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Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

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arse_sidewards
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Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #1 by arse_sidewards » Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:46 pm

The throttle body gasket surface... because I want to design a TB spacer that's got ports for water/methanol injection. I don't really want to use the EGR location.

While we're at it, the upper/lower intake mating surface. I want to make sure the dimensions I pulled from fragments of a 20yo gasket are correct. Yes I tried pulling the dimensions from the intake, the casting isn't exactly what I would call precise. I have three intakes lying around. The runners aren't exactly round. I'm looking to make a spacer that has grooves for O-rings. It would affect intake harmonics a little bit but the primary goal is to have a metal slug that makes my intake field serviceable, no worrying about having to re-use or find a new gasket, toss the old o--rings on there, cross my fingers and know that it's probably ok.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

CNC-Dude
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #2 by CNC-Dude » Sat Sep 10, 2016 10:18 am

If you can give me the basic bolt pattern and bore size I can draw it up for you. I also have a EFI lower and can create a drawing of the runners that will work for just centering some o-rings on the surface to seal.
Image

arse_sidewards
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #3 by arse_sidewards » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:00 am

CNC-Dude wrote:If you can give me the basic bolt pattern and bore size I can draw it up for you. I also have a EFI lower and can create a drawing of the runners that will work for just centering some o-rings on the surface to seal.


I can do the designs myself. I would much prefer to do them myself. I just need dimensions. I already did the intake flange in CAD but am not 100% sure my dimensions are correct. I have a flange I cut off a lower intake sitting around here (broke all the tabs and I can't weld cast aluminum so it was junk) that I pulled dimensions from. I just want someone else to put a caliper on the bores so I know I did ok. Literally all but one of my measuring implements come from HF. It works fine for me since I measure and build with the same stuff but when I measure with my HF junk and then have someone else build something and they measure with non-HF stuff it gets risky.

My thought was to use O-ring grooves on both sides and use studs in the dowel locations to hold the spacer to the lower intake for assembly. O-rings are cheap and reliable enough that I think it's better to use twelve than to make an adapter for O-rings and use a gasket or RTV to hold that adapter on since that would not be fully field serviceable, even if more O-rings makes it slightly less reliable and a little harder to set up. Obviously I'll need to make a longer support strut for the plenum on the driver's side. The reason I want to do it in CAD vs just machining the flange I have flat is because there's a possibility that in the future I may wind up using really tall valves with really long springs (which will last forever because longer spring = more travel and a spring using a lesser % of it's safe travel will last longer) and having what's essentially an upper/lower intake spacer drawn up and ready to go would be useful.

As far as the TB spacer, I was actually going to do a few different variations on the jet/nozzle locations and the bore that will take fluid to them and then run the designs by the forum to refine it. I'd just copy a TB gasket but I have no idea where any of my TB's or upper intakes are and I don't want to disassemble the one on my truck. Now that I think about it, I should just get a gasket from auto-zone, stick it in the copier with some graph paper and scan it at a bajillion DPI.

Also, sorry about not getting the 3-post alt mount designed yet. My row of engines, transmissions and other large objects on dollies and stands is pretty dense right now and the long-block I use for test fitting and designing stuff isn't coming out without moving 1000lbs of axles, transmissions and lift-gate.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

CNC-Dude
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #4 by CNC-Dude » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:17 am

No problem. Sounds like a good plan though!
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CoupeBoy
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #5 by CoupeBoy » Mon Sep 12, 2016 2:55 pm

I've got that info.. and CAD files to go with it.
I don't have actual measurements, but I could pull them from the drawings.
rectangular openings or 1.625" round hole openings.
Cutting a Throttle body Spacer that is thick, like 1" wouldn't be too much of a problem.
Started on headers and efi intake today! -- Clintonvillian -- FordSix Forum
Image
He used the bottom 2pc flange for his manifolds.
Image

Quick question, why both with any of the original intake at all?
If you had one of my 1.625" intake flanges and then used the same 1.625" hole spacings but with a different outside profile (perhaps a large oval) then you could have pipe from intake flange to intermediate flange, then with small spud/stub shafts you could put o-rings in the throttle body flange.

What I was trying to describe..
IMG_8415.JPG


Actually this might work good for me in the future when I start working on my '67 Mustang. Using my 1pc flange, I could build a shorty 3-2 header and have a removable intake..

The only real advantages I see with using a stock lower are..
1. readily available
2. already have the injector bungs and uses stock fuel rail.

but the downside is that you have to find/buy one and hope it has all the parts you need. With a little planning, I suppose you could weld the injector bungs in at the same distance as the stock and then you could use the stock fuel rail.

crud, sorry for the ramblings..
short version.. I have the intake and throttle body flanges.
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arse_sidewards
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #6 by arse_sidewards » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:31 pm

The goal with the TB spacer is to add a convenient spot for water/methanol injection. A throttle body spacer would be really convenient. I was planning on using O-rings on the intake side of the TB spacer since the intake flange is just a normal flat flange. I'd have to use a stock gasket on the throttle body side since the TB doesn't have a flat face for an O ring to sit on. We're talking about the stock EFI throttle body.

As far as the intake goes I'm looking for a drawing of the flange that connects the upper/lower intake. I've got one drawn in cad but am not 100% confident of my dimensions, particularly bolt/dowel placement and the angle of the runner bores compared to the flange. I want to make sure what I have is correct before I post it.

I'm going to need some sort of spacer raise the upper intake to clear a tall valve cover to clear a roller valve-train that will wind up stupidly tall (because stupidly tall is the best compromise for what I'm trying to do). If I'm gonna make a spacer I may as well go the extra 10% and use O-rings to seal the connection and get all the benefits they bring (cheaper, you can reuse the O-rings if you happen to want to pull the upper intake somewhere a replacement gasket can't easily be found, spares are more durable and take up less space).

The intake spacer is a longer term, lower priority project. I probably won't get around to doing the roller rockers for a long time. The only reason I'm looking into it now is because I have to pull the upper sometime in the next few months to screw with some of the stuff it obstructs and if it makes sense to tackle both projects at once then I will.

I pretty much only screw around with EFI. Most of the cons of tracking down the stock parts go out the window when you have lots of them.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #7 by CoupeBoy » Mon Sep 12, 2016 5:58 pm

arse_sidewards wrote:I'm going to need some sort of spacer raise the upper intake to clear a tall valve cover to clear a roller valve-train that will wind up stupidly tall (because stupidly tall is the best compromise for what I'm trying to do). If I'm gonna make a spacer I may as well go the extra 10% and use O-rings to seal the connection and get all the benefits they bring (cheaper, you can reuse the O-rings if you happen to want to pull the upper intake somewhere a replacement gasket can't easily be found, spares are more durable and take up less space).
How stupid tall does it need to be?

I'm imagining a 1" thick spacer with o-ring grooves cut into the top and bottom, is that correct?
arse_sidewards wrote:The intake spacer is a longer term, lower priority project. I probably won't get around to doing the roller rockers for a long time. The only reason I'm looking into it now is because I have to pull the upper sometime in the next few months to screw with some of the stuff it obstructs and if it makes sense to tackle both projects at once then I will.
"while you are already in there, why not?"
arse_sidewards wrote:I pretty much only screw around with EFI. Most of the cons of tracking down the stock parts go out the window when you have lots of them.
I wish I had some EFI parts to muck about with.
arse_sidewards wrote:As far as the intake goes I'm looking for a drawing of the flange that connects the upper/lower intake. I've got one drawn in cad but am not 100% confident of my dimensions, particularly bolt/dowel placement and the angle of the runner bores compared to the flange. I want to make sure what I have is correct before I post it.
You should call around for a local plasma or laser shop, I bet you could have one cut for a fairly reasonable price. Or make some scale marks on the drawing and print it on paper then test fit it?

arse_sidewards
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Re: Anyone got a dimensional drawing for....?

Post #8 by arse_sidewards » Mon Sep 12, 2016 7:13 pm

CoupeBoy wrote:How stupid tall does it need to be?I'm imagining a 1" thick spacer with o-ring grooves cut into the top and bottom, is that correct?
Yes, the only caveat being that 1" at the flange isn't necessarily 1" at the plenum because it's at an angle. Even so, 1" at the flange is probably sufficient. I've got a set of used NASCAR shaft mount rockers that should live almost forever at 4000rpm and under. All the clean solutions for making a shaft for them to pivot on wind up coming back to adding a fair bit of height.

CoupeBoy wrote:I wish I had some EFI parts to muck about with.

Whenever I see a complete one on CL for $150 or under I buy it. So that's a little under per year. If I went up to $200 it would probably be a little over one per year. Even if you don't want the head it's a ready to go short block with good exhaust, a serpentine belt drive and massive intake that's one machined brick away from accepting a side draft. Double and triple sets of side drafts in appropriate sizes can frequently be found for free if you're willing to scrap the outboard and dispose of the boat they came one.
CoupeBoy wrote: Or make some scale marks on the drawing and print it on paper then test fit it?

'I'll probably do this with paper, glue stick and plywood to start.


So, about those throttle body dimensions?
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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