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DS2 swap

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79granada
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DS2 swap

Post #1 by 79granada » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:42 am

so ive got the carb and will be ordering the distributor this week to swap my stock 86 to DS2 from tfi. anything i need besides distributor cap rotor carb and brain box? and is there any tips to help me out?
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

Harte3
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #2 by Harte3 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 9:52 am

'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #3 by 79granada » Wed Oct 24, 2012 7:28 pm

was also wondering what i do for a coil
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

Harte3
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #4 by Harte3 » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:08 pm

Any stock equivalent coil is fine.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #5 by 79granada » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:25 pm

so when i buy a new distributor will it have the wiring there for the coil
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

Lazy JW
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #6 by Lazy JW » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:41 pm

Since you already own the TFI coil, I would use it. But you need to use a GM 4-pin module. That is what I am running on my White Ox. Check out www.gofastforless.com for details.
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #7 by 79granada » Wed Oct 24, 2012 8:59 pm

thanks for that jw i kinda like that idea but in kinda wondering about the heatg sink problems he brought up. would i be correct to say all i would have to do is take a coil wiring clip off of a ds2 truck at the junkyard and use the ds2 coil correct
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

Lazy JW
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #8 by Lazy JW » Wed Oct 24, 2012 10:42 pm

79granada wrote:... would i be correct to say all i would have to do is take a coil wiring clip off of a ds2 truck at the junkyard and use the ds2 coil correct


Yes.
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #9 by 79granada » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:00 am

jw, have you done this swap if so how does the gm module work for you?
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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CoupeBoy
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #10 by CoupeBoy » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:16 am

I have the ds2/gm 4 pin in my mustang. It has been working great for about 10years now. But I am using a standard 12v coil. I mounted the module on a piece of aluminum with a liberal amount of heat transfer goo.

Lazy JW
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #11 by Lazy JW » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:20 am

The GM module swap works great. I had several failures of the stock Ford DS2 modules, but have never had a problem as of yet with the GM module.
YMMV.

The GM module was designed to run a high-inductance coil (specifically the GM HEI coil) and the Ford TFI coil is practically identical. The DS2 module was not intended to be used with a coil having such low primary resistance, so it would likely have a shortened life span, although some folks claim to have used the TFI coil on a DS2 module successfully.

I used a big chunk of scrap aluminum to mount my GM module on; it is big enough for two modules but I have never bothered with mounting a spare.

The main thing is to get something to use as a heat sink; if you have access to junk computer parts you could probably use a heat sink for a CPU.

Good luck,
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #12 by CoupeBoy » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:46 am

I wonder if that is the cause of my recent "dying" issue. The problem began last summer. At idle in gear it will just die like it lost power to the ignition. But it fires right back up and runs down the road without problem. Since it isn't anywhere close to a daily driver I had been procrastinating to perform the repair/diagnosis.

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #13 by 79granada » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:24 am

so do i use the gm module with the ds2 module or not (i have a hard time picturing things if i am not looking at them)
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

Harte3
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #14 by Harte3 » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:05 am

Either module would be used as a stand-alone unit.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #15 by Lazy JW » Thu Oct 25, 2012 12:18 pm

Harte3 wrote:Either module would be used as a stand-alone unit.


Correct. You use one or the other, but not both.
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #16 by 79granada » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:13 pm

the more i think about it i am going with the gm module
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Asa
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #17 by Asa » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:18 pm

79granada wrote:thanks for that jw i kinda like that idea but in kinda wondering about the heatg sink problems he brought up. would i be correct to say all i would have to do is take a coil wiring clip off of a ds2 truck at the junkyard and use the ds2 coil correct

Heat sink is dead simple, I just used a piece of aluminum about 3/16th of an inch thick, 'bout 2x6" wide.

Doesn't take much
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do

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Clyde - ya mule!

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #18 by 79granada » Thu Oct 25, 2012 8:56 pm

ok that sounds simple enough would it hurt anything to mount it as far away as the firewall?
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #19 by Asa » Thu Oct 25, 2012 9:04 pm

So long as you have good connections, you should be able to mount it in the cab if you want.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do



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Re: DS2 swap

Post #20 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Oct 25, 2012 10:44 pm

79granada wrote:ok that sounds simple enough would it hurt anything to mount it as far away as the firewall?


I mount mine in the cab just above the steering column, along with a spare so if I have to change it it is easy to unplug one and plug into the other. I used a computer finned heat sink for the main, and a hunk of aluminum plate for the spare.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

1986F150six
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #21 by 1986F150six » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:12 am

Greetings from first time poster!

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10474610- ... e+heatsink

If this link works, it shows the GM ignition module heatsink as sold on Amazon.com

It is very neat and works well.

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #22 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Oct 26, 2012 3:48 pm

1986F150six wrote:Greetings from first time poster!

http://www.amazon.com/ACDelco-10474610- ... e+heatsink

If this link works, it shows the GM ignition module heatsink as sold on Amazon.com

It is very neat and works well.


Nice, but there is no provision for mounting provided. Here is the one I am using. Note the notation for the color of wire at each terminal, the spare, and the black marker of the outline of the original DS II module that the HEI modules replaced.

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FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #23 by 79granada » Fri Oct 26, 2012 8:47 pm

thanks for all the help guys hopfully will have all the parts this week then i can bug you some more if i have any other issues.
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #24 by 79granada » Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:18 am

the parts store lists 2 distributors one is single vaccum and one dual vaccum whats the difference?
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #25 by CoupeBoy » Sat Oct 27, 2012 9:07 am

Get the single vacuum.

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #26 by woodbutcher » Sat Oct 27, 2012 4:20 pm

:D In reference to using a heat sink for the GM module.For locating a computer heat sink,just check at your local trash collection station.They might have a separate area for electronics disposal.You should be able to get a bunch of heat sinks from that source for nothing but a little labor.Or check with your local computer shop for dead mother boards,as they sometimes have a pretty good one on it.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
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79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #27 by 79granada » Sat Nov 03, 2012 9:12 pm

well i got started on the swap today srarted working in getting the 2100 mounted first i got the kick down linkage where it needs to be now i have to look into the throttle cable to get it right, then its on to the dizzy
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

clintonvillian
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #28 by clintonvillian » Sat Nov 03, 2012 10:15 pm

79,

Would you mind doing a pretty detailed thread of this conversion with pics as you go through it???

BTW what is the advantage of the GM???

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #29 by 79granada » Sun Nov 04, 2012 4:30 am

ill try to although ive had problems trying to post pics in the past but ill try (my 80 year old grandmother is better with computers than i am) the advantage to the gm module is i can use my stock coil an it is a few bucks cheaper than the ds2 box and ive had pretty bad luck with the ds2 box in the past so im willing to try something else it seems to be my experiance that if the ford module isnt from motorcraft you shoulnt leave home without a spare
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #30 by 79granada » Sun Nov 04, 2012 6:56 pm

well i got a little more done on it the carb is mounted up still trying to figure out the throttle cable and kickdown linkage i have two options i can mount the carb where the throtte faces the front of the engine and the cable will be easy to figure out or i can turn it the oppopsite where the kickdown works but i would have to have the throttle pull from the passenger side. any ideas would be appriciated
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

chico71
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #31 by chico71 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:48 pm

clintonvillian wrote:79,

Would you mind doing a pretty detailed thread of this conversion with pics as you go through it???

BTW what is the advantage of the GM???


some like it, others do not. the gm module allows you to keep the hotter TFI coil. however, it's a slightly more complicated hookup. some folks think the gm system is more reliable. others swear by the ford. i personally went with the ford module, and an oilfield ignition coil (very easy to come by in rural oklahoma). i like the fact that the ford module can be mounted where it is not exposed to the heat of the engine, and if the ford module ever does go bad, it is VERY easy to swap. virtual plug and play.

that said, there are some sharp cookies on this board who prefer the gm setup.
Last edited by chico71 on Thu Nov 08, 2012 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #32 by Asa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 8:55 pm

I've got the DS2 setup on my Mustang, just changed out the heatsink and coil
Did not realize that I mocked up the system with a bad GM control module, it took me 10 minutes to change it out, and that's pretty much from how securely I had it mounted.

Either one can be swapped out quite quickly, depends on how it's setup.
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Clyde - ya mule!

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #33 by clintonvillian » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:12 pm

Can the TFI coil be used with the duraspark II???

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #34 by Asa » Wed Nov 07, 2012 9:22 pm

Yes
Wire it up like a normal coil.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do



Susie - a work in progress

Clyde - ya mule!

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #35 by 79granada » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:33 am

well i went to the junkyard today and i explaiened my situation to the parts guy and he said that the best thing to do for a throttle cable would be to grab every cable and bracket i could carry and that should give me something to work with. i asked what that would cost me and he said ten bucks. so i have a whole pile of cables and brackets to work with. and he said hed give me a set of efi manifolds for 20 bucks
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #36 by Asa » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:37 am

You have a good junkyard, I've had yards that want me to pay $20/cable&bracket.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do



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Clyde - ya mule!

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #37 by 79granada » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:51 am

well they dont have a huge clientelle so the figure if they can get 10 bucks from a pile of stuff the aint gonna sell anyway ill come to them first when i do need something pricey and they have everything in the yard from a 58 edsel to a chevy volt so chances are they got it hes a good guy to deal with. i know im lucky
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #38 by CoupeBoy » Mon Nov 12, 2012 10:54 am

79granada wrote:they have everything in the yard from a 58 edsel to a chevy volt so chances are they got it hes a good guy to deal with. i know im lucky
Well now you are just bragging and you suck. Locally you either have to know the old boys that have this stuff hidden in their trees or there is one local wrecking yard that has a $25 'cover charge' just to walk through the 'old stuff'. *If* you buy something you can use the cover charge toward the purchase.

Luckily I know LOTS of old guys...
-ron

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #39 by 79granada » Mon Nov 12, 2012 11:13 am

yeah i know what you mean about the good ol boys i used to do farm work for this guy he had his own personal junkyard for ford and chevrolet trucks from the 70s up into the 90s unfortonatly hes no longer with us and his son thinks everything is worth its weight in gold i recently went down there looking for a door for my 86 he said 300 bucks and i told hom where he could stick it the 25 dollar cover charge is crazy we have a u pull around here that charges 2 bucks admission but they give you a free admission pass for every 20 bucks you spend
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #40 by 79granada » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:17 pm

well i got the throttle cable in the lenghth i need came off of a ford van now i need to find a peice of flat stock to bolt the bracket to and i should be good on the throttle. i fired it up with the throttle cable unhooked and ive got gas coming out of the accelerator pump on the outside of the carb any suggestions on that is it a pressure problem or a bad gasket i cant recall if the 2150 has a gasket or if the diaphragm is the gasket. im just using the stock pump.
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #41 by Fordman75 » Mon Nov 12, 2012 4:48 pm

79granada wrote:i fired it up with the throttle cable unhooked and ive got gas coming out of the accelerator pump on the outside of the carb any suggestions on that is it a pressure problem or a bad gasket i cant recall if the 2150 has a gasket or if the diaphragm is the gasket. im just using the stock pump.


Sounds like a ruptured accelerator pump diaphragm. The pump diaphragm is the gasket.

Even if you are running the stock fuel pump a fuel pressure regulator is a good idea. You want to keep the fuel pressure at the carb in the 3-7psi range.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #42 by 79granada » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:06 am

got the linkage squared away and took it for a ride today it felt a little better than the stock one barrel, and thats with the tfi still on it so i cant wait to see what it does with the ds2 on it plus i may be getting a set of efi manifolds.
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
'96 ranger 2.3 4cyl 5 speed
'96 chevy blazer 4x4 4.3 v6(wifes car, im trying to talk her into a ford)
'86 F-150 300 inline six automatic rust free 97000 miles

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #43 by clintonvillian » Wed Nov 14, 2012 2:18 pm

I thought the TFI required the computer to run?????????

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #44 by Asa » Wed Nov 14, 2012 3:48 pm

TFI requires power and a ground.

It is completely controlled by the ignition control module.
Right and Wrong are just words, what matters is what you do



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Re: DS2 swap

Post #45 by clintonvillian » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:57 pm

So the DS2 and DUI swaps are simply for better performance over the tfi?

79granada
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #46 by 79granada » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:19 pm

the tfi works with a self metering carburetor it has an o2 sensor and a computer that adjusts the fuel trim on the carb simmilar to an efi system. then the distributor adjusts the timing on the fly in acordance with this instead of using vaccum like the ds2 does. however whn any part of this system quits working the computer locks everything down to a defualt setting witch is where is was. no advance whatsoever so the ds2 will elemanate this and restore the stock preformance. and i have to get rid of the stock carb so i can adjust to make things right
'79 granada 250 inline six 80,000 miles (gone)
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80broncoman
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #47 by 80broncoman » Thu Nov 15, 2012 12:43 am

clintonvillian wrote:So the DS2 and DUI swaps are simply for better performance over the tfi?


THat is partly correct.
There is a computer with the TFI and the feedback Carb that goes with it. THey will work with a dead ECM However if something in the system dies The timing goes to fixed when this happens. As in same as idle and any RPM and load. MPG Will go to crap when this happens.

I like the DS1, DS2, TFI and GM HEI/TFI coil ignition systems all the same. THe best part is that all these parts are available and in stock at most
local auto parts stores. Just try that a MSD, or other aftermarket ignition systems.
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80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

clintonvillian
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #48 by clintonvillian » Thu Nov 15, 2012 8:04 am

What years had the feedback carb?

Is there an aftermarket feedback carb that will work with the tfi?

I hve been looking at th MSD atomic throttle body injection system......its just so damn expensive. I like it because its looks old school but has the reliability/easer tuneability of EFI.

1986F150six
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Re: DS2 swap

Post #49 by 1986F150six » Thu Nov 15, 2012 10:08 am

clintonvillian wrote:What years had the feedback carb?

Is there an aftermarket feedback carb that will work with the tfi?

I hve been looking at th MSD atomic throttle body injection system......its just so damn expensive. I like it because its looks old school but has the reliability/easer tuneability of EFI.


For 49 state models, 1984-1986. I believe California models may have been as early as 1982?

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Re: DS2 swap

Post #50 by woodbutcher » Thu Nov 15, 2012 3:58 pm

:shock: Hi CV.I don`t know if you will be able to stand the sticker shock of a replacement feedback carb.The last time that I checked on the price in this area they were going for appx$450.00.If you had a core.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
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