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3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

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BIG 6 farmer
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3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #1 by BIG 6 farmer » Wed Feb 20, 2013 12:21 am

Have to give credit to Lazy JW on this one, or the blame? (keeps me up @ night) Got a pile of Solex 34s, (1 barrels) off 1600 Beetles. Got a Factory stock Intake. The plan is to mount 3 Carbs. on intake, for an old Hot Rod look. Plan to cut/weld (alot), on Pass. side of Manifold. Not too crazy about the look of using 3 center sections welded together. Thinking keep the Manifold whole. Put center Carb. in stock location, add outer Carb. mounts over outer Cyl. pairs. Slightly out, not inline with center Carb. Will be more cutting/welding/smoothing, to get the look right. Not sure if i should use progressive linkage, or have them open all the same? Since the Carbs. are small, i think it should perform well? Will have a larger volume in Intake Manifold, after the Fab. is done. :thumbdown: :thumbup: :thumbdown: :thumbup:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #2 by Asa » Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:41 am

Have you seen FTF's 3x1bbl intake he fabbed up out of 3 stock center sections? Would probably require worlds less fabrication to do something like that.
I think I'd go with a progressive setup as it would act like a traditional secondary system opening up, and should be a little bit easier to tune. Either way it'll take a good amount of time to keep it idling correctly and such.
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BIG 6 farmer
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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #3 by BIG 6 farmer » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:02 am

Ya i have seen those.Maybe my plan, might take less time to Fab.? Tryin to go for a different look, so it doesent look like a welded up Intake. (bought from a Speed Shop 60 years ago look)Yes, thinking i have the center Carb. lead some. All the Sports Cars i used to work on, with a pair of side draft Carbs. You always set them up so one would tip in sooner. Would be some time getting them tuned in. The Solex carbs. will give an inexspensive, old school look. :D
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #4 by 1986F150six » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:30 am

If you thought two of the same carburetors might suffice, you would be able to get ready made linkage from a VW or Porsche set-up. Both would open simultaneously. Equip with original VW oil bath air cleaners and it would look old-school, plus you could use the warm air hoses to aid cold starts.

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #5 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:35 pm

Thought about using just 2 VW Carbs. & using the oil bath air cleaners too. They would look good with 2 carbs., 3 might be too much? Was thinking on the linkage, using a universal kit. That has a lot of parts to make something up. If your talking factory linkage for a type 3-4 VW,or Porshe stuff ? That would be hard to find around here. Unless ya got new after market parts? 2 Beetle Carbs. might not be enuff to feed a hot 300 six ? :hmmm:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #6 by Nashtooth » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:05 pm

Don't two carbs fit a straight six better than three when firing order is considered? I'm a numbskull but it looks like we have two three cylinder engines timing-wise, and even pulses to each carb when one feeds 3 cylinders. I recall something about Austin Healy 3000s not running better with 3 carbs. Did I mention numbskull? I'm running a Holley 390 on an offy c.

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #7 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:14 pm

YOU NO NUMBSKULL. 390 Holley on an Offy C, is a smart choice. 2 or 3 Carbs. on an inline six ? Depends on many things. Datsun 240/260 Z cars, 2 side draft carbs. Jaguar XKEs used 3 S.U. on their inline 3.8/4.2 six, from 61-69? Then went to 2 Stromberg Carbs. But used a different style Intake Manifold. (all for Emissions?) A lot of factors on using 2 or 3 Carbs. on a six. Carb. size, 1 Carb. per 2 or 3 cylinders. Or an open Plenum intake. Firing order? seems to work both ways. Im sure your right bout the Healey. Its the same on a Jag, @ least on a street car. The whole point of the 3 VW Carbs., is for the look. Your Carb./intake setup, would/should blow it away on a Dyno. :nod:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #8 by super4ord » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:05 am

1978 Zephyr Reverse Trike 170 Inline 6/C4...Slowly Progressing Project
1980 Mustang Coupe 200 Inline 6/SROD 4 speed manual...Driving Hotrod Project
2007 Chevrolet HHR Panel Wagon Ecotec 2.2L 4 cyl auto...Daily Driver
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT 3.6L Bent6...Wife's Daily Driver

BIG 6 farmer
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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #9 by BIG 6 farmer » Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:40 am

Thats the popular way of doing it, Gonna try a different look. Want to end up with an intake that looks like it was cast that way. Those are some nice pictures ya put up! To find that Side Draft Weber Intake, think ya gotta go to the land down under.
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #10 by super4ord » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:11 pm

Bought that from the FrenchTown Flyer. He does nice work.

I've been watching for one of the Cain intakes on Aussie Fleabay, but haven't found one that will ship to the US yet.

I really like your idea of the triple VW carbs. They are simple carbs, are readily available and parts availability is great also.
1978 Zephyr Reverse Trike 170 Inline 6/C4...Slowly Progressing Project
1980 Mustang Coupe 200 Inline 6/SROD 4 speed manual...Driving Hotrod Project
2007 Chevrolet HHR Panel Wagon Ecotec 2.2L 4 cyl auto...Daily Driver
2013 Dodge Grand Caravan SXT 3.6L Bent6...Wife's Daily Driver

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #11 by nightwatchman59 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:32 pm

A hundred years ago there was a guy street racing (and making money) in an early Falcon that had 6 1bbl. sidedrafts rubber hose clampped to a hacked stock intake... it had headers/ 4 spd. Everyone smiled when the hood was up...
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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #12 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Mar 02, 2013 8:25 pm

nightwatchman59 wrote:A hundred years ago there was a guy street racing (and making money) in an early Falcon that had 6 1bbl. sidedrafts rubber hose clampped to a hacked stock intake... it had headers/ 4 spd. Everyone smiled when the hood was up...
:
nono'Duh: RE'S A WILL THERE'S A WAY.....
super4ord wrote:Bought that from the FrenchTown Flyer. He does nice work.

I've been watching for one of the Cain intakes on Aussie Fleabay, but haven't found one that will ship to the US yet.

I really like your idea of the triple VW carbs. They are simple carbs, are readily available and parts availability is great also.
Read years ago, AK Miller did a build up on a then new Maverick. He welded stubbs on intake, hung 750 Honda? Carbs. on it. Lot of other up grades too, cool read. thinking im gonna start on Intake Manifold. At least get that going. Put some old Carbs. on it. Put some pictures up here to share. Plan on doing Cyl. pairs per Carb., with linkage pulling Carbs. @ same time. Have an adjustable balance/blockoff, between Cyl. pairs. So i could switch it to a progressive Carb. set-up, or use it as a tuning aid. to mix from Cyl. pairs being isolated to 1 Carb., to a full open Plenum. Hey, if it works out. i will share all the info., maybe build a few to sell? :hmmm:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #13 by J.R. » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:15 pm

Three Solex 34 carbs sounds like it would be OK, but too small to use progressive linkage actuation. How about three Weber or Holley/Weber 5200 progressive 2bbl carbs? Lots of factory applications in various sizes, as well as aftermarket support in jetting , rebuild kits, air cleaners, etc. available, and fuel distribution should be superior running on 3 small primaries, rather than just one Solex 34 in the center (starving the big 6's outer cylinders). Seems like fuel mileage during routine operation would benefit also, with little need to open up the secondaries (most of the time :twisted: ).

Just my 2 cents.

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #14 by Soldmy66 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:47 pm

And if you were to use 3 progressive 2 bbls, and also use a progressive carb linkage (ala the 200 in six), you might be able to adjust it such that the engine would run (1st) on 1 bbl (center carb), and then (2nd) 3 bbls (1 bbl center carb and 1 bbl each outer carb), and then (3rd) on 4 bbls (2bbls - center carb, and 1 bbl each outer carb) and finally (4th) on 6 bbls (2bbls center car and 2 bbl each outer carb).

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #15 by J.R. » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:22 pm

Soldmy66 wrote:And if you were to use 3 progressive 2 bbls, and also use a progressive carb linkage (ala the 200 in six), you might be able to adjust it such that the engine would run (1st) on 1 bbl (center carb), and then (2nd) 3 bbls (1 bbl center carb and 1 bbl each outer carb), and then (3rd) on 4 bbls (2bbls - center carb, and 1 bbl each outer carb) and finally (4th) on 6 bbls (2bbls center car and 2 bbl each outer carb).


Ummm, yeah! Sounds good... but only if you also have progressive cylinder deactivation. If all cylinders are always operating/supporting combustion, ideally, all needs to be equally balanced in their air/fuel supply. Otherwise certain cylinders will be 'dragging' other (less-efficient for the moment) cylinders; not the best for power, MPG, pollution, etc. That's a part of the reason port EFI usually beats TBI/"Central Fuel Injection".

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #16 by Soldmy66 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 6:30 pm

J.R. wrote:
Soldmy66 wrote:And if you were to use 3 progressive 2 bbls, and also use a progressive carb linkage (ala the 200 in six), you might be able to adjust it such that the engine would run (1st) on 1 bbl (center carb), and then (2nd) 3 bbls (1 bbl center carb and 1 bbl each outer carb), and then (3rd) on 4 bbls (2bbls - center carb, and 1 bbl each outer carb) and finally (4th) on 6 bbls (2bbls center car and 2 bbl each outer carb).


Ummm, yeah! Sounds good... but only if you also have progressive cylinder deactivation. If all cylinders are always operating/supporting combustion, ideally, all needs to be equally balanced in their air/fuel supply. Otherwise certain cylinders will be 'dragging' other (less-efficient for the moment) cylinders; not the best for power, MPG, pollution, etc. That's a part of the reason port EFI usually beats TBI/"Central Fuel Injection".

J.R.
SoCal


Agreed, this is the situation with the 200 in log head using the 3 X 1 with progressive. It is also the same with the stock 200 (or 300, for that matter).

BTW - I am a So-Cal guy as well.

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #17 by BIG 6 farmer » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:09 pm

J.R. wrote: Reply with quote Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 5:15 pm
Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake
Three Solex 34 carbs sounds like it would be OK, but too small to use progressive linkage actuation.
Yes i agree, 3 VW Carbs. would be too small for a progressive setup. My plan is to build the Intake Manifold, so it can be converted. And mount different & larger Carbs., if needed. There are many ways to go for Carbs. My main goal is to make it look old school speed, on the cheap. Spend some time on the look of the Intake, maybe Art Deco styling? Vintage Repop Carbs. are very expensive. The VW Solex 34s would give the old look on the cheap. At a glance, most wouldnt think they are Bug Carbs. I want to get a start on the Intake, but need to finish this Truck for a Guy.
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #18 by duner63 » Wed Mar 06, 2013 2:37 pm

Reading all this about multiple carbs just made me wade in to put in another view. A few years ago I was in Calgary Alberta at an all Ford week end--show shine/drags/slalom. Parked two cars down from us was a Falcon 64-65 vintage with six (6) motorcycle carbs. He said the beauty of the set-up was that the carbs are vacumn diaphragm style so seting the idle was a snap. The carb senses the vacumn on the intake and lifts the slide accordingly. That was the easy part. Still had to figure out what pilot jet to use for the idle/low speed then drive it and do the same with the main jet(mid to full throttle). I have worked on m/c carbs over the years and they are fairly simple in their operation. It would be the manifold that would be the challenge --six individual units. Now if you could find the carbs from a 3 cyl m/c (as in Yamaha 750-needing two sets) they are mounted on a common plate with throttle linkage attached and cable activated. Also the manifolds on the motor are short stubby things with a short rubber boot on each carb. If the spacing was not too far off it could be made to work. Ok I have thrown out the idea,now is anyone brave enough to act on it? It sure doesn't take much to muddy the waters does it?

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #19 by BIG 6 farmer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:20 pm

I do work on Motor Cycles also. The C/V Carbs. they use would be fun on an inline six. Have a 78 Honda GL 1000 Parts Bike. Thought about mounting the 4 Keihin Carbs. on the Factory Intake (open plenum), bet it would work good. :hmmm:
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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #20 by country fried 6 » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:53 pm

BIG 6 farmer wrote:I do work on Motor Cycles also. The C/V Carbs. they use would be fun on an inline six. Have a 78 Honda GL 1000 Parts Bike. Thought about mounting the 4 Keihin Carbs. on the Factory Intake (open plenum), bet it would work good. :hmmm:


i'm thinking EFI intake with the plenum removed, then modified to accept six CV carbs, each feeding an individual long runner.

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #21 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:14 pm

That is an interesting idea! So, your going to use the lower intake bolted to the upper? With the Plenum sawed off the upper, mount the carbs. there ? That would look wild. Not sure how the long intake runners would work with the CV Carbs.? (might not matter?) Im thinking a small balance tube hooked to all 6 Carbs., would be a good idea.
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: 3 VW Carbs on a modified stock intake

Post #22 by country fried 6 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:35 pm

you got the idea. it was just an idea i was throwing out there. it would seem simpler than building a plenum to take 4 carbs. i'm not sure if a balance would help or not, none of the 4stroke bikes use balance pipes with multi carb setups that i know of, i even heard it said that it would counter productive on a bike. they have almost no runner though, maybe thats the difference?

it would look mean in little coupe with no hood.

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