feeders" that want something for nothing in all realms. All new markets need a transition period to circulate through the industry. Once products begin to be used by people that become noticed in magazines or in racing or word of mouth, and bring attention to the product or services, then those "bottom feeders" are replaced by customers that appreciate the quality of what you are offering. Many people buy Craftsman tools, but there are also many who desire better.....like Snap-on! Just because you didn't get the initial response from your product, doesn't mean it wasn't fixing to skyrocket and become a fantastic seller. Do you have pics of them. I'd like to see them if you don't mind sharing them.....


No pictures, the foundry man took some measurements, gave me a quote, and was going to just dive in. Old time car guy, lifetime in the aluminum casting business.

As far as the market goes, it has been said one of the first rules is to know your market. I think before that you to be certain you HAVE a market. Unfortunately there just isn't much of one for six cylinder aftermarket parts in general, much less for just one engine. No matter how much we like them.

Roger

But you also have to consider that you may have to chase that market sometimes.Not everyone buys the same car mags that you may have articles in or pursue stuff on the internet. In my experiences in the past you NEED to go to them in their respective areas to get your products known to that market. It'sa small market, I understand but on the same token should not be left unnoticed or left to fade away.
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

User avatar
82F100
Global Moderator
Posts: 929
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 11:00 pm
Location: Phoenix , AZ

Post #33 by 82F100 » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:15 pm

I found my flow numbers from when I had my head work done. Valves are SI 1.90 & 1.60 IIRC, ported to match a Offy dual port intake and MAC 1 5/8 primaries.

Intake Exhaust
.200-149 122

.300-198 149

.400-219 168

.500-226 182

.550-227 187

* note percentage is 83.7%, also intake flow leveled off but exhaust flowed 190cfm @.650 lift #'s are are @ 28" of water on a superflow.
300's make good truck motors....not race motors

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #34 by CNC-Dude » Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:33 pm

[/quote]
But you also have to consider that you may have to chase that market sometimes.Not everyone buys the same car mags that you may have articles in or pursue stuff on the internet. In my experiences in the past you NEED to go to them in their respective areas to get your products known to that market. It's a small market, I understand, but on the same token should not be left unnoticed or left to fade away.


[/quote] I agree, I didn't mean to imply that things such as that just fall into your lap and it is easy. There is a fair share of sweat equity that goes into developing products for the marketplace. And yes, trying to determine if a market even exists is sometimes a gamble in itself either financial or otherwise. The inline enthusiasts seem to be growing in both the vintage and performance markets for all brands. The inlines are starting to become noticed more and more for their HP potential and because people are wanting something different than traditional cookie cutter style V8's for hot rods and street rods. And they definately are getting noticed....

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #35 by Lazy JW » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:28 pm

CNC-Dude wrote: Most all CNC head porting facilities have many different levels or stages of head porting, starting with mild street porting that still incorporates the use of CNC to form and shape the ports in many areas to enhance the head for the customer use ....


Agreed. So we just need maybe four different "levels" of porting to be properly developed on flow benches and each one backed up with dyno time to prove that it really worked, then have these four heads copied on CNC equipment, etc. etc.

As much as I like this idea it just ain't gonna happen on my budget. :cry:
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #36 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:46 pm

my plain on the cnc ported heads was just to scan my head make the tool paths and give it to you all....you would have to find a machine shop to mill it for you but that shouldnt be to hard.

so the CNC head would be free up in till you want to cut it. i no right off hand cnc-dude could cut his own.
but this is only a thought i would have to go back to my high school to use a CMM for free.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #37 by CNC-Dude » Tue Jan 27, 2009 9:23 pm

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:my plain on the cnc ported heads was just to scan my head make the tool paths and give it to you all....you would have to find a machine shop to mill it for you but that shouldnt be to hard.

so the CNC head would be free up in till you want to cut it. i no right off hand cnc-dude could cut his own.
but this is only a thought i would have to go back to my high school to use a CMM for free.
If it would help out, I could do a sample intake and exhaust port for you to take and use the CMM to get your toolplaths! And it might give you some additional ideas also for what you are doing with your head porting project. If you have a bad or cracked head you could saw off the front two ports to make it easier to handle and cheaper to ship, I'll help you any way I can if your interested....

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #38 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:06 pm

well in my class i have to port all 12 ports and flow all of them...so im
mark down with one was the best...so when i take the head back off the truck ill split the best ports and put them up on the cmm.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #39 by CNC-Dude » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:51 pm

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:well in my class i have to port all 12 ports and flow all of them...so im
mark down with one was the best...so when i take the head back off the truck ill split the best ports and put them up on the cmm.
What im saying is ,I can send you a ported intake and exhaust port as a sample for you to copy and use to port your head with for school and then you can CMM it after you finish. This wont be the last head you will port, once you get hooked, you will want to keep going. The sample ports can give you ideas for future reference and something to work with....if your interested!

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #40 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:02 pm

well if you want to send me a head or just a section of a head i would be interested in seeing what you have done to one.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #41 by CNC-Dude » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:15 pm

I've got no real desire to pony up and do a CNC head , im just offering to help you since you started the topic and it would benefit you since you have an end use for it. Plus, it could open many doors of opportunity for you, should you choose to persue this deeper as a hobby or profession.

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #42 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:30 pm

its not necessary for you to give up a head.

but in the end i would like to have a few programs from just cleaning up to all out wild.

but we'll see how it all turns out......
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #43 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Thu Jan 29, 2009 11:14 pm

well to update you all....i have two intake and two exhaust ports done.

i have noticed that the casting is fairly bad. there are big over laps from where the top and bottom castings meet.

also the gasket doesn't line up just right. like if i line up the gasket with bolts #1 exh. is off one way and then #6 is off the other way.

i also started porting the intake.

ill have to remember to bring my camera to school with me so i can take some pic.

also on the superflow1000 we can check the velocity at different points in the port.
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #44 by Lazy JW » Fri Jan 30, 2009 8:37 am

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:.....

i have noticed that the casting is fairly bad.....


Yup, I noticed similar issues as well. Frankly, some of these heads are so bad that almost anything one does in porting will be an improvement.
Keep up the good work,
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

Harte3
VIP Member
Posts: 2643
Joined: Sat Oct 21, 2006 9:17 pm
Location: Spokane, WA

Post #45 by Harte3 » Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:01 pm

+ 1 on the Yup. The casting flash can be ugly.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1470
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Post #46 by CNC-Dude » Mon Feb 16, 2009 12:09 pm

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:well to update you all....i have two intake and two exhaust ports done.

i have noticed that the casting is fairly bad. there are big over laps from where the top and bottom castings meet.

also the gasket doesn't line up just right. like if i line up the gasket with bolts #1 exh. is off one way and then #6 is off the other way.

i also started porting the intake.

ill have to remember to bring my camera to school with me so i can take some pic.

also on the superflow1000 we can check the velocity at different points in the port.
Anymore updates on your progress!

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #47 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:10 pm

iv got all the ports done and both manifolds ported and the turbos ported...i took about 1/4-1/2lb off the intake manifold when i was porting it(it was really bad casting)..haven't done a post flow yet... and still have to cut my valves..."3angle"
im about to order the valve springs, and rockers for my head. im thinking about using the chevy 1.75:1 rockers but does and one have the part# or motor there off of?
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #48 by Lazy JW » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:42 am

Rockers for a 1975 Chebbie 250 Six are the ones to ask for. I got mine from NAPA.
Joe

Edit: I just looked at your original post as you said you have an 85 head. I do NOT know for certain which type rockers that head used; the Chebbie rockers do fit the earlier heads but somewhere along the line Ford switched from the stud-mounted rockers to the "pedestal" mounted type. I have only dealt with the stud mounted heads myself, having never so much as touched a pedestal type.
Joe
Last edited by Lazy JW on Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

User avatar
TCIC 300ci superbeast
Registered User
Posts: 565
Joined: Thu Aug 02, 2007 8:40 pm
Location: yellow springs ohio just south of springfield and just east of fairborn
Contact:

Post #49 by TCIC 300ci superbeast » Tue Feb 17, 2009 7:44 am

i was also reading that ill need push rod guide plates. do the guide plate i need also come on the 70's chevy 250?
1978.5 f250xlt ranger custom super-cab 4x4 "superbeast" turbo300/ZF S542/BW1350/np205d dana 44HD/dana60

dec.1978 f150xlt custom 4x4 "six shooter" parts truck for super beast

2004 2.0 dohc 5speed focus DD "toycar"

truck club OHIO MUD SLINGERS

walk softly and carry a big six

Lazy JW
FSP Moderator
Posts: 5560
Joined: Fri May 16, 2003 10:25 pm
Location: Careywood, Idaho

Post #50 by Lazy JW » Tue Feb 17, 2009 8:10 am

TCIC 300ci superbeast wrote:i was also reading that ill need push rod guide plates. do the guide plate i need also come on the 70's chevy 250?


No.

I'm not experienced with your particular setup but it sounds as if you do indeed have the later type head. I hope someone else will chime in with the correct answers.
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
Image

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER and 31 guests