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300 roller rockers

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duner63
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300 roller rockers

Post #1 by duner63 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:57 pm

Hi,I am building a 300 and have noticed quite a few of you guys are running roller rockers in 1.6 and 1.7. What are they from? I have queried Comp cams and the guy there was trying to lean towards a Chevy V6 rocker but he was non committal. Also does anyone know what pistons would interchange. I am trying to get away with not shaving the head or zeroing the block to get some compression.Thanks .
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #2 by CoupeBoy » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:02 pm

Big Block Chebby.. after upgrading to screw in rocker studs.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #3 by 80broncoman » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:11 pm

duner63 wrote:Hi,I am building a 300 and have noticed quite a few of you guys are running roller rockers in 1.6 and 1.7. What are they from? I have queried Comp cams and the guy there was trying to lean towards a Chevy V6 rocker but he was non committal. Also does anyone know what pistons would interchange. I am trying to get away with not shaving the head or zeroing the block to get some compression.Thanks .
Duner 59


1.6 is the stock ratio
1.7 will of course give you more lift and slighltly faster rates of moment of the valves.

To give some back ground, the chev V6 are all WRONG for a 300.

It is the chev 230-250-292 inline sixes that have the higher ratio (1.75 ratio) AND the required valve to fulcrum size that is almost a exact fit for the 300.
The BBC uses the exact same fulcrum to valve size as the chev inline sixes.
THere are roller rockers made specifly for the 300s, Harland Sharp, and Crane are the ones I remember. comp might makes them as well.?? They are usually a little more money for the small quanity production runs.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #4 by duner63 » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:20 pm

Thanks,I am assuming the Big Block Chevy rockers just bolt on once the screw in studs are installed. Would guide plates be beneficial and what pushrods should I go with,5/16 or 3/8. This sure is fun learning about my 300. This forum is a is full of "neat stuff". Love reading all the comments.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #5 by 80broncoman » Mon Mar 04, 2013 6:29 pm

duner63 wrote:Thanks,I am assuming the Big Block Chevy rockers just bolt on once the screw in studs are installed. Would guide plates be beneficial and what pushrods should I go with,5/16 or 3/8. This sure is fun learning about my 300. This forum is a is full of "neat stuff". Love reading all the comments.


What do you have now as in year and what type of factory rockers? it can get quite complicated on the later models
about 83? 84? and newer that have the bolt down rockers.

some its just new studs, others are a studs, guideplates, AND hardened pushrods.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #6 by duner63 » Tue Mar 05, 2013 2:06 pm

Well I have two 300's ,one early carbed unit(maybe 78/79) and a fuelie unit(might be a 86/87). I want to use the fuelie motor (low mileage and ran great) but with the early head. I have a 4 barrel manifold and twin cast exhaust manifolds. The early head has steel rockers so I hope that screw in studs are all I require. If I need guide plates can I order for the 300 specifically or again does something else work? Also getting back to the pistons,I heard that someone in California sold 9:1 pistons for the 300. Any idea who that might be? Thanks again. Half the fun is in tracking down all the goodies.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #7 by 80broncoman » Tue Mar 05, 2013 6:53 pm

duner63 wrote:Well I have two 300's ,one early carbed unit(maybe 78/79) and a fuelie unit(might be a 86/87). I want to use the fuelie motor (low mileage and ran great) but with the early head. I have a 4 barrel manifold and twin cast exhaust manifolds. The early head has steel rockers so I hope that screw in studs are all I require. If I need guide plates can I order for the 300 specifically or again does something else work? Also getting back to the pistons,I heard that someone in California sold 9:1 pistons for the 300. Any idea who that might be? Thanks again. Half the fun is in tracking down all the goodies.


For a "screw in stud only" conversion you MUST have a head with machined slots guiding the pushrods. If you head has a round hole Your in more work time and money. I don't think there are any plates made specifly for a 300.
I'm not aware of claifornia vehicle pistons being different from the others.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #8 by crash-harris » Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:16 pm

Bruiser - 1990 Ford F150...barely...EFI 300 Big Six, 500K+!, converted to 4x4. 4.10 gears and Sterling FF rear w/ Trac-Lok, 37" meats. Undergoing 1 Ton leaf spring SAS. 6BT in the plans.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #9 by BIG 6 farmer » Sat Mar 09, 2013 6:35 pm

80broncoman wrote:
duner63 wrote:Well I have two 300's ,one early carbed unit(maybe 78/79) and a fuelie unit(might be a 86/87). I want to use the fuelie motor (low mileage and ran great) but with the early head. I have a 4 barrel manifold and twin cast exhaust manifolds. The early head has steel rockers so I hope that screw in studs are all I require. If I need guide plates can I order for the 300 specifically or again does something else work? Also getting back to the pistons,I heard that someone in California sold 9:1 pistons for the 300. Any idea who that might be? Thanks again. Half the fun is in tracking down all the goodies.


For a "screw in stud only" conversion you MUST have a head with machined slots guiding the pushrods. If you head has a round hole Your in more work time and money. I don't think there are any plates made specifly for a 300.
I'm not aware of claifornia vehicle pistons being different from the others.
Yes, im sure you would have to use Guide Plates off something else, split & weld them back together. The conversion for Rocker studs on a Fuel Inj. Head, prob. not worth the effort (and money). Better off starting with a 240 or 300 Carb. Head, that came with studs & the cast in slots for the Push rods. Roller Rockers for a 429-460 Ford can work, but the ones for a BBC will be easier to find (sometimes cheaper). No matter what you use, have them set up properly.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #10 by clintonvillian » Sat Mar 09, 2013 9:22 pm

On the old 240 head with press in studs and slotted 5/16 guides.....

Is milling of the bosses required or can you use studs like the ebay ones listed above without a hex on them and just tap the head and skip milling?

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #11 by 80broncoman » Sat Mar 09, 2013 11:49 pm

clintonvillian wrote:On the old 240 head with press in studs and slotted 5/16 guides.....

Is milling of the bosses required or can you use studs like the ebay ones listed above without a hex on them and just tap the head and skip milling?


I think you will have to mill the stud bosses to give room for the hex on the studs.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #12 by clintonvillian » Sun Mar 10, 2013 2:25 pm


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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #13 by 80broncoman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 3:37 pm

clintonvillian wrote:Even for this type WITHOUT the hex head....
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/mrg-1076/media/images
Maybe maybe not on those studs. As long as the rocker body doens't contact anything other than the pushrod, stud and valve you should be fine. Do keep in mind if you find BBC rockers use a 7/16th stud.

clintonvillian wrote:http://www.ebay.com/itm/390544588665?ss ... 1436.l2649
That stud with a slightly different guide system is what I used on my 300. It also is better in one way. heat treated pushrods are not required. although it uses a 3/8 pushrods.


For a 300 and 3/8th rocker and 5/16th pushrod this kit would be all you need. It uses the pushrod guide conversion that I have on my 300. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crane-Rocker-Ar ... ea&vxp=mtr


Here are some standard guidplates (Adjustable spacing) you could Bolt on a 240-300 hardened or heat treated pushrods ARE required.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-262-4 ... e1&vxp=mtr .
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #14 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Mar 10, 2013 10:30 pm

The stud boss holes are already 3/8 on a head w/ pressed in studs. A 460 stud w/ a 5/16 thread size will not work - the hole in the boss will be too big. You will have to tap the bosses to 7/16 - NC (after milling to the proper height) and use either the 3/8 or the 7/16 stud size w/ the appropriate rocker arms. Don't forget sealer on the studs.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #15 by 80broncoman » Sun Mar 10, 2013 11:09 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:The stud boss holes are already 3/8 on a head w/ pressed in studs. A 460 stud w/ a 5/16 thread size will not work - the hole in the boss will be too big. You will have to tap the bosses to 7/16 - NC (after milling to the proper height) and use either the 3/8 or the 7/16 stud size w/ the appropriate rocker arms. Don't forget sealer on the studs.



I should have stated that the later model bolt down rocker head has the 5/16 NC threaded bosses.
That is the head that is on my 80.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #16 by Crash5291 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 12:44 pm

Hey Fellas
I have a question that pertains to this topic, the engine i have was factory in an 85' it came smog exempt as per the decals and dealer. Is they a way to tell what i will have without pulling the cover? maybe casting numbers or certain milling marks?

I only have one picture with the VC off and its not the best maybe someone can identify from it
Image

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #17 by country fried 6 » Mon Mar 11, 2013 1:27 pm

those rockers look like the bolt on style to me.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #18 by Baron Von Ottomatic » Mon Mar 11, 2013 6:53 pm

Affirmative, the rockers in that pic are the bolt-down style.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #19 by Baron Von Ottomatic » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:05 pm

As far as milling stud bosses, there are different length studs available the popular sizes. No need to pay to have the bosses milled if you aren't using guide plates. Just measure how much the stock pressed-in studs protrude and order screw-ins with more or less the same effective length.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #20 by StrangeRanger » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:38 pm

...but with the bolt down rockers he has round pushrod holes rather than slots so he's going to need guide plates
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #21 by Crash5291 » Wed Mar 13, 2013 12:17 am

So i i follow this right with my bolt down rockers, i would need the following parts to convert:

Crane stud kit 36656-2 (6 sets) deciphered from this page http://www.cranecams.com/311-325.pdf

Crane rockers 13744

with my stock pushrods?

Sorry if I'm way out in left field on this


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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #22 by 80broncoman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:36 pm

Crash5291 wrote:So i i follow this right with my bolt down rockers, i would need the following parts to convert:

Crane stud kit 36656-2 (6 sets) deciphered from this page http://www.cranecams.com/311-325.pdf
Crane rockers 13744
with my stock pushrods?
Sorry if I'm way out in left field on this
Joe


Yes the 36656-2 part number will do it for you . (It didn't exsist when I built mine.)

Pushrods are gonna be a try stock ones and see where you are. My engine could use a slightly longer pushrods ( like +.060 longer.) And my head was milled .040 soo +.100 might be better.
There really are not all that many 300s runnning around with BBC rockers on them.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #23 by 80broncoman » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:38 pm

80broncoman wrote:
Crash5291 wrote:So i i follow this right with my bolt down rockers, i would need the following parts to convert:

Crane stud kit 36656-2 (6 sets) deciphered from this page http://www.cranecams.com/311-325.pdf
Crane rockers 13744
with my stock pushrods?
Sorry if I'm way out in left field on this
Joe


Yes the 36656-2 part number will do it for you . (It didn't exsist when I built mine.)

Pushrods are gonna be a try stock ones and see where you are. My engine could use a slightly longer pushrods ( like +.060 longer.) And my head was milled .040 soo +.100 might be better.
There really are not all that many 300s runnning around with BBC rockers on them.


one piece of advice on the nylon insert guide plates. Polish the pushrods and the nylon inserts will last much longer.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #24 by Crash5291 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:38 am

Good note on the polishing makes complete sense to me too. Less friction is a good thing.

What kind of power increase would you expect to see from this swap on a stock engine (less variables) 5hp? or more


Now swapping to roller on the top. can you run a roller lifter on a non roller cam? do any drop in and work?

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #25 by StrangeRanger » Fri Mar 15, 2013 10:39 am

Crash5291 wrote:Good note on the polishing makes complete sense to me too. Less friction is a good thing.

What kind of power increase would you expect to see from this swap on a stock engine (less variables) 5hp? or more
The reduced friction of the rollers won't give you a noticeable HP gain, your 5HP is probably close. The .022" higher valve lift of the 1.7 BBC rockers will give you a measurable gain in torque throughout the entire RPM range of the engine, and that's what you're looking for. 5 ft-lbs across the board is way more important that a 5 HP gain at peak.

Do not forget to swap to an all-metal timing gear set. The phenolics will not live a long and happy life with the loads imposed by the increased lift

Now swapping to roller on the top. can you run a roller lifter on a non roller cam? do any drop in and work?

Absolutely NOT. Roller rockers are completely incompatible with a flat tappet cam. You will destroy things in short order if you try.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #26 by Crash5291 » Fri Mar 15, 2013 1:53 pm

StrangeRanger wrote: The reduced friction of the rollers won't give you a noticeable HP gain, your 5HP is probably close. The .022" higher valve lift of the 1.7 BBC rockers will give you a measurable gain in torque throughout the entire RPM range of the engine, and that's what you're looking for. 5 ft-lbs across the board is way more important that a 5 HP gain at peak.

YA the 5hp was a guess.
Do not forget to swap to an all-metal timing gear set. The phenolics will not live a long and happy life with the loads imposed by the increased lift
Noted

Now swapping to roller on the top. can you run a roller lifter on a non roller cam? do any drop in and work?

Absolutely NOT. Roller rockers are completely incompatible with a flat tappet cam. You will destroy things in short order if you try.[/quote]

NOTED.

Thanks StrangeRanger

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #27 by 80broncoman » Fri Mar 15, 2013 2:19 pm

Crash5291 wrote:
StrangeRanger wrote: The reduced friction of the rollers won't give you a noticeable HP gain, your 5HP is probably close. The .022" higher valve lift of the 1.7 BBC rockers will give you a measurable gain in torque throughout the entire RPM range of the engine, and that's what you're looking for. 5 ft-lbs across the board is way more important that a 5 HP gain at peak.

YA the 5hp was a guess.
Do not forget to swap to an all-metal timing gear set. The phenolics will not live a long and happy life with the loads imposed by the increased lift
Noted

Now swapping to roller on the top. can you run a roller lifter on a non roller cam? do any drop in and work?

Absolutely NOT. Roller rockers are completely incompatible with a flat tappet cam. You will destroy things in short order if you try.

NOTED.
Thanks StrangeRanger[/quote]
I think you missed the meaning of what strangranger said.

Roller rokers are fine with any cam, .....Roller LIFTERS are ONLY for Roller Cams.

Years Ago I used to see about 1 inch increase rise in idle vacume with a roller rocker swap.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #28 by crash-harris » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:59 pm

So then can you use this guideplate kit to run 1.75 cheb rockers on the EFI head without milling the rocker bosses down?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crane-Rocker-Ar ... ea&vxp=mtr

But you only have to drill out the stud holes and tap them appropriately?

Johnson sold his 240 head and a lot of other parts for his '66 F100 that I posted about awhile ago, but he said he'd have the cheb rockers for me when I need them :beer: He was looking at either getting a Lincoln with a 4.6L and dropping the '66 body on it, or since he wants to still have a 4x4 around, converting it to do so and building one of my 300 blocks for it.
Bruiser - 1990 Ford F150...barely...EFI 300 Big Six, 500K+!, converted to 4x4. 4.10 gears and Sterling FF rear w/ Trac-Lok, 37" meats. Undergoing 1 Ton leaf spring SAS. 6BT in the plans.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #29 by 80broncoman » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:42 pm

crash-harris wrote:So then can you use this guideplate kit to run 1.75 cheb rockers on the EFI head without milling the rocker bosses down?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crane-Rocker-Ar ... ea&vxp=mtr

But you only have to drill out the stud holes and tap them appropriately?
.......


Yes on the higher ratio rockers, and No . No machining is required on a bolt down rocker head with that crane kit you linked above.

Also you may not be able to install the stock EFI valve cover with the poly locks in place. You might try 2 gaskets stacked together or a older valve cover from the carb days. I have no idea if that will clear the upper EFI manifold.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #30 by crash-harris » Sat Mar 16, 2013 10:35 am

From what information I've gathered before hand, it would be best to double nut them versus using the poly locks. Should clear that way?
Bruiser - 1990 Ford F150...barely...EFI 300 Big Six, 500K+!, converted to 4x4. 4.10 gears and Sterling FF rear w/ Trac-Lok, 37" meats. Undergoing 1 Ton leaf spring SAS. 6BT in the plans.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #31 by 80broncoman » Sat Mar 16, 2013 11:32 pm

crash-harris wrote:From what information I've gathered before hand, it would be best to double nut them versus using the poly locks. Should clear that way?


It would denfintly be a shorter height for sure.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #32 by crash-harris » Sun Mar 17, 2013 12:16 pm

I was talking with a buddy yesterday and the thought crossed my mind about using two grade 8 nuts on every stud with the top one having a crown nut to help insure against them ever backing off by themselves.
Bruiser - 1990 Ford F150...barely...EFI 300 Big Six, 500K+!, converted to 4x4. 4.10 gears and Sterling FF rear w/ Trac-Lok, 37" meats. Undergoing 1 Ton leaf spring SAS. 6BT in the plans.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #33 by StrangeRanger » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:01 pm

No. The crown limits how far you can screw the nuts down on the stud. Use a pair of jam nuts; that's what they're designed for.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #34 by crash-harris » Sun Mar 17, 2013 5:28 pm

The ones with the plastic o-ring in the tops of them? Always thought they were meant to hold the nut wherever it was tightened to on the threads?
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #35 by StrangeRanger » Sun Mar 17, 2013 6:59 pm

No. Those are Ny-Lock lock nuts.
Jam nuts are exactly like standard hex nuts except they are about 2/3 the height. They are designed to be used in pairs and locked against one another.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #36 by apg camo » Tue Mar 26, 2013 5:53 pm

80broncoman wrote:
crash-harris wrote:So then can you use this guideplate kit to run 1.75 cheb rockers on the EFI head without milling the rocker bosses down?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crane-Rocker-Ar ... ea&vxp=mtr

But you only have to drill out the stud holes and tap them appropriately?
.......


Yes on the higher ratio rockers, and No . No machining is required on a bolt down rocker head with that crane kit you linked above.

Also you may not be able to install the stock EFI valve cover with the poly locks in place. You might try 2 gaskets stacked together or a older valve cover from the carb days. I have no idea if that will clear the upper EFI manifold.


So if this is the case with this guide kit, it should work on an 86 head as well? They have the bolt down rockers and even used the same valve cover as the EFI heads, so I imagine it would. Just wanting to get confirmation.

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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #37 by 80broncoman » Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:04 am

apg camo wrote:
80broncoman wrote:
crash-harris wrote:So then can you use this guideplate kit to run 1.75 cheb rockers on the EFI head without milling the rocker bosses down?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Crane-Rocker-Ar ... ea&vxp=mtr

But you only have to drill out the stud holes and tap them appropriately?
.......


Yes on the higher ratio rockers, and No . No machining is required on a bolt down rocker head with that crane kit you linked above.

Also you may not be able to install the stock EFI valve cover with the poly locks in place. You might try 2 gaskets stacked together or a older valve cover from the carb days. I have no idea if that will clear the upper EFI manifold.


So if this is the case with this guide kit, it should work on an 86 head as well? They have the bolt down rockers and even used the same valve cover as the EFI heads, so I imagine it would. Just wanting to get confirmation.



I don't see a stock EFI valve cover fitting anything other than the factory
Bolt down rockers. It might work, but it looks too low to me.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #38 by crash-harris » Wed Mar 27, 2013 6:42 am

I'm going to be testing that within a month or so, I will post my findings.

EDIT: But not roller rockers though :lol:
Last edited by crash-harris on Wed Mar 27, 2013 5:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 300 roller rockers

Post #39 by apg camo » Wed Mar 27, 2013 12:10 pm

80broncoman wrote:
I don't see a stock EFI valve cover fitting anything other than the factory
Bolt down rockers. It might work, but it looks too low to me.


I know I would have to use a taller valve cover with the roller rockers. I was just using that as a comparison in reference to the EFI head and the 86 head. They are similar. The 86 head even has the boss for the serpentine brackets. My question was since they are similar, then that kit that was linked should work for the 86 head as well?

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