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Cam Timing and EFI

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argo
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Cam Timing and EFI

Post #1 by argo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 12:09 am

I am aware that the factory cam on my 1996 F-150 is installed with 4 degrees of retard. I am also aware that if I correct that by installing it "straight up" (in theory) I will improve low RPM torque and fuel economy. The question I have is will this upset the computer? I installed a Cloyes metal cam gear at least 10 years ago, and at the time I did not change the crank gear because I saw no need. I also was unaware of the factory retard built in to the crank gear on the later engines. I still have the crank gear that came in the kit, and it is marked for retard, straight up and advance. Since the pan gasket is starting to leak, and I am going to have to fix it soon anyway, I may as well install the crank gear and bump the timing to 0 degrees. Has anyone with EFI done this? Especially anyone with EFI and OBDII? I won't mess with it unless I am sure it won't give me drivability issues with the EFI. It would be nice to have a bit more grunt for pulling overdrive now that I have it. The engine likes cruising at 1,500 RPM at 60 MPH, but even slight throttle pressure increases cause the AOD to kick down (like climbing a slight grade). If the engine were more efficient at 1,500 then this might not be an issue. Unfortunately my AOD is calibrated for a 5.0L V8 so it probably is not too keen on being at 1,500 cruise anyway, especially since I am running 31 inch tires and the donor truck used 235 75 R15s. I have contemplated this for a long time, the new to me AOD is just furthering the case for it. I want to do it even if I swap the AOD for a C6.

So, have any EFI people done this and had issues? If not, did you see an increase in responsiveness? Fuel Economy? Thanks for the input.
"The Argo" 321,000 miles and counting
It was a 1996 2wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6 NP-435 2.73:1 8.8" Rear;
It is a 1996 4wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6, C6 Transmission, 3.55:1 axles (limited slip in rear), BW 1356 manual shift transfer case with manual hubs
"Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! I Swear! Tractors is so dumb!" - Mater

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bubba22349
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Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:49 am

If your looking for more bottom end torque advanceing the cam to 0 or straight up will not do that, it will do the opposite raising the power band to a higher RPM. As far as effecting the computer tune with the OBDII system you could probably tune around that change with some effort. Edit :oopsie: case of of OAS on cam timing (Old Age Syndrome)
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #3 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jul 24, 2013 3:30 pm

bubba22349 wrote:If your looking for more bottom end torque advanceing the cam to 0 or straight up will not do that, it will do the opposite raising the power band to a higher RPM. As far as effecting the computer tune with the OBDII system you could probably tune around that change with some effort.

Advancing the cam will close the intake valve earlier, trapping more charge in the cylinder and increasing low end torque, but will lose power on the top end where the volumetric efficiency is already woefully inadequate.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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argo
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Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #4 by argo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 5:21 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:If your looking for more bottom end torque advanceing the cam to 0 or straight up will not do that, it will do the opposite raising the power band to a higher RPM. As far as effecting the computer tune with the OBDII system you could probably tune around that change with some effort.

Advancing the cam will close the intake valve earlier, trapping more charge in the cylinder and increasing low end torque, but will lose power on the top end where the volumetric efficiency is already woefully inadequate.


Which is my point. The engine doesn't like the far side of 3,000 RPM anyway, so I may as well play to it's strengths.
"The Argo" 321,000 miles and counting
It was a 1996 2wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6 NP-435 2.73:1 8.8" Rear;
It is a 1996 4wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6, C6 Transmission, 3.55:1 axles (limited slip in rear), BW 1356 manual shift transfer case with manual hubs
"Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! I Swear! Tractors is so dumb!" - Mater

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MechRick
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Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #5 by MechRick » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:16 pm

Your 1996 has a maf sensor, right? I doubt such a small change as altering cam timing will trigger a light.

Changing the cam timing will affect manifold vacuum at idle. Maf-equipped trucks don't use a map sensor. My truck is speed density and has a stock cam (straight up) and stock ecu and runs great. The light pops on a few minutes after driving but it's because I haven't gotten around to reinstalling the air/egr solenoids yet...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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argo
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Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #6 by argo » Wed Jul 24, 2013 11:33 pm

Indeed it does have MAF. I think I'll be bumping the cam forward to 0* in the not too distant future. Also, I may be modifying the O2 sensor signal to get a slightly leaner cruise mixture as well. But one change at a time. Cam timing bump it is.
"The Argo" 321,000 miles and counting
It was a 1996 2wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6 NP-435 2.73:1 8.8" Rear;
It is a 1996 4wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6, C6 Transmission, 3.55:1 axles (limited slip in rear), BW 1356 manual shift transfer case with manual hubs
"Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! I Swear! Tractors is so dumb!" - Mater

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argo
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Location: Sussex County, DE

Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #7 by argo » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:28 am

OK, another question: On the "retarded" 300s, is the cam retard built in to the cam, or is the cam retard built into the factory crank gear and/or cam gear?
"The Argo" 321,000 miles and counting
It was a 1996 2wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6 NP-435 2.73:1 8.8" Rear;
It is a 1996 4wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6, C6 Transmission, 3.55:1 axles (limited slip in rear), BW 1356 manual shift transfer case with manual hubs
"Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! I Swear! Tractors is so dumb!" - Mater

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MechRick
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Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #8 by MechRick » Thu Jul 25, 2013 12:17 pm

The cam is the same on all the sixes. The retard is in the gear set.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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argo
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Posts: 272
Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2004 11:16 am
Location: Sussex County, DE

Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #9 by argo » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:04 pm

Thanks! Sorry I didn't get back sooner, but I was locked out because I changed mt email address. I think I am going to go from 4 degrees retarded to 4 degrees advanced.
"The Argo" 321,000 miles and counting
It was a 1996 2wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6 NP-435 2.73:1 8.8" Rear;
It is a 1996 4wd Ford F-150 300ci Inline 6, C6 Transmission, 3.55:1 axles (limited slip in rear), BW 1356 manual shift transfer case with manual hubs
"Ah Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha! I Swear! Tractors is so dumb!" - Mater

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Location: On a dirt road near Washington Nebr.

Re: Cam Timing and EFI

Post #10 by BIG 6 farmer » Sun Jul 28, 2013 12:16 pm

Look up Ak Miller, He did alot of early Performance work on the 240/300 sixes. and others too. you might find some info Cam timing :hmmm:
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

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