Street 300 L6 Motor

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rpatt1
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #101 by rpatt1 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:36 am

old28racer - for KB315 piston to deck height, I still never heard anyone comment on propensity to detonate due to piston crowns below deck with fairly high dynamic CR (for pump gas). I am sure i read about that issue over on the small six forum for the 250. If our BB6 have less propensity to detonate under the same sitiuation, i have not heard it explained?

For street engine on pump gas with the KB315 - I am thinking to leave the block deck stock - so pmuller told us that gets roughly 10.22:1 with a 76cc chamber. At zero deck like your racer friend I see about 10.75:1 which seems optimistic for pump gas regardless of the cam?

pmuller also suggested a cam that favors intake over exhaust to help lower dynamic CR, but then the example/suggested cam is not that style as it too favor exhaust with more duration and lift than intake? Crower 19205 cam, .509”/.517”, 220/222, 284/290, 110deg.

I trust pmullers knowledge and figure it must be a late closing intake valve event regardless on that grind which keep the dynamic CR low.

Thanks,
Rusty

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #102 by pmuller9 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 10:38 am

Rusty
For the Ford inline sixes, the larger bore engines have more propensity to detonate under the same situation.
A smaller bore has less distance from the ignition point to the bore wall for the flame front to travel therefore having less chance for a second ignition flame front to start. There are other considerations that involve rod ratio and bore to stroke relationships.
The small block Ford sixes can get away with higher DCRs than the big block 240/300 six

The closer the piston gets to the head surface, the higher the squish velocity that creates turbulence to minimize detonation.
The relationship between that distance and squish velocity is somewhat exponential so it is best to close that gap.
Zero deck with an .039" head gasket gets you close enough with sufficient piston to head clearance.

For the 300 six with a cast iron head, a 7.5 DCR is a good place to be for most pump applications.
That puts a 10:1 compression limit for most larger street cams with 280ish advertised durations.

The 300 six works well with single pattern cams as the exhaust port flow is good compared to the intake port flow.
A cam that favors intake over exhaust along with a wider LSA is for turbocharger application especially when using a log type exhaust manifold.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #103 by old28racer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 12:16 pm

pmuller9 -- Thanks for the information to Rusty question. I learn more each day on this 300 motor build.

I am still thinking of going this way for my mild street motor build. 4.030 Hyper D dish piston with 22cc dish volume, 69 cc head volume with 1.94 / 1.60 valves, .038 compressed gasket and a -0- deck that should work out to about 9.4 CR. I think it will run fine on 89 pump gas.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #104 by rpatt1 » Fri Nov 03, 2017 5:33 pm

old28racer - how are you getting to a 69 cc chamber? Are you milling a 300 76 cc chamber head down or opening up a 240 heads chamber?

pmuller9 - thanks for all the info.

Thanks,
Rusty

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #105 by old28racer » Fri Nov 03, 2017 7:04 pm

Ya I got my used Offy dual port intake and tall Clifford valve cover a few days ago, already had the 4100 1.08 carb and I had to bolt them on just to see what it might look like.

https://ibb.co/n86G2b
https://image.ibb.co/jGrc8G/300_Motor_20.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/fVZx8G/300_Motor_21.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/btZavw/300_Motor_22.jpg
https://image.ibb.co/iuYqTG/300_Motor_23.jpg
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #106 by old28racer » Sat Nov 04, 2017 5:23 pm

rpatt1 -- My head is a 1992 EFI 300 heart shape head that is 69cc chamber. If you use them on a stock or mild build that will have stock size valves they work OK with a port/polish job. But when you increase the valve size to 1.94/1.60 you have to remove some of the wall around the valve as it shrouds the valves. If I did not already have this like new head I would have used a 240 68cc head or an early 300 68cc head. Both would have taken the 1.94/1.60 valves a lot easier with less machine work. Tom
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #107 by old28racer » Sat Nov 04, 2017 11:27 pm

Need to refresh my memory on how many .000" do you mill a head to change the chamber one cc?

I have a 1992 EFI 300 head with heart shape chambers that is 69cc currently. I want to reduce it to 61cc. Will this head be OK with this cut?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #108 by pmuller9 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:23 pm

.008" per cc

What pistons and compression ratio have you decided on?

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #109 by old28racer » Thu Nov 09, 2017 10:28 am

pmuller9 --- Going to go with the Hyper D dish chamber cast pistons, with -0- deck (mill off .032"), with my 69cc heads that would give me 9.3 CR. I would like to take .024" off the head and get close to 9.5 CR. Head will be mild P&P with 1.94/1.60 valves. Still think I will go with the RV cam for this first build with 7/16 studs & my BBC 1.7 rockers.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #110 by pmuller9 » Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:19 pm

I wouldn't take any off the head to push the compression ratio any higher than 9.3 with an RV cam.
Which cam are you looking at?

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #111 by old28racer » Fri Nov 10, 2017 6:39 pm

pmuller9 --- I added the cam spec's yesterday but I don't see it in my post, so sending again.

Falcon Performance
Elgin RV Cam
Adv Duration --- 280/290
Dur @ .050 --- 204/214
Lift --- .451/.475 w/1.6
Lift --- .477/.503 w/1.7
Centerline --- 106/114
Power Range -- 1200 - 4700
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #112 by old28racer » Wed Nov 15, 2017 7:19 pm

OK guys, as this motor is just a mild street ride I would like to install Chevy 1.84" intake & 1.60" exhaust valves. I only want to install OEM steel valves (no stainless on this build). I have found the OEM steel 1.84" intakes with .341" stems, single groove lock, OAL from
4.903 - 4.913".

I am unable to find any Chevy exhaust 1.60" in OEM steel. I can find SS in 1.6 all day. They need to have the .341" stems and have OAL of
4.903 - 4.920" & single groove luck.

Any idea's out there?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #113 by old28racer » Sat Nov 18, 2017 1:13 pm

Found Chevy 1.6 exhaust at Summit and they are on their way.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #114 by old28racer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:59 pm

Getting ready to purchase new cam and crankshaft gear set. Want to make sure I get a good one, American Made :mrgreen:

Cloyes 8-1014 Performance Set is said to have an aluminum cam gear and a steel 3 key crankshaft gear (st up / -4* / +4*.

Is this correct? Is it a good unit?

Also, does a RV cam have to be set at 4 degree retard same as the stock 300 camshaft was?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #115 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:23 pm

I've used Cloyes for years. Good folks. The one time I had a problem with their stuff they helped me resolve it.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #116 by old28racer » Sat Dec 02, 2017 10:47 pm

Thanks for the reply FTF.

Am I correct that if you advance the cam 4 degrees you build more torque at lower RPM, if you retard it 4 degrees you build more torque at higher RPM. So if this motor will end up in a early 50's F-100 pickup that will be for a daily driver with no towing can I install the cam straight up?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #117 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Dec 03, 2017 8:50 am

yes
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #118 by old28racer » Sun Dec 03, 2017 12:53 pm

FTF -- Thanks, that is what I will do.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #119 by old28racer » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:01 am

After checking on the HD exhaust that are out there on the market it looks like $275 is the going rate. Way to much for this build. I think I will look at using a pair EFI exhaust. "fordman 75" over on the Ford Truck site sent me a couple of pictures of a set that he had ported and opened up the discharge end.

Also do you think porting a standard one piece carb exhaust manifold would work out close to a stock EFI dual manifold in the flow department? I really like the look of the single log manifold.

Does anyone out there have a set of EFI exhaust manifolds that will fit my 1992 EFI head you would sell?
What about a stock 300 one piece unit?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #120 by Fordman75 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 2:54 am

I did the porting on the EFI manifold. I do all my own porting. I can't afford to pay anyone to do it.

A log manifold isn't ever going to flow as good as a header or the efi manifolds which are basically cast iron shorty headers. But if you like the carb manifold. Then open it up as much as you can. You may loose some performance but sometimes you have to decide if you prefer looks or performance. There is always a compromise some where.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #121 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 4:02 pm

old28racer wrote:Also do you think porting a standard one piece carb exhaust manifold would work out close to a stock EFI dual manifold in the flow department? I really like the look of the single log manifold.

Does anyone out there have a set of EFI exhaust manifolds that will fit my 1992 EFI head you would sell?
What about a stock 300 one piece unit?


Hi Old28racer, yes I think you can get decent street performance out of the stock 240 / 300 log exhaust manifold and a even little more with some good porting. On most all of my 240 & 300 street six'es I ran the log manafolds the exception was on my 1994 F150 pickup and that came with the EFI's.

Would it match the performance of the EFI manifold's? Probably not unless you split them and added a second outlet aka like they used to have to do on the old six'es back in the 1950's. Still if you have the stock log exhaust and the budget money is tight use it for now, you can always easily swap on a set of EFI manafolds or even go with a set of headers when the funds are there. Good luck :thumbup: :nod: Edited
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #122 by old28racer » Mon Jan 08, 2018 11:41 pm

fordman75 -- As I said over on the truck site I think a set of EFI exhaust is the way to go.

bubba22349 -- As you may have read over on the truck site I think that the EFI manifolds will work for now and later maybe a HD log manifold will be in the works. I really don't want to run headers and I know I will give up a little performance.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #123 by old28racer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 5:38 pm

Been a little slow working on the 300 build. Been trying to get all the parts on hand so I can move forward with the project. Did pick up a set of reconditioned EFI Exhaust Manifolds and mocked up intake & exhaust to check clearance and fit with the Offy Dual Port & EFI mounting ears. The ears are a good match.

Only problem was I had to grind out a notch in the alternator mounting bracket. The bracket is from a 240 motor. No big deal, easy fix.

Installing new 3/8x16x2" grade 8 studs with hand ground thick grade 8 washers. I am sure some would call it over kill, but I feel better about the sealing & no broken studs when trouqing stuff in place.

Picture of motor mock up.

https://ibb.co/fRE6zG
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #124 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 19, 2018 9:17 pm

:beer: that looks great old28racer! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #125 by old28racer » Fri Jan 19, 2018 11:25 pm

bubba22349 -- Thanks for nice comment. Sometime you just need to see a few parts hung on the motor to help you move forward. Hope to get my 92 EFI head to machine shop to install the 1.84/1.60 sbc valves and cut down & tap my pedistales for 7/16 screw in studs. The 1.84 intake valves fit the EFI chamber much better than 1.94 valve unless you want to do a lot of chamber milling. As I am only going to running run a Autolite 1.08 4 barrel on a Offy DP intake along with an RV cam & 1.7 bbc roller rockers I think the 1.84 intake will work out fine.

A good buddy on this site tac welded a set of sbc adjustable pushrod guide plates for the EFI heads that have round holes and require guide plates. I will be running some Smith Brothers hardened .085 wall 5/16" pushrods. Using Comp Cam 903 valve springs with a 112# seat & 245# open pressure.

https://ibb.co/gB2zmw
https://ibb.co/gB2zmw
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #126 by old28racer » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Meant to post picture of the sbc adjustable guide plates that have been tac welded in a jig that was built for 240/300 head & pushrod layout. I will be running 7/16 screw in studs, 7/16 x 5/16 guide plates, You can also get the comp Cam Ajustable guide plates in
7/16 x 3/8 if you are going to run larger 3/8 pushrods.

https://image.ibb.co/g9YASG/300_Motor_29.jpg
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #127 by bubba22349 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 9:53 pm

:beer: that should be a real good combo of parts old 28racer, best of luck on the build :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #128 by old28racer » Sun Jan 21, 2018 10:15 pm

Thanks bubba22349
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #129 by old28racer » Mon Jan 22, 2018 3:26 pm

Having a little problem with finding a 164 tooth "neutral" balanced flex plate that will fit my 300 4.9L motor build. It needs to have standard crank 6 hole mounting. It will go in a C4 bellhousing. All the sbf & 351 flex plates are external balance.

What year car & model might I find the right 164 neutral balance unit that will bolt up to my 300 crank?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #130 by Fordman75 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:48 pm

If you want a racing one here's a few.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tci-529625/overview/make/ford TCI for $140.00.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/pma-pax30210/overview/make/ford PA for $145.00.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ati-915707/overview/make/ford ATI for $194.00.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/ati-915727/overview/make/ford ATI for $250.00



Otherwise you should be able to get a stock replacement for any 70's Ford truck with a 300 and automatic at any parts place.

Rockauto.com has

ATP part # Z134 for around $30.00
or
PIONEER part # FRA206 for just over $42.00.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #131 by old28racer » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:44 pm

Fordman75 --- Thanks for the list, I will need an SFI flexplate when I build my second 300 motor for a Vintage Altered Drag Race Roadster.

After I posted the request I searched a little more and found the ATP Z134 32.97 and the ATP Z198 29.97 both for a 300 automatic neutral balance at Summit. At this point I just want an every day flexplate that will work with a C4 bellhousing so I can mount my starter to run the motor on it's test stand. Ya I get free shipping from Summit but you got to drop $99+. I have ordered a few parts for the rebuild from Rock Auto and there shipping is real fair.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #132 by Fordman75 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:38 am

old28racer wrote:Fordman75 --- Thanks for the list, I will need an SFI flexplate when I build my second 300 motor for a Vintage Altered Drag Race Roadster.

After I posted the request I searched a little more and found the ATP Z134 32.97 and the ATP Z198 29.97 both for a 300 automatic neutral balance at Summit. At this point I just want an every day flexplate that will work with a C4 bellhousing so I can mount my starter to run the motor on it's test stand. Ya I get free shipping from Summit but you got to drop $99+. I have ordered a few parts for the rebuild from Rock Auto and there shipping is real fair.


No problem.

Rock Auto is great unless you are ordering multiple parts. They like to charge you separate shipping charges per part. And if you try to change your cart around to get all the parts from the same warehouse they keep changing them around. It's a big scam to charge you the extra shipping charges. But I do order a lot of parts from them.
Ted

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300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #133 by old28racer » Tue Jan 23, 2018 1:46 pm

Fordman75 -- I agree. Most of my stuff has come from summit with free shipping. :D

Bad part is that I drop $100 bucks plus each time. :nod:
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #134 by Fordman75 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:49 pm

Yea I kind of divide up my performance parts purchases between Summit and Jeg's. What sucks is when you just need a little $10.00 item. :roll: When that happens the price doubles. :bang: But usually it's hard not to spend over $100. :D
Ted

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300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #135 by old28racer » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:31 pm

Ya you got it straight.

I try to use my local NAPA store for the small parts.

On and off (mostly on) I have been running front motor nostalgia dragsters and altered sence 1975. Sold our last car in 2013. With what I have dropped at Summit & Jegs over the year's I should be part owner. :mrgreen:

Picture of my last altered, all glass 29 roadster with a 501" BBC :twisted: injected on alcohol. Ran NE-2 class out west on a 8.50 index and off the index a best of 8.03 @ 161mph. Lots of fun, wish I still had it.

https://ibb.co/gbgAGw
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #136 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Jan 24, 2018 6:08 pm

pretty car
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #137 by old28racer » Wed Jan 24, 2018 7:59 pm

Thanks, chassis was a older alcohol funny car, It had a stright front end with a MW 4 bar rear end setup. As I said before, wish I still had it. It would have been a real nice car to drop an injected alcohol 300 with a glide in.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #138 by old28racer » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:51 pm

Just a quick question, Do any of the 300 EFI head bolts need sealer just to protect if you get a small leak from water jacket to head bolt hole?

Having Machine Shop install 1.84 / 1.60 Chevy valves this week along with drilling / taping the pedistals for 7/16 screw in studs.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #139 by pmuller9 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 10:10 pm

old28racer wrote:Just a quick question, Do any of the 300 EFI head bolts need sealer just to protect if you get a small leak from water jacket to head bolt hole?

Not if you spot face the bolt holes and use the torque lube under the bolt heads
https://www.dropbox.com/s/iwhk9rlydhluu ... 4.JPG?dl=0
Someone here is going to suggest that if you see a leak that it would be a good idea to fix it.

The screw in studs threaded holes go into the water jacket so the stud threads will need sealer.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #140 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:58 pm

I thought they are all blind.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #141 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:08 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I thought they are all blind.

Maybe the stock threaded holes are but when we drilled and tapped for 7/16 threaded holes that are deep enough for the studs in the 1985 pedestal mount head we were into the water jacket.
Just going by what my experience was.

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #142 by old28racer » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:43 pm

No problem, I will seal all the studs just to make sure. Thanks guys.
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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #143 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Feb 27, 2018 1:28 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I thought they are all blind.

By "all" I was thinking of the head bolt holes into the block face. The rocker arm stud holes for the pressed in studs are indeed drilled into the water passages and will need sealer - Permatex, Loctite or your favorite equivalent.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #144 by old28racer » Wed Feb 28, 2018 11:40 pm

For all Chevy head bolts that went into water jackets I have always used Permatex RTV Sillicone Clear Sealer. Will this do the job for the 7/16 screw in studs or is there something better that I should try?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #145 by WorldChampGramp » Tue Mar 06, 2018 5:58 pm

old28racer wrote:For all Chevy head bolts that went into water jackets I have always used Permatex RTV Sillicone Clear Sealer. Will this do the job for the 7/16 screw in studs or is there something better that I should try?


My Personal choice is the light grey colored Permatex used in high torque applications, Item # 82194 3.5 OZ tube. BTY want to buy it the inexpensive way? Visit your local WalMart they usually carry the grey stuff, priced right and if you really want to help yourself with any RTV in a roll up tube find and buy "The Tube Grip" made by Valco Cincinnati (513)-788-6550. 'Buy it you'll like it' GRAMPS

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #146 by old28racer » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:58 pm

Well guys, I got some bad news from my machine shop today. He was maging my 1992 EFI head for cracks and found two in the top valve spring area. One about 2" long between two screw in plugs and another 1" long in the spring area. He pressure tested the head and both cracks are into water jacket area. :bang:

I am starting my hunt for a good re-buildable 240/300 head out my way in the Southern CA area.
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #147 by woodbutcher » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:07 pm

:( Oh now.Ain`t that sweet.Just makes ya want to chew up railroad spikes and spit out carpet tacks.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #148 by old28racer » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:46 pm

Anyone on the site have a good bare re-buildable 300 76cc or EFI 300 69cc head they might sell?

Were are you located?
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #149 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:09 pm

I'd like to help but shipping costs to CA would kill the deal.
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Re: Street 300 L6 Motor

Post #150 by old28racer » Sun Mar 11, 2018 2:14 pm

thanks FTF, your right on shipping cost. I sent a one Buick nailhead head to a guy in Florida and the shipping was $65 and that was one V8 head not a 6 cylinder hunk of iron.
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