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any experience with mass market long blocks

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f100owner
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any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #1 by f100owner » Tue Dec 23, 2014 11:59 am

Looking to replace the 240 in my 71 F100 with a 300 long block. The 240 has issues (smokes, runs pretty rough) and locally no one wants to really tackle it. So I am planning on getting a long block and doing the work myself. At the same time, I am going to swap out the 3-on-the-tree for a c4 transmission.
In any event, I have been kind of leaning towards a long block from ATK/Sparta, the engine rebuilder used by NAPA and AdvancedAuto.
They won't use my 240 as a core for the 300 and they don't do 240s, so there is $350 in extra costs there.
I am not trying to do anything more than get a decent running, dependable driver.
Any insight to the process and my approach would be suggested.
Texas;
1971 F100 - 240CID
2016 Ford Expedition
2015 Ford Fusion
2016 Harley - Ultra Limited.

Harte3
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #2 by Harte3 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:46 pm

'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

f100owner
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #3 by f100owner » Tue Dec 23, 2014 1:56 pm

I am familiar with Jasper at strictly a pricing/inquiry level. Much more (twice) as expensive as NAPA/AdvancedAuto but I am considering them as a local shop uses them.
Will check out motorworks as well.
Texas;
1971 F100 - 240CID
2016 Ford Expedition
2015 Ford Fusion
2016 Harley - Ultra Limited.

f100owner
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #4 by f100owner » Tue Dec 23, 2014 3:41 pm

Motor Works, which I cannot find any real negatives about, plus they have a good BB rating says it will cost me:
$390 shipping;
$200 core wash (they won't accept my core);
$150 value A;
$1521 300 CID long block.
The value A package gets me valve cover, side cover, oil pan and timing chain cover. Probably worth the money.
All is painted.
Texas;
1971 F100 - 240CID
2016 Ford Expedition
2015 Ford Fusion
2016 Harley - Ultra Limited.

Harte3
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #5 by Harte3 » Tue Dec 23, 2014 5:27 pm

Motor Works built my engine. Back in the day they had a contract with UPS to rebuild engines...they were quite familiar with the 300 I6.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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MechRick
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #6 by MechRick » Tue Dec 23, 2014 6:36 pm

Be careful with budget reman engines. My experience is most of them use the hand-grenade method (close is good enough) for setting clearances. You would be better off handing the engine off to a machinist and let them rebuild and give it back to you.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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mwilliamshs
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #7 by mwilliamshs » Tue Dec 23, 2014 9:50 pm

MechRick wrote:You would be better off handing the engine off to a machinist and let them rebuild and give it back to you.


From the first post in the thread:
f100owner wrote:...and locally no one wants to really tackle it...


So there's that.
1989 E-150 Extended Body SuperVan Sportsmobile Camper Conversion 4.9L, C6, 3.08 R&P

sdiesel
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Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #8 by sdiesel » Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:59 pm

any good machine shop "would tackle it " a good amchine shop gives you control over the costs and the parts and the build

somewhere in this forum is a list of reputable machine shops that we have compiled.
my opinion is any machine shop that wont tackle it is not a machine shop worthy of the name.
In my area there is no better choice than bill castle in longview washington
but there is jobbers service on the west coast.
many, many others.

jobbers service did the 300 for the airport shuttle tractors for years.

machine shops that have specialized in "racing, perfromance engines " i have found to be less spectacular than their flashy mottos and advertising.
i avoid them. example in my area maslin machine, schnell machine etc.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

f100owner
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #9 by f100owner » Wed Dec 24, 2014 10:57 pm

In our small town there are no machine shops. All of the mechanics I have visited with have indicated they would send any machine work to any number of shops in San Antonio, 65 miles away. The last commercial machine shop here was actually operated by Napa. It shut down several years ago.
Texas;
1971 F100 - 240CID
2016 Ford Expedition
2015 Ford Fusion
2016 Harley - Ultra Limited.

J.R.
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #10 by J.R. » Thu Dec 25, 2014 5:41 am

f100owner wrote:In our small town there are no machine shops. All of the mechanics I have visited with have indicated they would send any machine work to any number of shops in San Antonio, 65 miles away. The last commercial machine shop here was actually operated by Napa. It shut down several years ago.


If you can get some good shop recommendations, it seems like it might be worth a phone call or two, as well as the drive to San Antonio, to personally deliver your engine to a good shop there.

At that point they'd likely give you a choice of having them rebuild it as a 240 or a 300; obviously the block & head would work either way. A crank kit and a set of pistons & rods should price out about the same for a 300 as a 240, and the 300 setup is probably more commonly available anyway.

J.R.
SoCal

sdiesel
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #11 by sdiesel » Thu Dec 25, 2014 8:56 am

A reliable guaranteed rebuild from a machine shop, a long block, should cost just over 2000 dollars not more than 2500. assuming your core is rebuildable

no shipping no core charge and 65 miles is about 20 in gas
and last time i was in san antonio as a traveling musician 30 years ago, it was a beautiful place to visit;
ask around here and on HAMB forum for machine shops in that town
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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mwilliamshs
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #12 by mwilliamshs » Thu Dec 25, 2014 6:22 pm

Given the long service life of these motors and the fact that they're less prized than their contemporaries in the used market, I have to wonder why pulling a used 300 from a parts vehicle isn't your Plan A. I'd pull the valve cover and if things there were in order there, I'd pull the motor. Pop the head and the pan, look things over and install fresh gaskets all over. Off and running for 3 casual days work and a grand.

First though I'd scour craigslist for an engine or cheap vehicle for parts. Deals are out there.

EDIT: went to san antonio craigslist. Typed "Ford 300" in.the search bar. 1st page of results has one, complete from air cleaner to oil pan, all accessories included for $600.https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/pts/4793660699.html


And a complete truck (pretty darn decent looking) with a 300 in it for $1500.https://sanantonio.craigslist.org/cto/4806951321.html
1989 E-150 Extended Body SuperVan Sportsmobile Camper Conversion 4.9L, C6, 3.08 R&P

arse_sidewards
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #13 by arse_sidewards » Sat Dec 27, 2014 9:49 am

I second the used engine. Grab a 96 engine (hypereutectic pistons in 96), preferably from a van (for the better p/s pump), install new main and rod bearings, gaskets and seals all around, put your 240 head on top (with 1.7 GM rockers because you're already in there). That's $200 of materials (buying new on eBay and not shopping around too much) and an evening of work. The engine could be $200-$500 depending on where you get it. The hoist, engine stand, leveler, dolly, can of PB blaster, and other tools you might need to acquire will cost $200ish if you go the HF route, less if you use the 20% coupons on everything.

The engine is best removed/installed without manifolds or accessories and no radiator in the truck. The swap can be done at a snails pace in two weeks if you work evenings only, do the engine moving on a weekend and then spend more evenings reassembling everything. At the end you have a carb'd 300 with hypers, the serpentine accessory drive, EFI manifolds and Chevy rockers, which will feel like a brand new engine compared to a stock 300 let alone a worn out 240.

It's a $1000 swap the first time and only the cost of materials from then on and as a bonus you've got a 240 core sitting on a stand for mockup use (I can't begin to tell you how useful this is) and a rebuild sometime. You'll also find all sorts of ways to use the engine hoist.

There's at least a few dozen people on FSP who could walk you through each step of a partial rebuild and swap in detail.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

motzingg
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #14 by motzingg » Mon Jan 05, 2015 11:20 am

^ I'd 3rd the call on picking up a nice used longblock. If you can get a complete engine and transmission you'll save $500 additional on not having to buy flexplate, torque converter, and any other linkages or junk. Those incidentals are what really add up to the cost of an engine swap.

When i look for engine i try to find one in a vehicle that has clearly been hit and was sent to the yard presumably 'running' you can pull the valve cover to check for excessive sludge residue, and turn it over with a 15/16 socket and watch all valves actuate. 6 even and stiff compression events every 2 turns will tell you that all 6 holes are sealing.

This is pretty much what i've just done, and it has gone pretty well except for a few easily overcome issues:

#1) motor mounts are different for EFI, you will probably want to buy new motor mounts anyhow, and they will have to be modified to fit the EFI era block. The dipstick is also different but you can use the EFI one just fine.

2) the 240 head (if you reuse it) will probably need surfaced and valves ground or replaced. Probably just ground. The surface thing not such a big deal, but once you have the head apart its so easy to do, totally worth it for the peace of mind.

3) the serp belt brackets dont have one of the mounting bosses on the old heads... not sure if this is a big deal yet, but if you plan on running all the accessories it could crack, maybe?

4) no fuel pump on the EFI block, buy an electric one. Hook it up with a fuse and prime it. I fried mine the first time out. Rock auto had it for 15 bucks, auto parts store wanted like 50. Lots of good aftermarket options.


hmm what else, i dunno... lots of good 300 motors laying around junkyards. U-pull it yards will get about 200 complete longblock, but they will nickel and dime you up to 500 by the time you buy accessories.

It took me about 3 hours to pull mine, mostly by myself but having a buddy helps a lot.

1986F150six
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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #15 by 1986F150six » Wed Jan 07, 2015 3:09 pm

f100owner wrote:Looking to replace the 240 in my 71 F100 with a 300 long block. The 240 has issues (smokes, runs pretty rough) and locally no one wants to really tackle it. So I am planning on getting a long block and doing the work myself. At the same time, I am going to swap out the 3-on-the-tree for a c4 transmission.
In any event, I have been kind of leaning towards a long block from ATK/Sparta, the engine rebuilder used by NAPA and AdvancedAuto.
They won't use my 240 as a core for the 300 and they don't do 240s, so there is $350 in extra costs there.
I am not trying to do anything more than get a decent running, dependable driver.
Any insight to the process and my approach would be suggested.


I am late to the party [been away], but when I read your thread, I couldn't help but wish you were closer. My good friend recently purchased a 1986 F150 with 4.9L engine and C6 automatic. The truck belonged to a local utility department and has 61K miles. I am not trying to sell anything [freight would be a killer!!!], but asked him what he wanted for the engine and transmission? This is just to help you in getting a feeling for what you might find closer to you. $550 was his answer.

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Re: any experience with mass market long blocks

Post #16 by motzingg » Wed Jan 07, 2015 5:11 pm

http://austin.craigslist.org/pts/4809077104.html

here's a EFI motor w/ a 5 speed for $400

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