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Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

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BIG 6 farmer
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Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #1 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Feb 26, 2013 11:29 am

Something thats been knawin at me lately. Since we all have these Old School 6 Bangers, & we are not going to give them up. (sounds like the gun thing?). I worry on what to use for Engine Oils ? Talking bout the lack of the Zinc/phos. additives to protect the Camshaft Lobes & Lifter faces. I know there are choices to be had, but Engine oil is pricey enuff with out stepping up to Racing oil. Thinking about a pour in additive, not sure about that? Open to thoughts on what would be a good, low cost option. to use for the plain ol Flat Tappet Engines. (non-Race) :hmmm:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #2 by Luckyman » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:09 pm

Some of the oils spec'ed for diesels still have somewhat adequate amounts of zinc in them ie. Shell Rotella and Chevron Delo. If the engine/cam are already broken in, synthetic oils are probably fine for engines that get frequent use. But the synthetics can run off of the internal surfaces more completely than the dino oils in engines that sit for long periods of time between uses, resulting in drier than desired starts.

You could also do some research at: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/
1 "76" F150 RC, LB, 2WD, 300, NP435, 9" open 3.00, special order 2-76/Delivered 4-76. Still "new".

1 "73-79" F150 RC/SS/SB/4WD, "84"-300, T18, NP205, 9" open 3.50, Dana 44 3.50 open, Offy DP, Holley 470, EFI + single 2.5" exhaust. Gathered from 15+ donor/parts trucks. "Fubar". Runs good, safe, still needs details/project continues.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #3 by First Fox » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:22 pm

Diesel oils commonly have higher levels of zinc. I have been running Shell Rotella in my flat tappet engines since I first found out that the zinc was removed many moons ago. It still has has Zinc and phosphorous levels and is very attractively priced. It is in my opinion probably the best bang for the buck for guys like us.

The problem with pour in additives is that they can throw off the balance of detergent additives already in place in the oil and can cause compatibility problems. They may work great in one brand of oil with a certain detergent package, but in another oil with a different formula, may break it down, or foam the oil up, or convert the oil into mozzarella cheese etc. All kinds of horror stories and all kinds of positive experiences with it. I personally use oil that engineers who are much smarter than I have formulated and do not add anything to it. If i find I need a different oil, I buy a different oil.

I know this is like discussing politics with certain people though so i will avoid it any further. :beer:
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1962 Falcon. 170/Auto.
1965 Fairlane. Twin turbocharged 289/4 speed.
1965 Thunderbird. 390/Auto.
1980 Fairmont. Turbocharged 200, 260 Comp cam/T5 and '93 Mustang steering/suspension.
1981 F-100. 300/4 speed OD. I use this primarily to haul my cars home after I modify them and they break.
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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #4 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:40 pm

Thank you for the link ! :D According to my Engine Machinist, the Diesel oil no longer has enuff (or any ) of the additive. I agree on your thoughts about the Synthetics, & been using syn. blend oils for years. Just dont wanna flatten a cam on my old Junkers, a lota Grey area info. on this. Maybe i get on some Diesel oil seller web sites? Get a solid answer? :(( I will use any Brand of Oil that i have comfort in, dont get hung up on Brand loyalty anymore.)
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #5 by Nashtooth » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:59 pm

I tried Rotella for one oil change and noted increased valve train noise. Now I'm back on Delo 400 and things have quieted down. BITOG is interesting stuff.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #6 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Feb 26, 2013 3:54 pm

My collection of six powered cars currently has three roller cammed and three flat tappet hydraulic cammed engines with two more hydraulic cammed engines soon on the way.

I've been using straight Valvoline 10W-40 in all my cars for years and don't intend to do differently.

Friends in the industry say the hype about the catastrophic effects of the reduction of ZDDP is way overblown. I have never scrubbed a lobe from these engines. If I ever do then maybe I'll rethink things. Until then - 10W40.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #7 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:06 pm

Thats a positive ! :nod: Read , a big part in the mix. Was some years back a shortage of good, USA made lifters. A lot of cheap , sub par lifters made over seas. Was & still are coming into the States. :thumbdown:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #8 by Harte3 » Tue Feb 26, 2013 7:11 pm

"...the hype about the catastrophic effects of the reduction of ZDDP is way overblown." Yup. What was removed was probably replaced by other additives. The same 'catastrophic effects' were predicted with the removal of lead from gas...same with the removal/reduction of sulfur in diesel fuel.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #9 by 80broncoman » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:04 am

I was told years ago that there were more than a few causes of wiping off a lobe. break-in was quite important, however What I was told was the #1 casue is the lifter bore not exactly 90' to the axis of the cam and they said the biggest offender was the BBC. And it showed in our warrenty claims.
When I got there (1990)of course the SBC was by far the cast cams that sold the most volume. Followed buy 260-302 cast cams and then the BBC cast cams.
BBC cams were the ones with the highest number of warrentys. IIRC they were still the highest number of warrented cams even though whn I was leaving in 94 the260-302 cams sold the most. THe people that were telling me this were for the most part bowtie fans.
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80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #10 by 78merKri6 » Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:54 am

I distinctly remember from 1970s, when taking an IHC engine down that some lifters would have a straight-across wear/witness. As if the lifter wasn't spinning. Made me think about GM having cam failures at about that time.I think, though GM failures were because of several things.

Oils were changin (haven't stopped)---multi-weights,additives,etc. People wern't into making choices or studying about oil.,,,,,,,, One thing they did though, was idle their engine too much!!!

Chevy bigblocks had differencs/characteristics that public wasnt' accustomed to. One was was

valve train weight & spring pressures.


In my mind, everything is relative and changes make waste.
sVehicles: 93 F150 4x4 300BB,stock w/dual outlet Clifords ; 78 Mercury Bobcat w/250SB andC4 auto 2800 stall,milled head, Holman- Moody cam,Offy,3 singles (Holley), port divider, homemade headers; 65 Mustang coupe 200 6 w/C4,stocker--driven&shown.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #11 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Mar 02, 2013 10:29 pm

In my mind, a BBC is a Turd. Only Engine i ever saw snap a Crankshaft, my Moms 454 Truck. They like oil too,( 500-900 miles per qt.) A lot of Guys have swapped out a dead 454, for a Big Caddy or Olds. Had a better running Truck, sometimes better Gas mileage too. (sorry for the rant). My Gals Dad told stories of new BB Corvettes he had in the mid 60s. Had a 396 that wiped the Camshaft out under warranty. The Dealer took care of it. He paid an extra $ 300? to up grade to a 427, talked them into letting him take the sick 396 home. Which he re-did & sold. He said he had one of the first 427 Chevys in Omaha.
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #12 by 78merKri6 » Sun Mar 03, 2013 10:57 pm

Farmer,

Not meaning to sidetrack this thread, but yes, BBC had many problems. I decided I couldn't ever trust one. Though they would run hard, they would self destruct.

However, Ford FE engines broke cranks in big trucks. Many moons have past, though, and if you've noticed; racing builds, parts, aftermarket have all improved dependibility for all makes of performance apps.

I speak only from observance on BBC and not so much experience there.

I once replaced a failed FE reman (one of those green ones from Ford authorized center) that had been operating for 6 months with a missing upperhalf on no.4 main brg. I dare someone to top that.

I think most of us are on right track with oil. Just break it in right as best we can, add anti-scuff, don't idle unnesissarily, hope for the best.

Gary
sVehicles: 93 F150 4x4 300BB,stock w/dual outlet Clifords ; 78 Mercury Bobcat w/250SB andC4 auto 2800 stall,milled head, Holman- Moody cam,Offy,3 singles (Holley), port divider, homemade headers; 65 Mustang coupe 200 6 w/C4,stocker--driven&shown.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #13 by BIG 6 farmer » Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:32 pm

Yes i agree,. The Ford FE was a mixed bag. Back in the day, we had a lot of Ford P.U. Trucks, Most with 360s. Got to the point you couldnt find a good used 360/390. But now im doin Body work on a 74, 250 4x4 for a Guy. Has the sweetest 390 in it. Engine has fresh over haul, by one of the best shops in area. Moral to the story ,is use the best parts you can get. Dont skimp on good Machine work. Most Factory Engines from that time, can use improvements on both. And yes, Racing builds/parts have improved all the makes. Sorry, didnt mean to sound like a Knuckle Draggin Brand Hater. :D
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #14 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Mar 04, 2013 11:04 am

78merKri6 wrote:.

I once replaced a failed FE reman (one of those green ones from Ford authorized center) that had been operating for 6 months with a missing upperhalf on no.4 main brg. I dare someone to top that.



I once pulled the pan off a 300 race motor (not one I built, but one I had in a race car) to check the bearings. When I loosened #3 main cap and #4 main cap they fell apart in two pieces, meaning a 18 inch section of the crankshaft had been running unsuported. I breathed a sigh of relief at that sight.
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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #15 by 78merKri6 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 4:09 pm

Touche' .
sVehicles: 93 F150 4x4 300BB,stock w/dual outlet Clifords ; 78 Mercury Bobcat w/250SB andC4 auto 2800 stall,milled head, Holman- Moody cam,Offy,3 singles (Holley), port divider, homemade headers; 65 Mustang coupe 200 6 w/C4,stocker--driven&shown.

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #16 by BIG 6 farmer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 10:41 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
78merKri6 wrote:.

I once replaced a failed FE reman (one of those green ones from Ford authorized center) that had been operating for 6 months with a missing upperhalf on no.4 main brg. I dare someone to top that.



I once pulled the pan off a 300 race motor (not one I built, but one I had in a race car) to check the bearings. When I loosened #3 main cap and #4 main cap they fell apart in two pieces, meaning a 18 inch section of the crankshaft had been running unsupported. I breathed a sigh of relief at that sight.
Yes, both of those hard to top. Hope i never do. Have had my own sad stories with crate Re-man Engines. My pace is slower now, little wiser? If time allows, Always try to support my local Machine/Engine Shops. Less problems, & if there was. The drive much shorter. :nod:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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Re: Safe oils to use in non- Roller Cammed Engines

Post #17 by 80broncoman » Thu Mar 07, 2013 7:58 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
I once pulled the pan off a 300 race motor (not one I built, but one I had in a race car) to check the bearings. When I loosened #3 main cap and #4 main cap they fell apart in two pieces, meaning a 18 inch section of the crankshaft had been running unsuported. I breathed a sigh of relief at that sight.


Along the same line here, I bought a 90 parts jeep cheerokee a few years back with a 4.0 inline six.I was told it had a bad habit of blown head gaskets. Drove it in the back years and started pulling it apart. 2 main caps fell apart just like your described 300. It wasn't a race motor though.
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When it come to engines If its .001 loose nobody knows, But if its .001 too tight EVERYBODY KNOWS!!
80 bronco FUV (farm utility vehicle)300 T-18 3.50s EFI head, offy C dual plenum, 500 edel carb, 1.7 roller rockers, Crane 260 cam EFI Exh

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