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Need Help With Timing

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80ford100
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Need Help With Timing

Post #1 by 80ford100 » Sun Aug 31, 2014 1:24 pm

I have a 300 with a 268 comp cam and the stock dura spark 2 ignition. I don't think I have yet to get the timing right. I'm using the timing marks on the passenger side tab and a timing light. I've also tried a vacume gauge. When I use the timing light I turn the distributor clockwise and it begins to noticeably lope which is what i like but is has less power than when i use the gauge. When I use the gauge i disconnect the vacume advance just like I do with the timing light and the gauge has me turn the the distributor counterclockwise to increase the vacume. When I use the gauge it hardly lopes at idle but has more power getting off the line. I am really confused and could use yawls help please!
Thanks, John

motzingg
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #2 by motzingg » Tue Sep 02, 2014 1:59 pm

are you saying you want it to lope/surge at idle? like a big cam V8? I don't know how these engines run with something like a 268 cam, but i'm guessing since they are even-fire and balanced, they probably wont act like that until the cam gets really really big, even then if they are properly tuned they probably don't run that bad.

the loping/surging is really just the engine running like crap, you could probably achieve the same thing by screwing up the carb tuning. Heck your stock corolla will have a loping idle if you unplug a sensor or two.

what are you timing it to with the light?

typically i unhook the vac on the distributor, hook up a vac gauge. start the truck and set the initial timing at 10-15 deg with the light, and fine tune with the vac gauge. run it up to high idle, then full speed with the light to check the mechanical advance, then re-connect the vac to the distributor and run it up to high idle, then high speed and check the advance with vac. usually if you tune to highest vac, you'll get a hair of knock under heavy accel, so i think most people say to pull it down a bit retarded from max vac.

i'm sure there are better/more scientific ways to do it requiring additional tools or whatever, but that works pretty well for me.

If you're saying that you want to intentionally mis-tune it to create a lopey idle... can't help ya there.

1986F150six
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Location: Northwest Alabama

Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #3 by 1986F150six » Tue Sep 02, 2014 2:29 pm

By rotating the distributor clockwise, the timing is being retarded. That is why the performance suffers.

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MechRick
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #4 by MechRick » Tue Sep 02, 2014 8:14 pm

You don't happen to own a Harley, do you? :?

Seriously, what you are describing is what carbed Harley owners do by turning the idle speed down, to get the 45 degree twin to hit-skip-miss at idle.

The 268H Comp cam is pretty mild. I was able to completely tune the lope out of it by running the carb fat and raising idle speed (~800). If you want it to lope, try hooking the vacuum advance line to carb ported vacuum (the port that has no vacuum at idle and plenty of vacuum off idle). Set the timing to factory specs. Set the idle to ~750 RPM. Lean out the idle mixture screws a bit. Should lope nicely...

If you can't get it to run well at factory specs, check your balancer marks. No degree wheel needed, just stick an extension down the number one plug hole and rotate the crank until the extension is highest, then check your marks. Don't use the starter or you will break a piston...

By the way, the ignition requirements of a given engine are determined by the combustion chamber shape, which is determined mostly by the head and somewhat by the piston design.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

Econo4spd
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Re: Need Help With Timing - Passenger side marks

Post #5 by Econo4spd » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:51 am

A mechanic friend of mine provided a bit O' history on the passenger side timing tab with the tube on my '85.

He said it was specifically for a special Ford Dealer analyzer/ tune up device. It is not for use with a timing light.

The conventional timing marks are cast into the timing gear cover and someplace on the damper is a notch to mark TDC. The rubber in my damper was so oil soaked and soft that the damper rim had slipped about 90 degrees.
Serious Utility Vehicle, someday Vans will be cool again!

4spd OD (Save the Manuals!)
9 inch 3.00:1
No longer stock '85 E150 stripper cargo in Shelby White. Offy (divided plenum), 2150 2V, EFI exh Mani, pocket port, DS-II

guhfluh
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #6 by guhfluh » Tue Oct 07, 2014 10:33 am

I have a mutt of an engine, with a store bought balancer for who knows what year 300, but it's V-belt and 3 groove. The timing cover cast in marks do not line up with any marks on the balancer, but the 1985 timing tab on the passenger side lined up perfectly. Checking with TDC on cylinder one, it lines up very close, so that is what I use and believe to be correct. The hole in the tab may have been for something else, but the timing marks I believe to be correct. If I could get a piston stop to work in this engine, I'd make a perfect mark to be as accurate as possible, but the plug being at an angle and the piston so far down, I haven't had any luck.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

Harte3
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #7 by Harte3 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:23 pm

Once one starts to modify like with a bigger cam the factory settings are out the window and one has to tune to what the engine likes.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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MechRick
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #8 by MechRick » Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:44 pm

Econo4spd wrote:A mechanic friend of mine provided a bit O' history on the passenger side timing tab with the tube on my '85.


The tube was for a magnetic timing probe for the big roll around engine analyzers. My Allen DEA had one. You programmed the probe offset into the scope (varied from vehicle to vehicle as a spec looked up in a book) and the ignition timing was then displayed on the screen with other information (vacuum, 4 gas, etc.). They went away with square-headed nails, high button shoes and distributors...
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #9 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Oct 07, 2014 5:42 pm

Now what am I going to do with all these square headed nails???
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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MechRick
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #10 by MechRick » Tue Oct 07, 2014 8:35 pm

I got a box of distributors, I'll trade ya.... :D

I wonder how many on this forum has even *seen* a square-headed nail!
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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bubba22349
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #11 by bubba22349 » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:28 pm

:rolflmao: Seen a few square head nails over the years of working in construction. I think when I start opening some of the walls in my current house just might find them (was built in the 1880's).
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

guhfluh
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Re: Need Help With Timing

Post #12 by guhfluh » Tue Oct 07, 2014 9:38 pm

I love the character the square head nails give to my family's older homes and furniture, etc. :)
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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