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300 wont turn enough rpms

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JustinPaul91
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300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #1 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:09 am

ive got a 300-6 that has some problems. the biggest one is the rpms. it wont turn enough. it wont go anymore than 3000rpms and i dont know what else to do.
heres what ive got:
1985 f150 300-6
top load overdrive 4 speed
9" with 3.50s at the moment but will be 4.11s by the end of the week
offenhouser dp intake with Carter AFB 500cfm carb with 1" spacer
comp cam mid range. i posted the url that has the specs
springs that go for the cam
and stock 1.6 rocker arms

i just bought the springs for it and it never helped it at all. i dont know what else to try. if someone could help me that would be greatly appreciated. ive got no other ideas.
Thanks, Justin

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam- ... d=782&sb=0

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #2 by StrangeRanger » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:17 am

When you say it won't pull more than 3000 RPMs is that in top gear or is that in all gears?
If you're using an aftermarket tach, are you certain that it is wired correctly for a six?
What tires are you running?
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #3 by rikard » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:03 pm

You didn't mention what your running for an exhaust. Many times an exhaust restriction will limit Rpms. A vacuum gauge will help diagnois that and other issues relating to ignition, carburation, and valve train issues.
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"If women don't find you handsome they should find you handy" Red Green
Now-95 Black F150 XLT SC 300 5 Speed " Nelly Belle"
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JustinPaul91
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #4 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:18 pm

Yes I'm running an aftermarket tac and I'm positive it's wired up right. I'm currently on 35-12.50-15.
The exhaust is just the headman header with a single chamber flowmaster. 1 inlet 2 outlet. I'm pretty sure it's 2.5" pipes. And never tried the vacuum method

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #5 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 12:19 pm

And it's in all gears

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #6 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Dec 23, 2012 1:56 pm

With your parts that thing should rev like its on steroids - easily into the 5000plus range.

I would check the cam timing and verify TDC and ignition timing. Somethings not right (he said, stating the obvious).
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

JustinPaul91
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #7 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:36 pm

When I put it together I made sure that the marks on the can gear and the crank gear lined up. But I guess I'll pull the cover off and make sure. I've been thinking if the push rods weren't long enough would that cause the problem. Or if the valves were not adjusted properly. I'm greatly appreciating all the help guys. Thanks a lot

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #8 by 80broncoman » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:44 pm

Does it have good power between 2000-2500 RPM ?
And then just like a switch shut down at 3000?
Or is it pretty much dead overall?


I am wodering about the cam timing.

Take a look at he exh manifold is it glowing Red?
I'd take a compression test. to see if the niumbers are abnormally low.
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80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #9 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 5:54 pm

As far as I know the header isn't red. And it's got great power from 2000-2500. You can feel it working. And it just won't pull past 3000. Like about 2700 it starting to vibrate like its out of balance and it just doesn't sound like it gonna go any farther than 29-3000.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #10 by MechRick » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:11 pm

I had almost exactly that same combination in my bronco, with the same cam and a bit less head (EFI). It would float the stock valve springs around 5400.

When you say it vibrates, is it missing? I remember the secondaries opened about 3000-3500 on my AFB. Maybe there is a problem there...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
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http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #11 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 6:51 pm

Well it's like it's out of balance. And I took all the emissions off of it. So idk if there's a vacuum problem causing that or not

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #12 by woodbutcher » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:39 pm

:oops: Had the same problem(more or less) with a car that I had many years ago.No power anywhere.So,started out with checking the plug wires and plugs.Finally got out the timing light.
The dizzy had slipped to 0* BTDC.Set timing to 10*.Like a whole different car.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #13 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:40 pm

JustinPaul91 wrote:When I put it together I made sure that the marks on the can gear and the crank gear lined up. But I guess I'll pull the cover off and make sure. I've been thinking if the push rods weren't long enough would that cause the problem. Or if the valves were not adjusted properly. I'm greatly appreciating all the help guys. Thanks a lot

You don't have to remove the timing cover. Use a degree wheel and a couplke of checking springs to check the cam eventd vs the card specs.
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #14 by Fordman75 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:51 pm

Are you still running the TFI distributor?
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #15 by Harte3 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 7:53 pm

What ignition system?
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #16 by MechRick » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:13 pm

Maybe it is just way out of balance...not sure if it would cause restricted RPM though.

To find out if it is a balance issue, blip the throttle. If it shakes on the way up and still shakes coasting back down to idle, it's a balance issue. If the engine is smooth on the coast down, it's a miss...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #17 by Fordman75 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:23 pm

Or maybe he's just not getting any timing advance. :hmmm:

Is the transmission stock? or did you swap it in? If you swapped it in and used a V8 flywheel that would also give you a nasty vibration.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #18 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:00 pm

I think my vibration is coming from the motor mounts. I looked at them and they are old. So I'll replace those and hopefully solve that problem. And I've never changed the system. It should all be stock electrical and trans.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #19 by Fordman75 » Sun Dec 23, 2012 11:51 pm

JustinPaul91 wrote:I think my vibration is coming from the motor mounts. I looked at them and they are old. So I'll replace those and hopefully solve that problem. And I've never changed the system. It should all be stock electrical and trans.



Does your distributor have a vacuum advance on it or a gray ignition module? If it has the ignition module mounted on the side of the distributor ( tfi distributor ) then that could be your problem. You might want to look into swapping to a Duraspark II distributor and ignition module. If you have a vacuum advance then you've probably already got a DSII set up. :thumbup:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #20 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:36 am

It's the tfi.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #21 by StrangeRanger » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:50 am

With a TFI ignition you have no advance other than what is controlled by the processor. Since you've ripped out the EFI system, that means that you have only your initial advance, no vaccuum or centrifugal to increase it.

I'm surprised it runs as well as it does
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #22 by Harte3 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:55 am

And that's why I asked about the ignition. The '85 would have ignition for the feed back system but no mention was made in the original post as to what ignition is being used.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #23 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:22 pm

I didn't know that my ignition was important. Thanks for the lesson. I wanna learn everything I can about it. So since its the distributor what do I need to fix it. Which distributor do I new to get to make it run better. My plan eventually is to get a David unified ignition distributor but I don't have enough money right now. So which to I need to get that will get me by and where do I find one. Which vehicles have what?

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #24 by Fordman75 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:49 pm

Do some searching on the DSII swap. You need the distributor, ignition module, coil and the engine wiring harness from a 77-82 Ford truck ( or 80-82 Fullsize Bronco ) that has a 300.

Or if you want to buy new parts you'll need the following parts ( but you'll still need the engine wiring harness ) .

Distributor
Distributor cap
Rotor
Distributor cap spacer
Coil
Ignition module ( with blue grommet or whatever you want to call it :lol: )
Spark plug wires.

And you might still have to do some tuning to the DSII distributor ( recurve aka adjusting the vacuum and mechanical advances ) because you have made a lot of changes from the stock engine.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #25 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:00 pm

So I could use the wiring harness off my 78 ford f150 ranger and the distributor. Cuz it's the vacuum advance distributor. I would assume the ds2. But I would want to rebuild it. It has everything there I'll just have to make the back half longer cuz the 78 is a short bed and my 85 is a long bed.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #26 by Fordman75 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:00 pm

JustinPaul91 wrote:So I could use the wiring harness off my 78 ford f150 ranger and the distributor. Cuz it's the vacuum advance distributor. I would assume the ds2. But I would want to rebuild it. It has everything there I'll just have to make the back half longer cuz the 78 is a short bed and my 85 is a long bed.


Yep the parts from your 78 will work if it has a 300 in it. Your used distributor may be fine. Once you pull it off the engine pop the cap and see if there is any side to side movement/free play in the center shaft. If there is, then it will need the bushings replaced. If there isn't you should be good to go with just a good clean up.

You don't need the whole vehicle wiring harness, just the engine harness. :thumbup:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #27 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:26 pm

It's got play in it. And all I'll need is the distributor and the little box that plugs into the distributor that bolts to the inner fender well. Is that it or do I need all the wiring for the front end?

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #28 by bubba22349 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:49 pm

:hmmm: There are a number of ways to do the DSII swap on a TFI truck, they do have some good parts that can be used from the system to build a hybrid depending on the control box that's used. It was covered fairly well in a recent post (below Link). There are other links in it that do a plug n play using the stock factory wire harness too so you do have a few choices on which way to do the swap. Good Luck :nod:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=69032
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #29 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:02 pm

Thanks everyone. I greatly appreciated everything. Hope everyone has a happy holiday and pleasant new year

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #30 by Fordman75 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:23 pm

JustinPaul91 wrote:It's got play in it. And all I'll need is the distributor and the little box that plugs into the distributor that bolts to the inner fender well. Is that it or do I need all the wiring for the front end?


Like I said in the post above

Distributor, Ignition module, coil, spark plug wires and the engine wiring harness. You don't need any of the body harness. Just the engine harness. It goes to the distributor, ignition module, coil, water temp sensor/sending unit and the oil pressure sensor/sending unit and then to connector/s at the firewall.

If you are buying new parts there is no need to replace the ignition module or coil unless they are bad. Just run the ones that are in your 78 now. :thumbup: The originals are probably higher quality parts then the new ones you could get at the parts place anyways.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #31 by JustinPaul91 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:38 pm

Ok. I'll have to get all that done so I can go fast now. And change some drivetrain parts.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #32 by 79granada » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:26 pm

i think i paid about 75 bucks for my distributor new at advance auto parts just about a month or so ago and it came with cap and rotor. i used the gm module on my swap and i like it all you have to do is run 4 wires its really simple. ive always had bad luck with the ford modules.
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #33 by Harte3 » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:36 pm

The GM module is a popular one. Read about it here: http://gofastforless.com/loser.htm
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #34 by 80broncoman » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:59 pm

on the DS distributors. With out the set of point pushing the top of the shaft sideways the bushings in these last for a Very,very long time. I'd bet its good. the best part about the no points and no timing chain is that once the ignition timing is set it will be set for life.
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80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #35 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:17 am

If I run the gm module all my friends that are Chevy fans will never let it go. They would always ride my ass about how a gm product saved that ford truck. Hahaha. But I'll look into it and try it. At this point if everyone told me to stand my truck up on the back bumper and hit the cross braces for the bed would solve my problem I'd do that. Haha. And recommendations on coils?

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #36 by Harte3 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:07 pm

Any stock type replacement coil will do the job.

http://www.breakerless.com/igntionfacts ... Just%20B.S.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #37 by Fordman75 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:16 pm

JustinPaul91 wrote:If I run the gm module all my friends that are Chevy fans will never let it go. They would always ride my ass about how a gm product saved that ford truck. Hahaha. But I'll look into it and try it. At this point if everyone told me to stand my truck up on the back bumper and hit the cross braces for the bed would solve my problem I'd do that. Haha. And recommendations on coils?




You've got the whole DSII set up in your 78 so why bother changing to different modules or coils? But if you do go with an aftermarket coil make sure you get one for the Ford horse shoe connector.

And happy holidays, since I can't say the other thing because it's against the forum rules. :? :roll:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #38 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 12:57 pm

I didn't know if a MSD coil would be better on it than Accel. Like the blaster series or something.
Happy holidays to everyone!

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #39 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:07 pm

Can this swap be done in a couple of hours or is it like an all day deal?

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #40 by CoupeBoy » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:09 pm

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #41 by StrangeRanger » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:12 pm

If you feel the need to use an aftermarket coil, look at the Crane PS-91. It Ford harness ready.
Or you can save $65 and use a Ford stock unit which is more than capable of handling a low-compression 6 at 5000 RPM
1996 F-150 (tow missile)
1993 Mustang 5.0 (hot rod and auto-x monster)
1982 Tiga Formula Ford (SCCA racecar)
2013 Hyundai Elantra Coupe (daily driver)

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #42 by JustinPaul91 » Tue Dec 25, 2012 2:17 pm

Ok. I'll look into everything

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #43 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 12:21 pm

ok ive got a little problem. im fixing to put all this in and im not sure where a few wires go. the two wires on the module red and white says it goes to the ignition switch what i need to know is what wires do i hook to for that. i noticed its a two prong conector on the module and i noticed a two prong connector under the hood thats coming from the fire wall. is that where i hook both together. and then the wire from the coil. i know one is the tac test and ive got that one figured out, its the oppisite wire. does it hook to just the battery or does it go elsewhere. thanks for the help guys.

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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #44 by 80broncoman » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:13 pm

Red or pink wire is voltage to run Key on (Less because it has a resister in the wire)
White goes to ignition switch for Cranking only (this is batt voltage No resister, helps for starting)

This is from a haynes manual.

I belive the stock ignition wire is resister wire. And if you got a used one you would need ALL of it.
If you run full batt voltage into the coil it and/or the module may not last long.
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Real men don't wear Bowties
When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

JustinPaul91
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Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #45 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 4:42 pm

http://webpages.charter.net/1bad6t/duraspark.html

i just dont know where to hook up the red wire. if its saying to hook the white wire up to the solenoid to retard the distributor then ill do that i just dont know where to hook the red wire. or if there is an actual conector that i can connect it to.

Baron Von Ottomatic
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #46 by Baron Von Ottomatic » Sun Jan 06, 2013 6:16 pm

It should be plug and play. There's a two wire connector (red/white) from the wiring harness that plugs into the two wire female connector on the DS module. Then a four wire connector on the module that goes to the distributor pigtail (plus a green wire back to the harness for the factory tach). Unless your harness wiring has been mangled that's all it takes.

If it's mangled, turn the key to run and use a volt meter to check the red and white wires from the harness - hot at run goes to the red wire on the DS module, hot at start (unplug the lead on the starter solenoid to keep it from cranking) goes to the white.

JustinPaul91
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:49 am
Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #47 by JustinPaul91 » Sun Jan 06, 2013 10:33 pm

Well I noticed today that there is a set of wires coming from the fire wall that is a 4 prong connector and a 2 prong connector. The two wire had 3 wires in and 2 wires out. Which I believe if I'm remembering correctly had a red and white wire in it. But I didn't want to hook up wires that I didn't know where they went or what they was for.

Sergeant82d
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #48 by Sergeant82d » Mon Jan 07, 2013 10:31 am

You are going to have to use a voltmeter and check the wires in the connector on the firewall, like was stated above. You need to look for battery voltage, and switched power.

JustinPaul91
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Joined: Sat Jan 07, 2012 10:49 am
Location: Fredericktown MO

Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #49 by JustinPaul91 » Wed Jan 09, 2013 8:51 pm

Well I got it together and running. And at an idle it won't pull past 2500. So is it something that I need to be drivin to get to rev higher or is there still something wrong? I do know my timing isn't correct so will that be something to do with it?

1967stroker
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Re: 300 wont turn enough rpms

Post #50 by 1967stroker » Wed Jan 09, 2013 11:18 pm

borrow a timing light and check you base timming. might need to set it at 12 to 14 on idle. then hold the timing light on the marks and rev them motor a little and see if it advances. also might need to get a vacum gauge and check some things out with it.

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