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24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

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Codyjames990
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24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #1 by Codyjames990 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:19 pm

I just rebuilt my 240 for my 1978 Ford f150

For the gentlemen who read my last about the truck not going over 35 mph...well I believe there might be a bigger issue in my way

I understood that rebuilt engines smoke for a while..at least within the 500 mile range. I also understand that there is a process in breaking in a rebuilt engine. Such things I did included :
* I didn't redline or drive it up to highway speeds.
* I did have alot of "stop and goes"
* I changed the oil within the first 100 miles as well.
The only mistake I can account for is using synthetic oil. I read somewhere online that it cause the rings not to bed in as well ( is that true?)

The truck is getting close to 200 maybe even 300 miles now and I have burned up close to 10 quarts of oil, I'm driving the truck and a small to noticble blue smoke keeps trailing behind. Stoplights in town are utterly embarrassing as a heavy amount of smoke billows out from underneath truck because it was gathering.If I leave it it at a idle I can pop the hood open and watch smoke just keep exiting the breathers.

The mechanic advice I received from one gentlemen told me it wasn't necessary to hone or bore out the cylinder walls and just buy replacement rings. I trusted this advice do to my lack of knowledge and inexperience.

Now in conclusion I know the rings are NOT seated properly because of this. I'm just wandering what's the next step. Can I just buy oversized rings ? Or do I need to remove engine and bore it out and so forth.

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bubba22349
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:48 pm

:hmmm: They used to recommend not using synthetic oil until a new engine had about 10,000 to 20,000 miles. I don't know if that wisdom still holds true but myself I wouldn't use it until then. When installing new rings you should at a minimum cut the ridge out of the top of cylinders if it had them, then deglaze the cylinders with a bottle brush hone or with a regular cylinder hone. Did you happen to do any measurements of the cylinders when it was apart? IE the Bore size compared to pistions, or check for cylinder taper, and the ring end gap? My best guess without knowing the measurements is that if your using that much oil in so few miles is that engine block will likely need to be bored oversize and a new set of pistons installed, but without seeing it or knowing what it measures its only a guess. You could also try some regular oil for while and see what happens. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

old jupiter
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #3 by old jupiter » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:27 am

You might want to find a shop that can do a "blowdown test" aka cylinder leakdown test to tell the state of your ring sealing, and if that is really the problem, and if it is confined to one cylinder or more. VERY useful test both for problem analysis on any sort of piston engine, yet strangely it seems not to be used much (other than its constant use by top racing engine builders for NASCAR and other professional circuits).

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #4 by Sick6Turbo » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:23 am

Best way: Bore and hone, install oversized pistons and rings. Smallest oversize as possible.

Economical way: Ridge ream ridge if any on top of cylinders, hone cylinders, install standard rings(if standard bore) with proper gaps and correct side up. Also making sure piston skirt to cylinder wall clearance is within tolerance.

Possible way: Drain oil and add conventional oil. If it doesn't help after a few quarts of oil usage, add a quart of atf. Add only conventional oil as needed after. Use at your own risk.

We used to add a quart of atf when it turned cold to help with cold starting with no ill effects. It helps clean and thins the oil. Also used to add a quart of atf about a 100 miles before oil changes in the summer. This was way back when we used straight 30w year round with Pennzoil.

I have done a quicky re-ring test on a 2.3 Ford 4 cylinder a long time ago. It had a ridge in all cylinders. Popped the pistons out and replaced only the 2nd rings and oil rings because of course fresh top rings could break with a ridge still in the cylinders. Power restored and no smoke. I highly doubt it would last more than 20,000 miles but you never know. Goes to show renewed ring tension can help, but is likely short term.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #5 by Sick6Turbo » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:39 am

Also, I use VR-1 Racing valvoline conventional oil in the Sleeper and recommend it with flat tappet camshafts. It outperforms synthetic oils in pressure tests and has a very good zinc and zddp counts. It doesn't have too much zinc and zddp (like some racing oils) that required more frequent oil changes because the additives that help make a flat tappet camshaft live, are also corrosive. I spike the VR-1 Racing conventional oil with 2 ounces of Lucas engine break-in additive to help with the high spring pressures I run.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #6 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:50 pm

I'll try convential oil first..

So I received some advice from the same man who told me it wasn't necessary to bore or hone. Why am I talking with this guy?, well I wanted to notify him on the results of the rebuilt. His response? Drop oil pan, remove piston from below (or from the head) and replace with oversized rings.. I assume it isn't just that nor would over sized rings would just snap in with standard pistons and the original cylinder bore. Tell me I'm right .. Right ?

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #7 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:04 pm

RUN!

Run far from this man and start anew with a better source of advice.

Anybody who does not know that pistons cannot be removed/installed from the pan side of a 300 should not be listened to for advice.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:11 pm

:rolflmao: X2 Yes I agree with FTF on that! And you can't use a set of oversized rings in a Standard bore block (IE the pistons will have no marking or STD.) or did you see any markings on the pistion tops indicateing it was bored over size? IE like .020, .030, .040, etc? Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #9 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:43 pm

There was so much carbon build up I used a brillow pad to clean them up..I believe I might have cleaned any markings with.

I hear ya! I'm not affiliating myself with him anymore when it comes to my truck.. I already was alarmed when he told me that :shock:

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #10 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:07 pm

So I'm trying to learn something new here.

From what I understand is..
Unless the engine block was already bored out I can use oversized rings ? If not .and its original, well I can't because ...because umm that's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. I'll do some searching again to clarify but I do appreciate the knowledge. If anything I can throw it in that guys face if wants to argue.

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #11 by Fordman75 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:58 pm

Codyjames990 wrote:So I'm trying to learn something new here.

From what I understand is..
Unless the engine block was already bored out I can use oversized rings ? If not .and its original, well I can't because ...because umm that's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. I'll do some searching again to clarify but I do appreciate the knowledge. If anything I can throw it in that guys face if wants to argue.


To put it simply: to use oversized rings, you need to use over sized pistons. To use over sized pistons you need the cylinders in the engine block bored out( over bored ) . You need to match the ring size/s( bore size & thickness ) to the piston size ( both bore and ring land widths ).

And there is more to installing rings then just slapping them on the pistons. You have to install them right side up. The ring end gaps have to be within specs and you need to stagger/clock the ring end gaps. You don't want to line up all the ring end gaps.

If you are going to get into the engine work I would suggest getting some good repair manuals for both your vehicle and the engine. :thumbup:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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bubba22349
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:04 pm

Codyjames990 wrote:So I'm trying to learn something new here.

From what I understand is..
Unless the engine block was already bored out I can use oversized rings ? If not .and its original, well I can't because ...because umm that's the part I'm having a hard time understanding. I'll do some searching again to clarify but I do appreciate the knowledge. If anything I can throw it in that guys face if wants to argue.


1. No it's just the opposite "you can not use an over size set of rings in a Standard Bore Block"! You could use a set of file to fit rings or the zero gap rings.

2. Standard just means it's still the original size and this applies to most everything in the engine, Pistons, Rings, Rod and Main Bearings, etc.

3. Oversize pistons are stamped with number dies. You won't remove the numbers using a Brillo pad on the tops.

4. Original or factory Standard pistions are not marked unless they are a replacement aftermarket set then would be marked Std.

Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #13 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:18 pm

I found a picture of my piston when I was rebuilding.

It has a 09 or 90 on it ..so it was rebored? !!! And I used standard rings when I should have used oversized ??! :bang: :bang:

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #14 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:21 pm

Hello!
codycarter990 shared an album with you.


View Album, http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/codyc ... ry/pistons

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #15 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:22 pm

Here is the photos during the rebuild. If you zoom in on the piston head you can see the number

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #16 by Codyjames990 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:27 pm

Actually that could be 60 not 90 ..sorry standard bores are 30 and 60. Oops

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #17 by Sick6Turbo » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:54 pm

Should be .060 the skirts should measure 4.058-4.059 if a cast piston.
Dale
79 F-100 turbocharged 300 rear mount 20 psi
Stock EFI bottom end, mild port carb head
12.44@106 1/4 mile in 2015

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Oil burn figur

Post #18 by Codyjames990 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:23 pm

Well guys I figured it out. It's been verified

Simple but costly error, but we used standard rings on pistons that were .60 over. I'll be honing and ridge reeming and buying the right parts. Hopefully all will be done next week !

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:38 pm

:beer: congrats on finally finding out, standard vs .060 over is a major difference for ring sealing! Good luck on the rebuild :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #20 by Codyjames990 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 8:43 pm

It makes all the sense now.

I can find relief in knowing I found it. No more guessing what happened.

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #21 by pablo 1089 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 12:56 pm

CJ990, if it is 0.060 overbore, you have probably reached your limit. An honest machinist would be the best advice on this. Anytime you are rebuilding an engine, an honest machinist needs to be on your list of best friends, unless you are a qualified machinist.
Good Luck

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Oil burn figur

Post #22 by BONES4GOLD » Thu Jan 28, 2016 8:08 pm

Codyjames990 wrote:Well guys I figured it out. It's been verified

Simple but costly error, but we used standard rings on pistons that were .60 over. I'll be honing and ridge reeming and buying the right parts. Hopefully all will be done next week !

Alright Codyjames990, be sure and post a happy ending to this saga. I think we all want to hear that your re-rebuild came out well.
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #23 by Codyjames990 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:41 pm

Well guys here you go! I posted as many pictures as I could but my hands remained mostly to my tools.

I can happily say I fixed this issue once and for all!!! My truck runs better than it has ever had. No more burning oil, full compression, and she gets down the road pretty fast if need be. I bought 0.60 over rings and replaced the ones inside and it cleared this issue. Hopefully you guys can view the album I posted to fliker. Photobucket was being a pain so here you go!
https://flic.kr/s/aHsktC6FDY

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #24 by Codyjames990 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 3:47 pm

Here's another album of the truck itself just for the fun of it.

I do want to thank you all. I take ever advice that was sent through the messages you sent to me. I even tightened my rockers like you said sick6turbo! So thank you all.

She still needs alot of attention. The electric wiring needs some work and my dash needs to be replaced but I can at least be at peace with the mechanics at this point.
https://flic.kr/s/aHsktC497d

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #25 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:33 pm

:beer: congrats on a job well done! :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #26 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Jan 30, 2016 12:32 pm

good job

You might want an air cleaner snorkel and heat stove to help cold weather operation.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Codyjames990
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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #27 by Codyjames990 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 3:27 pm

Thanks guys :)

Yeah your right, especially if I move up north to Flagstaff.
I just remembered how difficult it was to find a air cleaner that would fit on that Carter carb.. I found that one so far..

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Re: 24 years old , my first rebuild of a 240. Burning oil ?

Post #28 by Crocodile » Sun Jan 31, 2016 12:31 am

Glad to hear you have it squared away! That's a nice, straight and solid little shortbed you have. Definitely a truck worth the effort!

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