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pic of 300 with 327 chevy pistons

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nitrousnick
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pic of 300 with 327 chevy pistons

Post #1 by nitrousnick » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:04 pm

going through the 300,new pistons ,more head work,rebalanced

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Post #2 by Luckyman » Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:06 pm

BEAUTIFULL!!!
1 "76" F150 RC, LB, 2WD, 300, NP435, 9" open 3.00, special order 2-76/Delivered 4-76. Still "new".

1 "73-79" F150 RC/SS/SB/4WD, "84"-300, T18, NP205, 9" open 3.50, Dana 44 3.50 open, Offy DP, Holley 470, EFI + single 2.5" exhaust. Gathered from 15+ donor/parts trucks. "Fubar". Runs good, safe, still needs details/project continues.

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Post #3 by 68ranger » Mon Jan 26, 2009 6:31 pm

Did you say 327 pistons? :hmmm: How about some info on them.
Engine looks good. :)

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Post #4 by crash-harris » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:28 pm

Yes indeed, more info please! That looks like it might be a good way for me to regain some lost compression and a little more with the new engine after porting so I won't have to mill the head and risk the valves making love marks ont the pistons :lol:

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Post #5 by Craigwell » Mon Jan 26, 2009 8:44 pm

I'm impressed with the points ignition.. Would you elaborate on why you chose that route?

Thanks for the ...bi-racial engine porn. :shock:
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Gone but not forgotten: 1976 F250 4x4 300 six, NP435. Dana60/44HD 4.10 Traction Lok, EFI Exhaust, 240 Head

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Post #6 by Lazy JW » Mon Jan 26, 2009 10:31 pm

Nice! :D

That isn't just any ol' run-of-the-mill breaker-point distributor there
8) 8) 8) 8) 8) 8)
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Post #7 by nitrousnick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:34 am

to used the chevy pistons you need to deck the block,I have .030 deck clearance and milled the head .050 that gives me 11 to 1 comp.

the dist. I found at a swap meet for 25.00 new.It went 11.80 on a 100 shot of nitrous and ihe ignition didnt miss a beat

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Post #8 by crash-harris » Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:40 pm

Did you use the 300's rods or something else?

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Post #9 by Harte3 » Tue Jan 27, 2009 1:21 pm

True hot rodding at it's finest :!:
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Post #10 by Craigwell » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:24 pm

..so what kind of distributor is that, specifically??
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Gone but not forgotten: 1976 F250 4x4 300 six, NP435. Dana60/44HD 4.10 Traction Lok, EFI Exhaust, 240 Head

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Post #11 by binder56jd » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:39 pm

it is certainly refreshing to have found a forward thinking site/bunch---c h e--cough/choke/gag ---sure seems to have made performance parts for some of the worlds toughest engines--350 valve springs & keepers make an ihc engine rock--now i c them in a ford 6--cool beans---porn, i love it :D
I usta could


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Post #12 by nitrousnick » Tue Jan 27, 2009 5:41 pm

I used 300 rods bushed for floating pins,the bushings were opened up for chevy pin diameter.

the dist. is a mallory dual point,I want to convert to electronic some day.

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Post #13 by mutt » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:00 pm

nice dual point distributor......you think you might run the points thru a Dyna transistor trigger? points last forever (only draws milliamps), spark will stun a rhino.....where ja get that dual pointer, anyhow.

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Post #14 by rmt » Tue Jan 27, 2009 6:22 pm

I have also run a Mallory dual point for a long time. Got mine at a little local speed shop in Marysville, WA. (Schmidt's, out on old 99 north of downtown. Don't suppose they're still there, anyone know?) Brand new, $120. (They're waaay more than that now, this may have been late '80s) Just so happens that was the same price I was about to pay for a reman unit, which was to be the second one I had purchased. No brainer.

The original and it's replacement had worn out in the same fashion and not wanting to go through that again I was looking for just about anything else. They had it sitting on the shelf, been there a good while.

Mutt, know where I can get the information about this Dyna transistor trigger of which you speak? Your head? The one problem with the Mallory is the points from Mallory are doggone expensive even though they last a long time. Other brands are made and a little cheaper, but they don't last as long.

Nick, I have (had?) the part numbers to switch the dual point to a unilite set-up as I intended to do that myself. I can look to see if I can find them. Darn thing works so good I never got around to it. That and the fact the conversion was going to cost more than what I paid for the distributor in the first place.

Mutt's suggestion maybe the way to go. He's known to be a cheapska...,uh, a thrifty fellow so it's probably worth a look as an alternative.

Roger

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Post #15 by Lazy JW » Tue Jan 27, 2009 8:58 pm

rmt wrote: ....know where I can get the information about this Dyna transistor trigger of which you speak? ....


A Ford TFI module can be wired up to be triggered by breaker points and then fire a TFI or HEI type coil. I helped a friend do this on his bent-eight 60's vintage Ford pickup. Works great. Got the info at www.gofastforless.com Also a Chrysler module will work too.
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Post #16 by crash-harris » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:19 pm

So why exactly must the block be decked? You think that using cheb 327 with .4706 lift (1.75 ratio cheb rockers with a comp 252) is doable withouth the valves wailing on the pistons?

Btw, I just found some that had the valve reliefs on both sides and a wristpin diameter or .927 (Isn't that the same as the stock 300 wrist pins?).

I promise that if I have anymore questions I'll write them down and send them together in a PM instead :lol:

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Post #17 by CNC-Dude » Tue Jan 27, 2009 11:09 pm

There are actually (2)different 300 rods that could be used. The early rods have a .912 wrist pin in them, which is the same as the SBF. The later rods have a .975 wrist pin, which makes installing a bushing in them very easy, without having to do any additional machine work. Then you can pin fit them to a .927 Chevy pin. Carrillo makes their bushing for their SBC rods with those specs: .975 OD x .927 ID and is a premium quality bushing, Sealed Power also offers an inexpensive one as well. I believe they offer both rods with and without the oil spit holes, the ones without being the better choice....

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Post #18 by Lazy JW » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:30 am

crash-harris wrote:.....

I promise that if I have anymore questions I'll write them down and send them together in a PM instead :lol:


Please ask those questions on the forum so we all can learn.
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Post #19 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jan 28, 2009 10:48 am

Hmmm. I have used Chevy 350 pistons in 300 with a stock length rod. I don't think the 327 and 350 have the same compression distance as they use the same rod. What is the compression height of a 327 and a 350 Chevy piston?
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Post #20 by CNC-Dude » Wed Jan 28, 2009 11:47 am

350 has a comp. hgt. of 1.560" and the 327 has 1.675" comp. hgt. both with a 5.700' rod length and .927 wrist pin size....

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Post #21 by mutt » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:09 pm

http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/product ... _Boosters/

great product support & service. Its a 12 volt motocycle component but it might serve your purpose.

Chap? I throw nickles around like manhole covers.....

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Post #22 by rmt » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:36 pm

oop.
Last edited by rmt on Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post #23 by rmt » Wed Jan 28, 2009 1:36 pm

mutt wrote:http://www.dynaonline.com/skins/products/accessories/Dyna_Boosters/

great product support & service. Its a 12 volt motocycle component but it might serve your purpose.

Chap? I throw nickles around like manhole covers.....


Thanks mutt.

You too Joe, again. (have the link from before)

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Post #24 by crash-harris » Sat Jan 31, 2009 8:40 pm

350 pistons might me a little more within my build scope (guessing the compression is a little higher then stock EFI maybe?).

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Post #25 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Feb 04, 2009 4:56 pm

CNC-Dude wrote:350 has a comp. hgt. of 1.560" and the 327 has 1.675" comp. hgt. both with a 5.700' rod length and .927 wrist pin size....


Ergo, with stock 300 rods the 327 pistons cannot work in a 300 - they would stick out the block. They are probably 350s.
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Post #26 by CNC-Dude » Wed Feb 04, 2009 5:50 pm

Federal Mogul has a stock replacement 300 piston listed with a compression height of 1.767", and Keith Black has a stock replacement 300 piston listed with a compression height of 1.778". Sealed Power has several pistons listed with compression hgts. in between these two. The 300 has a compression hgt. much taller than either the 350 or 327, if the 300's don't stick out of the block, neither will the 350 or 327 pistons. In fact, they will be farther in the hole than the 300 piston will be....just doing the math, at a minimum, the 350 piston with a 1.560" comp.hgt. would be in the hole .200 farther than the stock 300 piston would be. The 327 would only be slightly better with .100 down in the hole.Unless you plan on decking the block that much, neither one of those choices(350,327)will give you any compression....the ideal deck clearance being .005-.010! The starter would spin it over just as fast with the plugs in than it would if they were out....

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Post #27 by nitrousnick » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:02 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
CNC-Dude wrote:350 has a comp. hgt. of 1.560" and the 327 has 1.675" comp. hgt. both with a 5.700' rod length and .927 wrist pin size....


Ergo, with stock 300 rods the 327 pistons cannot work in a 300 - they would stick out the block. They are probably 350s.


well I decked the block .100 ,and this is the second set of 327 chevy pistons the first ons were keith black hyper,went to forged ,rods are bushed for floating pins.350 chevy pistons wont work because the compression hight is too small.I have to mill 100 off the deck to make the 327 pistons work so I dont know how anyone could use 350 pistons

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Post #28 by CNC-Dude » Wed Feb 04, 2009 9:14 pm

Ok, that was the missing key to the puzzle! Just doing the math wasn't explaining how the shorter piston height was working. So decking the block .100 will allow you to use the 327 comp.hgt. piston. Thanks for clearing that up for us....

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Post #29 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:30 pm

Well I did the math in my head the first time and I guess I screwed up. I stand corrected. But I do know I have built a 300 with 350 pistons - I guess I must have used the 240 rods (6.79 long) and shaved a little off to get them in there. Its been a while.

I don't recommend milling .100 off the block or head though, as those surfaces seal in the compression pressure. Head gasket sealing can be an issue.
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Post #30 by CNC-Dude » Thu Feb 05, 2009 1:36 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Well I did the math in my head the first time and I guess I screwed up. I stand corrected. But I do know I have built a 300 with 350 pistons - I guess I must have used the 240 rods (6.79 long) and shaved a little off to get them in there. Its been a while.

I don't recommend milling .100 off the block or head though, as those surfaces seal in the compression pressure. Head gasket sealing can be an issue.
I agree with you on decking the block that much! But I guess everyone's got to try it just once. That 240 rod swap sounds interesting, how did it perform....

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Post #31 by crash-harris » Thu Feb 05, 2009 9:50 pm

How much would you normally deck the block...or plane the head for like a stock rebuild? Or do even really need to?

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Post #32 by CNC-Dude » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:07 pm

It depends on several things, mostly how well taken care of the engine has been. On long engines, like 6's, with high miles you can expect to cut .008-.010 off the block to get it back straight and square. If its been run hot many times, as many of the newer heads seem to be a light weight casting and prone to cracking anyway, i've seen .020 cut on a head still not clean the surface up completely. So, you never know, especially if you buy an engine that you can't see or hear running.

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Post #33 by crash-harris » Thu Feb 05, 2009 10:30 pm

Thanks to Dakota (TC300ci) I got mine for free, not exactly sure where he got it. Aside from having leaves stuck to it, I think the head is in pretty good condition. I guess I'll just have to see when I go to have all the cutting done.

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Post #34 by Lazy JW » Fri Feb 06, 2009 12:21 am

crash-harris wrote:How much would you normally deck the block...or plane the head for like a stock rebuild? Or do even really need to?


My block only needed about .025" to get to zero-deck.
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Post #35 by Harte3 » Fri Feb 06, 2009 1:02 pm

I missed out on the concept of zero decking when having mine rebuilt...just told the shop .010 off head and block for clean up/truing with a cr between 8.5-9.0 with 9.0 the maximum.
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Post #36 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:05 pm

CNC-Dude wrote: That 240 rod swap sounds interesting, how did it perform....


Most all of the serious hard-core drag racers I've known have used the 240 length rods (or an aftermarket equivalent). They are easier on the cylinder walls and piston skirts and ring packs, and not as aggressive around TDC in a cylinder that is too large for the port area. They are useful for a high RPM application and nearly worthless for a performance increase in a street driven beast.

6RE6
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Post #37 by rmt » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:45 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:6RE6


Good one. :)

RO6ER (I won't steal it, but I like it)

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Post #38 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Feb 08, 2009 11:33 am

rmt wrote:
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:6RE6


Good one. :)

RO6ER (I won't steal it, but I like it)


Don't know why it took me so long to think that up. Run with it RO6...

Who else is out there? CRAI6? 6EROGE? 6AIL? PE66Y?
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Post #39 by CNC-Dude » Sun Feb 08, 2009 2:41 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
CNC-Dude wrote: That 240 rod swap sounds interesting, how did it perform....


Most all of the serious hard-core drag racers I've known have used the 240 length rods (or an aftermarket equivalent). They are easier on the cylinder walls and piston skirts and ring packs, and not as aggressive around TDC in a cylinder that is too large for the port area. They are useful for a high RPM application and nearly worthless for a performance increase in a street driven beast.

6RE6
Im familiar with the long rod concept, I've built many past and current Super Stock,Comp Eliminator and Pro Stock engines for a lot of national record holders for nearly 25 years, and those type of things are a part of the engine development program. But more specifically, the durability of the stock 240 rod in a moderately prepped race engine, as far as strength and how well they might hold up to higher RPM levels. I've used the 300 rods in a 400 cubic inch SBF dirt track engine on several occassions with fairly high compression and high RPM with good results, and was just curious how the 240 rod might compare. Thanks!

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Post #40 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Feb 08, 2009 7:41 pm

Your racing background sounds quite imprerssive. The last serious world class racer I know of who was actually using a 240 rod was Sizemore on the Prep H car, not the XFLO Pinto. He had the plant make him a set of rods and deleted the big-end oil squirt holes to improve reliability by eliminating the stress riser. Some early 240 rods with the .912 pin size did not have factory oil squirt holes, but not many. I think the 240 rods will work as well as a stock 300 rod, which incidentally has a design strength factor of safety of 2.6.

Are you using 240 rods to keep costs down? TRW makes bushings to take the pin size of the later rods from .975 down to .927., or maybe .912, I've forgotten which. Good for V8 piston swaps.

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Post #41 by CNC-Dude » Sun Feb 08, 2009 9:11 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Your racing background sounds quite imprerssive. The last serious world class racer I know of who was actually using a 240 rod was Sizemore on the Prep H car, not the XFLO Pinto. He had the plant make him a set of rods and deleted the big-end oil squirt holes to improve reliability by eliminating the stress riser. Some early 240 rods with the .912 pin size did not have factory oil squirt holes, but not many. I think the 240 rods will work as well as a stock 300 rod, which incidentally has a design strength factor of safety of 2.6.

Are you using 240 rods to keep costs down? TRW makes bushings to take the pin size of the later rods from .975 down to .927., or maybe .912, I've forgotten which. Good for V8 piston swaps.

6RE6
No, just future reference. It seemed like a simple and similar swap I had done with the 300 rods, only with a V8 usage. I respect your feedback cause I know you would probably have put them to the test, and could give a true evaluation of their capability....and you did! Thanks a bunch. I've also got much experience with the Cheby 292 inline 6 at the Comp Eliminator level as well, and feel that there are many similarities for performance modifications that can and will work for the 300's and other Ford 6's. Mostly in the area of cylinder head porting, but also, anything else. Even though there probably isn't going to be anyone here that will attempt anything at the Comp level, but anything from stock street performance to that level can be had, and I'd be glad to help anyone reach whatever performance goal they want to obtain with any info I can give them!

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Post #42 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:34 pm

CNC-Dude wrote:Even though there probably isn't going to be anyone here that will attempt anything at the Comp level...


Thanks for the offer. I visited a very successful Comp racer using the 240 head (who shall remain nameless) last month and my jaw dropped when I saw the lengths he was going to in his quest for more performance. I take my hat off to you guys and am green with envy. But that level of involvement is too rich for my blood and I would have to give up other projects to give Comp racing a go, and I do not wish to do that. I'll remain a bracket racin' punk.
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Post #43 by CNC-Dude » Mon Feb 09, 2009 10:44 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
CNC-Dude wrote:Even though there probably isn't going to be anyone here that will attempt anything at the Comp level...


Thanks for the offer. I visited a very successful Comp racer using the 240 head (who shall remain nameless) last month and my jaw dropped when I saw the lengths he was going to in his quest for more performance. I take my hat off to you guys and am green with envy. But that level of involvement is too rich for my blood and I would have to give up other projects to give Comp racing a go, and I do not wish to do that. I'll remain a bracket racin' punk.
Comp has just gotten way out of control money-wise. An average guy with an average job used to be able to halfway compete and do well in that class 10 or 15 years ago. Bracket racing is more fun and less politics....

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