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serpentine belt conversion

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thelastf100
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serpentine belt conversion

Post #1 by thelastf100 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:24 am

i want to convert my belts to serpentine, what i want to know is can i just change the pulley's from V to serpentine along with the water pump are will i have to change the bracket's also,,,,thank's
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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shortbox07
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #2 by shortbox07 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:56 am

i asked the same question a while ago with not much luck. problem is that the crank doesnt have a pulley that just unbolts, its built into the harmonic balancer. the problem was that i didnt have a balancer for a newer f.i. motor (and didnt want to buy one) if someone else is willing to try this and has the parts id be curious if they work or not. my motor is getting pulled soon and freshened up, so it would be a perfect time to do this swap.
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!

my "six" collection
78' f-100 shortbox 300
67' mustang coupe 200

thelastf100
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #3 by thelastf100 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:51 pm

hello, yes i am mocking up my 300 with a S/C i have a fi motor(SERPENTINE) that i am using for mock up but the engine that i am puting this on is a carb motor(v-belt) and that's what i want to know is will i be able when done to just take off the pulley's,water pump and H/BALLANCE from the FI motor and install it on the carb engine in my truck. i seen a few engine with serpentine belt's and they look like all the bracket's were the same as v-belt's, i can't do anything till my offey intake come's in mybe by then someone will reply with some help,,,,i may have another H/BALLANCE at the junk yard if you were still lookin ,,,,,thank's
Last edited by thelastf100 on Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #4 by shortbox07 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:14 pm

every thing else should bolt on no problem, it was just the harmonic balancer that was in question. if it bolts on it will work. let me know if it does work because that is the route that i want to go.
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

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AbandonedBronco
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #5 by AbandonedBronco » Fri Jun 12, 2009 2:39 pm

Why go through the work of converting to a serpentine? (Not putting it down, I'm genuinely curious.)
1985 Ford Bronco Eddie Bauer. 300 I6. 9.1:1 CR, roller rockers, EFI manifolds and 2.5" exhaust. DUI ignition. 3.55 final drive, 5 speed ZF5. Holley Sniper EFI w/Offenhauser C Intake. 32" BFG KO2 A/Ts.

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #6 by thelastf100 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 3:42 pm

well they look alot better and cleaner most of the time you just us 1 belt,and they say it boost power a lil and eliminate thrown belt's
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #7 by Stealth Bummer » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:12 pm

Hmmmm...I'm curious about the power increase. The belt still goes around the same number of pullies, plus an idler pulley and a tensioner. Seems unlikely to provide any performance gain.
1959 F100, Short-wide box, big back window, IFS, 300/C4 trans (work in progress)
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #8 by ludwig » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:16 pm

They have a serpentine re-fit kit for the Mustangs. Supposed to be the hot tip. At least for the vendor. Just lining up all the pulleys is a chore.

But there's gotta be a reason Ford went from two or three belts to one. Maybe it is just cheaper to install at the factory. Costs 80 beans to replace it at Jiffy Lube. For that, you just need the belt and a breaker bar to pull the tensioner over and slip the belt off and the new one back on.

Sorta like the 'high tech tune up' on EFI engines.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #9 by 300 6 JEEP » Fri Jun 12, 2009 7:51 pm

I did the swap on my 300 I just got all the stuff off a newer model and everything bolted up nicely:) I went with for the sole purpose of not throwing any more belts with all of the mud and water I got through it has helped out a lot not one thrown belt.
"CLANK" It is alright she WILL hold together!
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NP435 with Granny low
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Dana 44's Front and Rear Locked
and loves to beat up V8's

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #10 by thelastf100 » Fri Jun 12, 2009 8:38 pm

did you just change the pulley's h-ballance and the water pump or all of the bracket's also,,,thank's
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #11 by shortbox07 » Sat Jun 13, 2009 12:50 pm

i just want it for looks. dont really expect any performance gain, nor had i heard of such.
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

rikard
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #12 by rikard » Sat Jun 13, 2009 1:26 pm

I'm not sure about the 300 but many engines use a reverse rotation water pump on serpentine belt systems. Having had both systems I like the serps over the multi v belts just because its easier to change. One of my trucks had five v belts and of course the inner most one decided to fail. I would also think about going to dual electric fans from a 3.8l Taurus, especially if your going mudding.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #13 by Ranger_gone_straight » Sat Jun 13, 2009 2:22 pm

I have no intention of swapping to serpentine and see no point just to run a 60A alternator and a power steering pump. However the flat grooved belts are more efficient at transferring power than v-belts and can handle transfer of more power, important if for example you have some monster alternator for whatever reason. Notice one grooved belt can now do what it took several v-belts to do. I've noticed price of v-belts going up as fewer vehicles use them so eventually just the economics of replacement might make it worth it.

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #14 by Lazy JW » Sat Jun 13, 2009 11:25 pm

Serpentine poly-groove belts can definitely transfer more power; I believe this is the primary reason the manufacturers switched. When they started using stock alternators that put out well over 100+ amps, the v-belts just had too much trouble handling the job. They were already running double vees and going to triples just didn't make much sense. Plus trying to drive all those other gadgets like A/C pumps, power steering, and smog pump.

Much easier to just line them all up, use one belt and an automatic spring tension gizmo that never needs re-adjusted and you're all set. I dare say that the serpentine drives are easier on all those little bearings too. I would have to have all of the stuff sitting there for free before I would bother switching though.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #15 by thelastf100 » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:19 am

thank's joe, yes that's why i want to go with a serpentine i am installing a blower on my 300, magnacharger said that i will not have any problem's with the 300-6 serpentine belt but if i want to use v belt's i will need 2,,,,,,,thank's
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #16 by willowbilly3 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:08 pm

I had a complete efi engine and thought about using the serpentine system until I had it all off and in a pile, and pile is a good description. If you could somehow simplify that horrendous assemblage of cast aluminum I think the serpentine is a good idea but putting that pile of caca on my engine just for a flat belt didn't seem worth it. However my Econoline is serpentine and will remain so.
Also remember the water pumps run the other way on most serpentine Fords.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #17 by ludwig » Tue Jun 16, 2009 6:15 pm

Also remember the water pumps run the other way on most serpentine Fords.


'Zat a problem? Standard water pump is just a wheel with paddles. It's not an archimedes screw.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #18 by 300 6 JEEP » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:22 pm

yes I just got all of the brackets and water pump off an efi but I used a 100amp GM alternater because I was already running it.
"CLANK" It is alright she WILL hold together!

300 with some goodies:) Soon to be FI

NP435 with Granny low

Dana 300 T-case

Dana 44's Front and Rear Locked

and loves to beat up V8's

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #19 by thelastf100 » Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:52 pm

yep, i just got all the bracket's off the FI motor today i will be installing them this week and then i will be mocking it up for the supercharger to run on the serpentine belt,,,thank's,,,
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #20 by shortbox07 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:15 am

so my question was: do the two harmonic balancers interchange? i would assume from previous posts that is the case. but would like to hear a "yes they do"
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #21 by worken2much » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:31 am

Yes they do.

I used a 1995 crank in a 300 and put the V-belt single groove harmonic balancer from a 1967 240 on it. Consequently going the other way will work just fine as well.

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #22 by thelastf100 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:02 pm

hey shortbox 07 do you have IFS or drop i beam's with air bag's on the front,,,thank's
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #23 by shortbox07 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 1:52 pm

Its not done yet, but its an ifs from a 97 crown vic. That's the reason I'm trying to figure this out. I have a p.s. Pump from a late 80's 302 with a serp pulley on it and will use that pump if I can.
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

thelastf100
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #24 by thelastf100 » Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:53 pm

yeh that 302 pump will work, so you want to go with all serpentine,,,,,,keith
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #25 by Thad » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:43 pm

300 Serp waterpump is shorter than V-belt waterpump and reverse rotation.
No, impeller is not as simple as a paddle wheel. Centrif pumps suck in the middle and slings the water out ward, there is a directional flow generate tangential to the blades in direction of impeller rotation. The discharge outlet is angled to align with the flow from the blade tips. Reversing the rotaion the flow would be across the outlet rather than into.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #26 by ludwig » Thu Jun 18, 2009 9:34 am

I kinda suspected that. Seems to me that if the impeller was press to fit, it could be taken off and flipped to get the flow in the right direction. But hey, this other guy is actually doing it, not me. So that shows you what my opinion is worth.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #27 by shortbox07 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:16 pm

so if i change water pumps (which i planned on anyway) to the efi pump it should be fine?
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

thelastf100
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #28 by thelastf100 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:43 pm

you said the p.s. pump not the water pump but you will have to change that also
shortbox07 wrote:Its not done yet, but its an ifs from a 97 crown vic. That's the reason I'm trying to figure this out. I have a p.s. Pump from a late 80's 302 with a serp pulley on it and will use that pump if I can.
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #29 by ludwig » Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:46 pm

I'm thinking the alternator and PS pumps are good since they run the same direction as the crankshaft drive pulley. The water pump would run the opposite direction IF the belt runs UNDER the pulley and not over the top of it it as in the stock application.
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #30 by shortbox07 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:00 pm

Thad wrote:300 Serp waterpump is shorter than V-belt waterpump and reverse rotation.


i was replying to this
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

thelastf100
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #31 by thelastf100 » Thu Jun 18, 2009 5:42 pm

no big deal, do you have all the part's that you need
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #32 by shortbox07 » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:02 am

as far as the brackets and whatnot go...no i dont. i have the p.s. pump, thats about it.
A guy at the local parts store once asked me if i own any vehicles that aren't made up of 10 other vehicles ... i replied whats the fun in that!



my "six" collection

78' f-100 shortbox 300

67' mustang coupe 200

thelastf100
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #33 by thelastf100 » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:41 pm

i'll look at the yard and see what we have i know we have the pass side bracket for the alternator,,,,,
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #34 by thelastf100 » Tue Jun 23, 2009 4:52 pm

willowbilly3 wrote:I had a complete efi engine and thought about using the serpentine system until I had it all off and in a pile, and pile is a good description. thaIf you could somehow simplify that horrendous assemblage of cast aluminum I think the serpentine is a good idea but putting t pile of caca on my engine just for a flat belt didn't seem worth it. However my Econoline is serpentine and will remain so.
Also remember the water pumps run the other way on most serpentine Fords.

And as for as that horrendous 2 peace's of cast aluminum caca on my engine i will do what i do to all my aluminum and bracket's POLISH,POLISH,POLISH. i get more compliment's at the show's about my polish alum bracket's than i do about anything else so i cant wait till i put the 2 peace's of horrendous polish cast aluminum on my motor,as a mater of fact i just pick up a 10 inch dual bench polisher with 6 foot flex polisher/grinder at harbor freight got a deal my 21 year old gril friend work's there,,,,thank's,,,, i'll be back
1983 F100, mp112ci MANGNACHARGER 300-6 ,OFFY INTAKE, 600 cfm CARB, HOOKER HEADERS, port & polish head work, c4 TCI streetfighter trans and converter 2400 stall, 4-LINK, 9 inch strang rearend 350:1, MSD-6, fbss air bags, JDM DREAM BEAMS, 275X45X20 MOMO WHEELS, BIG ALUM RADIATOR,,,,300-6 rearengine dragster coming soon,,, http://photobucket.com/thelastf100

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #35 by Craigwell » Thu Jun 25, 2009 10:59 pm

Ok here's my bit..

I may inadvertantly be running an EFI/Serpentine water pump backwards on my highboy - on which I'm using V Belt gear. (I used an efi shortblock there, and think i retained the same pump from it.) This truck runs hot, but seems to be circulating fine, in as much as the interior heater (not high output) works very well for a super cab. I'll check the casting #.

I also have all the serpentine parts lying around, and had been uptight about the "ugly brackets" as well as the internal reg alternator. I like my reg on the rh inner fender, thank you very much.

But I also now see the wiring for either is quite simple, and acknowledge the brackets dont need to be so ugly. Serpentine belt has less frictional losses / heat generation and degradation than the V's, but I've always chafed at the idea of replacing tensioners. Peeves me.

I stepped one of my double V 60A alts down to single belt on the same pulley, and it hasn't given me any grief.

Lister engine / generator forums that are out there talk a lot about the serpentine advantage - someone even makes custom serpentine pulleys that are available for them now.
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Gone but not forgotten: 1976 F250 4x4 300 six, NP435. Dana60/44HD 4.10 Traction Lok, EFI Exhaust, 240 Head

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anyone actually do this?

Post #36 by Boomzilla » Fri May 25, 2018 12:22 pm

Sorry to resurrect the dead post, I can't find much else on the subject and didn't want to start the whole convo over from scratch..

I'm considering converting to a serpentine belt on my 83 e-150. I'm already digging around up there for the water pump and replacing the AC compressor and a few other bits and pieces anyways.

I'll be checking yards for EFI engines but haven't found any threads where someone actually did this and made it work, so before I get my hands dirty let me ask a few questions:

1: best parts vehicles? Would basically any efi Ford 300 with AC work?

2: how much of a PITA are we talking about? I can turn a wrench but most of that's on forklifts and industrial equipment.

3: parts list: Brackets and pulleys, harmonic balancer, water pump, AC compressor, anything else? I already converted to an electric radiator fan.

The rest of the plan for this summer is AC, offenhauser intake, 2bbl carb, EFI exhaust manifold, water pump, steering gear box, levelers for the front suspension, and airbags for the rear end, and a lot of misc cab and wiring stuff.

Thanks all for reading~

80f150custom
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Re: anyone actually do this?

Post #37 by 80f150custom » Tue Jun 11, 2019 6:39 pm

Boomzilla wrote:Sorry to resurrect the dead post, I can't find much else on the subject and didn't want to start the whole convo over from scratch..

I'm considering converting to a serpentine belt on my 83 e-150. I'm already digging around up there for the water pump and replacing the AC compressor and a few other bits and pieces anyways.

I'll be checking yards for EFI engines but haven't found any threads where someone actually did this and made it work, so before I get my hands dirty let me ask a few questions:

1: best parts vehicles? Would basically any efi Ford 300 with AC work?

2: how much of a PITA are we talking about? I can turn a wrench but most of that's on forklifts and industrial equipment.

3: parts list: Brackets and pulleys, harmonic balancer, water pump, AC compressor, anything else? I already converted to an electric radiator fan.

The rest of the plan for this summer is AC, offenhauser intake, 2bbl carb, EFI exhaust manifold, water pump, steering gear box, levelers for the front suspension, and airbags for the rear end, and a lot of misc cab and wiring stuff.

Thanks all for reading~


Did you end up converting over? I've contemplated doing this as well.
Jason

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #38 by Mdixon300f100 » Tue Jun 11, 2019 8:05 pm

rikard wrote:I'm not sure about the 300 but many engines use a reverse rotation water pump on serpentine belt systems. Having had both systems I like the serps over the multi v belts just because its easier to change. One of my trucks had five v belts and of course the inner most one decided to fail. I would also think about going to dual electric fans from a 3.8l Taurus, especially if your going mudding.
regards
rikard


I guess you’ve never laid in a snow bank in the rain to untangle a shredded belt from 8 pulleys and replace a seized idler before. Then reroute a new belt in the dark. I’ve had belts slip and still be able to get home, when a serp goes, your stranded. I find comfort in being able to loosen a few bolts and change however many v belts I need to, before going through that again. Yes serps look cleaner, and simplifies parts gathering, but a pair of pantyhose in the glove can do that and more for a lost v belt...

My 2 cents...

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Econoline
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #39 by Econoline » Tue Jun 11, 2019 10:16 pm

I disagree. When you change the belt you throw the old one behind the seat and you've always got a spare. Don't get me me wrong, I feel your pain. I haven't had my idler fail but I've been nursing it(idler) for squealing every few years for 10 years with spray lube b/c I'm too lazy to swap it out. And the aftermarket one is probably inferior to the old worn out 93 ford one on there. But when I do, I'll throw the old one back with the belt. The junkyards are full of 87-96 f150's, you can pull everything you need for cheap if it will all bolt on. Mine is stock but I know advantages over a v-belt are a stronger belt with better grip that's way easier to change out b/c the idler(you do want that little diagram sticker to show you how it goes around, make on of those for you setup ;)). I wish I had a serpentine setup in my van.
It ain't gonna fix itself

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #40 by sdiesel » Thu Jun 13, 2019 12:42 am

I have done this conversion.
it works.
the f.i. head is different than the carb head.
on the driver side there will be one hole on the bracket, with no place to go.
it just hangs there in the air if ur using carb head.
as there is no threaded hole in the carb head to attach.
everything else works.
a Taurus fan is very close to the water pump, but clears and is a definite enhancement
there are impeller differences between years, I believe there is one pump that has impellers that pull from either rotation.
serps are quieter, will pull more amps, provide a spot for a/c, and a place to fab in another accessory if you choose to delete the air pump.
they are less troublesome from a bracket and bolt perspective.
the idler are weak. but good for 30k or so.
I've never broken a serp belt, but I'm careful with my maintenance. u can clearly see when they are losing patience with life.

brackets clear everything else on an old motor like dist . etc.
harmonic balancers.
we should all buy new good quality balancers periodically.
80 bucks or so.
I don't have any negatives to report with mine.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #41 by curts56 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 1:26 am

I was going to convert to serpentine, but I was concerned about stress to the aluminum bracket because of the missing mounting boss on the head.

arse_sidewards
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #42 by arse_sidewards » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:00 am

sdiesel wrote:I have done this conversion.
it works.
the f.i. head is different than the carb head.
on the driver side there will be one hole on the bracket, with no place to go.
it just hangs there in the air if ur using carb head.
as there is no threaded hole in the carb head to attach.
everything else works.
a Taurus fan is very close to the water pump, but clears and is a definite enhancement
there are impeller differences between years, I believe there is one pump that has impellers that pull from either rotation.
serps are quieter, will pull more amps, provide a spot for a/c, and a place to fab in another accessory if you choose to delete the air pump.
they are less troublesome from a bracket and bolt perspective.
the idler are weak. but good for 30k or so.
I've never broken a serp belt, but I'm careful with my maintenance. u can clearly see when they are losing patience with life.

brackets clear everything else on an old motor like dist . etc.
harmonic balancers.
we should all buy new good quality balancers periodically.
80 bucks or so.
I don't have any negatives to report with mine.


Idlers last waaay more than 30k.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #43 by jgregg13 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 6:33 pm

curts56 wrote:I was going to convert to serpentine, but I was concerned about stress to the aluminum bracket because of the missing mounting boss on the head.


Yes, this could be an issue all right. There is a boss lower and forward a bit that probably could be drilled and tapped to bolt an adapter plate to and you would have to shorten the lug on the aluminum P/S bracket to make room for the adapter plate. You might also be able to drill and tap the bottom of the front valve cover bolt boss to help support an adapter. If you need the aluminum mount brackets, I would look for the P/S bracket from a van as these have the Saginaw pump which generally runs quieter than the Ford one.

EFI head
Image
Carb head
Image

Another small issue is the lower alternator bolt interfering with the belt if the A.I.R. pump is removed. You can countersink the bracket and use a flathead bolt instead. I couldn't find a flathead bolt the right size so I tapered the backside of the bolt head in the lathe instead.

Image

The serpentine belts have the advantage of transmitting more power, flexing easier so are more efficient, because they can bend both ways you can get more pulley wrap with idlers if necessary and the spring loaded tensioner eliminates tension adjustments.

80f150custom
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #44 by 80f150custom » Thu Jun 13, 2019 9:28 pm

Has anyone tried doing this conversion with an electric water pump?

Jason

arse_sidewards
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #45 by arse_sidewards » Fri Jun 14, 2019 4:42 pm

For anyone who doesn't need power steering and a/c, you can take a piece of 3/8 steel flat stock, drill holes in it for the thermostat housing, the two bolts on the head on either side of the housing and then another hole to mount the tensioner. If you get it right you can have multiple positions to clock the tensioner (allowing you to be flexible about belt size just in case). 3/8 gives you the perfect offset forward of the head to make the stock tensioner work and with the touch of a file on the thermostat housing the belt won't rub. You can omit the top pass side bolt if you want and it will probably be good. I chose to include it. I don't recall if that hole is tapped from the factory or if I had to tap it. In any case you have to mill the plate thinner there or it will conflict with the thermostat housing. Of course I milled it to thin for the bolt I had and had to shove a washer under it. I forget what size stock I used but I wanna say I started with like a 4x8 scrap or something like that. I used RTV and nothing else to seal it. When I take if off to machine O-ring grooves I'll measure it and post dimensional drawings. Yes, I know finish isn't that great but I don't care. Use your imagination if you want it to look good.
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1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #46 by jgregg13 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:42 am

Here's my belt routing without the A.I.R. pump and with an A/C compressor added. To establish the belt length I used an old broken belt, clamped it together with vice grips and marked first, then take off stretch out and measure the length.

Image
Image

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #47 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Jun 15, 2019 9:38 am

I checked out your build thread John. Nice work. I'd take any of your recommendations to the bank.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

sdiesel
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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #48 by sdiesel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 12:56 am

in the reimagination of our obsolete, engines, it's useful to consider upgrading to a 3 g ford alternator and the safer pigtail, while adding the serp. belt.
it's a marvelous improvement overy the truly junk alternators ford had been using.

power steering pumps: the ford pump rocks. if u are aware of one small detail.
u must install the ford pulley so that 1/8 " if the shaft is exposed on the forward side of the pump pulley.
if not -side loading will make short work of ur rebuild.
you don't rebuild ur pumps?!!
6 dollar kit , 45 minutes and the ford pump will work for thousands of miles.

I have not had any issues with the lacking bolt attachment on the drivers side.
bracket may someday crack, but has not yet.

to add to the advantage of a serp belt system, I have been told, though I cannot verify this, that a serp. belt system reduces bearing side load on accessories.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #49 by sdiesel » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:07 am

the a.i.r. pump, if not used for its original purpose (and I highly recommend using the system if possible), I believe, can be repurposed.
I vaguely recall developing the pump housing into a dummy idler, so I could use the pump as a "relay", wherein it ran another belt that ran a vtwin air conditioning pump from a chrysler mounted on the inner fender, to provide me on board air.
I hedge a bit , as I have not finished this modification and have not laid eyes on my project for 2 years or so. my recollection is that this will work, using an a/c clutch to engage, disengage. at any rate filling that space with the original pump housing, makes for easy belt routing.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: serpentine belt conversion

Post #50 by arse_sidewards » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:07 pm

With the 300 we're really spoiled with how good the belt routing is. We can get close to 180deg wraps on everything with no extraneous idlers and no components hanging way off in space.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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