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Rough Start with a mystery?

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jstmrn79
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Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #1 by jstmrn79 » Wed Jan 08, 2014 4:36 pm

95 300-6 EFI. When I start it on the street it has trouble firing off. I kinda have to pump the gas which is weird. And then it sounds like it wants to die for about 10 seconds. Strong smell of gasoline follows. And I know I have an exhaust leak at the manifold.

Here is the Mystery. When my truck is parked at any angle, Up or down hill, it fires right off when I turn the key. :shock:

I don't know anything about this engine. its the first 300 I have ever owned. Any assistance would be appreciated.

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ludwig
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #2 by ludwig » Wed Jan 08, 2014 7:41 pm

I believe there there is a fuel flow cutoff switch up under the dashboard on the firewall inside the cab to stop the gas flow in the event of rollover. This might be defective and need replacing. I had an 86 and there was a recall for that.

I have the same truck as you and there has always been a strong gas odor in the cab. For some reason (not wisdom or intelligence), I decided to check the charcoal canister on the passenger side by the lower front of the fender well. Turns out that the charcoal was long gone and the thing was bone empty with only a few shards of rust. I ended up getting a new one along with a couple lengths of new hose to replace the brittle one. For some reason, it takes three sizes to get in and out of the canister and the T. That stopped the gasoline smell in the cab, which came through the heater air intake.

As for not starting on the level, it might be some rust in the tank blocking the the fuel inlet and it falls away when not sitting flat. Or some sort of contamination that does NOT fill the inlet well when on a slope.

That's all I got. Now for the guys who really know their stuff to chime in.
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jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #3 by jstmrn79 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:03 am

Thanks Ludwig,

I will look into that charcoal canister. And the Truck was my old construction truck. I finally retired it to a life of easy living.

I will report my findings for reference.

country fried 6
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #4 by country fried 6 » Thu Jan 09, 2014 2:54 pm

sounds more likely to me that it's flooding do to a leaking injector or fuel pressure regulator. rather than pumping the pedal just hold it to the floor, this shuts off the injectors to avoid adding more fuel when it's already flooded. to check the regulator you can pull the vacuum hose off and cycle the key, see if fuel come out of the vacuum nipple.

jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #5 by jstmrn79 » Thu Jan 16, 2014 5:56 pm

Ok. I took apart the throttle body. Is it supposed to be midnight black? lol

So i cleaned everything. I didnt take apart the intake and clean it out. (small steps) but the TBI is clean.

The super high idle has stopped. It runs great and appears I have gained 1 mpg. (not huge but a victory for me)

Country, thanks for the pedal advice. It seems to start rougher but holding the pedal down makes it start, then I just have to baby it till it fires up completely. Please bear with my ignorance. I'm trying to learn about this engine. Where would I find the vacuum nipple to check the leak? And once off I just have someone turn the key off and on to check if it leaks? Thanks.

Ludwig I still havent checked the canister. But will be doing so this weekend.

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #6 by country fried 6 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:33 pm

the regulator is about 2" diameter round "pot" I guess, mounted on one end of the fuel rail, I don't recall if it's front or rear on a 300. you will a vacuum hose connected to the top of it, pull the hose off, if you had it running beforehand fuel might run out if it's leaking. if not cycle the key, you could use an assistant for this but not really needed, and watch it for a minute. if there is any presence of fuel the regulator is bad.

an F250 with a 302 was towed into our shop one day for a no start. turns out that when it wouldn't start the guy opened the hood and saw the vacuum line was off of the regulator and fuel was spraying out. naturally he thought he had just found the problem so reinstalled the vacuum hose with a hose clamp to keep it on. I don't know how long/if he ran it that way but when it got to us it was hydro-locked and had a bent rod.

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ludwig
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #7 by ludwig » Fri Jan 17, 2014 1:55 pm

Hey, if it don't start after an hour and half, time to quit cranking.
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bubba22349
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 3:16 pm

X2 on regulator! On my 94 F150 all I do is turn the key on listen for the fuel to run and pressurize the fuel system then when it' stops turn the key to start I don't touch the gas pedal until its running. If everything is working as it should you should never need to touch the gas pedal. By pumping the pedal or holding the pedal down your flooding it out and washing down your cylinders. Keep going looks like your making progress, good luck :thumbup:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #9 by country fried 6 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 4:10 pm

bubba22349 wrote:X2 on regulator! On my 94 F150 all I do is turn the key on listen for the fuel to run and pressurize the fuel system then when it' stops turn the key to start I don't touch the gas pedal until its running. If everything is working as it should you should never need to touch the gas pedal. By pumping the pedal or holding the pedal down your flooding it out and washing down your cylinders. Keep going looks like your making progress, good luck :thumbup:


holding the pedal to the floor while cranking puts the ECM in "clear flood" mode, disabling the injectors.

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bubba22349
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #10 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 17, 2014 9:18 pm

:hmmm: Yes ok sure, but I guess it all depends on the goal of the OP. Does he want to actually fix the Fuel / Emission systems faults so it runs as it could or just continue to drive it as is.
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #11 by country fried 6 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 11:21 am

I advised him to try this as a way to confirm that it is in fact flooded, if he had held the pedal down and it did not start but did start with the pedal released or pumped then we could have ruled out the idea that it was flooding out when left sitting. sounds to me like it is flooding.

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bubba22349
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 18, 2014 1:37 pm

X2 I think your right that its flooding! Last year had to go through my 94 to get it to pass Ca smog it was just slightly rich so was not so easy to find a cause, truck had all its original equipment and oem parts. Turned out to be several little things, a few vacuum lines (plastic originals) and electrical connections to solenoid, also put a new fuel reg. and ox sensor since they had never been changed, though it ran good before it now runs better then it ever did since I owned it. :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #13 by jstmrn79 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 10:52 am

Thanks for all the info guys! Really appreciate it. I had to spend the weekend on my wife's car unfortunately. So I didnt get to play with the green machine. :mrgreen:

jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #14 by jstmrn79 » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:09 am

Charcoal Canister has also been inspected. completely empty. I have found some info on doing maintenance on it. But no one talks about how to refill it? Is there a package or a canister you replace?

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #15 by ludwig » Tue Jan 21, 2014 11:32 am

I believe it is a package deal. Costs a hundred something at O'Reilly's. Bummer. All I did was snap the nipple off the top when trying to remove the hose.

Probably the technical answer with your fuel regulator is closer to the solution. The canister collects the gas surge and returns it as vapor to the tank when you turn the engine off and draws the tank vapor when it's running or vice versa. That's why you get the smell when it is empty.

This one is cheap:

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/shop_ ... -1995.html
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #16 by jstmrn79 » Tue Mar 04, 2014 2:10 pm

OK GREAT NEWS!!!
I replaced the regulator, Spark Plugs, Belt, tensioner, Radiator (because i put a hole in it :bang: ) It seems to be working great!. It starts a lot better. Haven't replaced the Charcoal Canister yet. Now it seems to be stuck in a high idle. It just seems like its running about 400 rpms more that it should. Since i dont have a tachometer, I cant tell for sure. It just sounds high. And every once in a while when it starts rough, it still has a dark black smoke.

What do yall think?

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #17 by BIG 6 farmer » Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:14 pm

My guess is you need to change your oil? :hmmm: Prob. diluted with Gasoline from your bad Fuel Press. Reg. That will confuse your ECU, That might explain your higher idle too?... Have came across more than a few too many bad Fuel Press. Reg. in the last few years on Fords :bang: Had a real hair puller a while back on my 87 Turbo Coupe T-Bird... Till I got smart and hooked up press. gauge. Was blowing fuel hose off pump in tank. Had 100 psi going, never saw that one before... Now I will hook up the gauge even for a tune up. :nod: Yes, I know better. Just getting old & lazy... It does seem besides flat out failing, they do get out of range/specs. Like Bubba said, my car runs better now than I can remember...
83 F 150 SB 4x4 300 six NP 4speed - - 1950 IHC L162 (1&1/2 ton?) - 87 & 88 T-Bird Turbo Coupes - 2000 Triumph Tiger , 76 Honda GL 1000 , & other toys and parts (& junk) -

jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #18 by jstmrn79 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:48 pm

Thanks Big 6,
I actually just changed the oil the same day I did the plugs. Royal puple with K&N oil filter. Strange thing is that when the AC clutch is on. It almost sounds like a normal truck. But when it stops it revs back up. Im sure its killing my MPG. And its only in Neutral. In gear it sounds fine. Temps fine, Im going to take it to auto zone and pull the codes. Will report back.

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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #19 by tom954x4 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 5:57 pm

For your idle issues, take a real close look at the vacuum lines coming of the little manifold thingy on top of the intake, passenger side, lines run to various places in the engine compartment. These lines get old and can crack causing a manifold leak, resulting in higher rpm at idle.
I bought about 10 or 15 feet of rubber tubing and replaced some of those lines, and it eliminated a high idle problem I had with my '95.
1995 F-150 XL, 300-6, 4x4, ex-cab, sb, 3.08 5-speed, 2 1/2 in. exhaust w/flowmaster 50, MSDignition failed with no warning, now out, canopy, 179,000 + miles. Gone but not forgotten 1965 F-100 240 3spd lwb "the green hornet"; 1960 F-250 4x4, 223 six, 4sp with wrap-around rear window, two-tone paint, overhead camper.
Tow vehicle: 2012 F-250 4x4 6.7 diesel XLT s/c lwb

jstmrn79
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Re: Rough Start with a mystery?

Post #20 by jstmrn79 » Wed Mar 05, 2014 8:29 pm

Thanks Tom!
I think I will try this, this weekend. They are probably 20 years old.

HEY!!! Here's a though? My truck can by my beer next year!! LOL :beer:

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