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Timing Gear Advance?

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85FordI6Wyoming
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Timing Gear Advance?

Post #1 by 85FordI6Wyoming » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:31 pm

Has anybody ever bought the timing set for a 300 inline 6 that gives you the option to advance or retard the cam? I'm wondering if its worth it to advance the timing 4 degrees. Its in an 88 f150 that has the electronic fuel injection. Also wondering if I need to program the computer to run it.
1985 F-150 300 Straight 6 NP435
1979 F-250 400 T-19
1994 F350 7.3 Powerstroke ZF5

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #2 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Mar 16, 2017 2:11 pm

I would like to comment about advancing / retarding cams.

Some folks I've talked to have the mistaken impression than advancing the cam will increase maximum torque. Peak torque will be virtually unchanged. What the advancing does is "rock" the torque curve around the torque peak, kinda like a "teeter-totter" effect. Below the peak torque RPM there will be a gain in torque; above the peak torque RPM there will be a corresponding loss of torque, due in large part to moving the intake valve closing event.
Last edited by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on Sun Mar 19, 2017 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Wesman07
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #3 by Wesman07 » Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:56 am

Exactly, it's a give/ take relationship. You will find that principal applys to most thing....engines, suspensions.... women. Also note that it's 4* and the crank, so the cam will only see + or - 2*.

I am about to do the same to my truck, but I doubt I will see much of a difference. Strength is the main reason.
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

deere114
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #4 by deere114 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:16 am

Keep in mind the efi engines have 4 degrees retard built into the gears. So you can advance it to straight up, or 4 degrees advance which would be 8 degrees advance relative to where the cam is now. In my buddies truck I installed it 4 degrees advance. He had 2.73 rear gears and you had to slip the clutch pretty bad on a hill from a dead stop. Now it has much more torque off idle and starts off way better. Would probably get better mileage if my friend would learn to drive like a civil person.... It lost some power from 2800 rpm on up. Like Ftf said. Your just shifting the powerband down some. My brothers truck has the cam straight up, and seems to be the best compromise, but he has 3.50 rear gears and granny 4 speed. If you have 3.31-3.73's I'd install it straight up. 2.73-3.08 I'd go 4 degrees advance. Assuming stock tired of course

Wesman07
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #5 by Wesman07 » Tue Mar 21, 2017 4:14 pm

deere114 wrote:Keep in mind the efi engines have 4 degrees retard built into the gears. So you can advance it to straight up, or 4 degrees advance which would be 8 degrees advance relative to where the cam is now. In my buddies truck I installed it 4 degrees advance. He had 2.73 rear gears and you had to slip the clutch pretty bad on a hill from a dead stop. Now it has much more torque off idle and starts off way better. Would probably get better mileage if my friend would learn to drive like a civil person.... It lost some power from 2800 rpm on up. Like Ftf said. Your just shifting the powerband down some. My brothers truck has the cam straight up, and seems to be the best compromise, but he has 3.50 rear gears and granny 4 speed. If you have 3.31-3.73's I'd install it straight up. 2.73-3.08 I'd go 4 degrees advance. Assuming stock tired of course


Did you actually degree where the cam was before and after the cloyes gear set?
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Wesman07
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #6 by Wesman07 » Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:57 am

So I installed the cloyes set in the advanced position, before I drove from Philly to West Virginia. There was a significant increase in power below peak torque (1,800-2,200). The loss in power above peak torque was unnoticeable. I would assume this is because the cloyes set advances 4* at the crank, which they say is actually only 2* at the cam... correct? The motor still reved out to 3,800 rpm as it did before.

On the big climbs the motor either held at 2,300 or needed a down shift and was quite happy at 3,200
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #7 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:16 am

Wesman07 wrote:S... they say is actually only 2* at the cam... correct?

yes - 720 degrees of crank rotation = one complete cycling (360 degrees) of the cam.
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guhfluh
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Re: Timing Gear Advance?

Post #8 by guhfluh » Fri Apr 28, 2017 11:43 am

When people start talking in cam degrees, it messes everybody's thinking up. Crank degrees is what you're really after and should be referring to. 4* in engine revolution is what you advanced it, don't worry about cam degrees.

Now, if you changed the cam gears and advanced the cam, you needed to reset your spark timing. Without doing so, it would have advanced also, since the distributor is cam driven. It would have advanced 4* also.
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