Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

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TurboBronco
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Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #1 by TurboBronco » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:22 am

I am rebuilding a 92 EFI straight six. I have ordered the Cloyes adjustable timing set. I've read many articles on it's installation, but I haven't found the definitive information I am looking for. Specifically, how to get the cam installed "straight up". The Cloyes timing set comes with 3 keyways - 4 degrees retarded, 0 degrees and 4 degrees advanced.

Everyone agrees that the inline sixes were setup to run 4 degrees retarded timing. I've read conflicting information that the 4 degrees of retard were:
1. Built into the cam
2. Built into the timing gears.

If built into the cam, it seems that I would want to install the gears with 4 degrees of advance to "zero out" the 4 degrees of retard.

If built into the timing gears (fiber cam gear, metal crank gear), then installing the Cloyes gears straight up would seem the way to go.

I can degree the cam, but taking the gears on and off to test is something I'd like to avoid and it seems logical that someone on this forum has already done this.

By the way, this engine is going into an 82 F350 with an NP305 4 speed, 4x4 and 35" tires. I may tow stuff occasionally, but most of my driving will be around town with a max of 60-65 on the highway. I'm much more interested in torque and drive-ability than high rpm (top end) performance.

Any help anyone can provide is greatly appreciated!
1985 Ford F250 2WD, Bone Stock 300, T18 Four Speed, OEM intake, OEM Exhaust Manifold, Autolite Single Barrel Carb; 2.5" Exhaust from firewall back, Project in Progress!!

Wesman07
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #2 by Wesman07 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 7:14 am

I am 99% positive that installing the cloyes set in the advanced position is "straight up". I say 99% because I did not measure it myself.

I have done this to my truck. It is a nice change. I do find that I have to run 89-91 octane when loaded. Just keep and ear out.
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86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

TurboBronco
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #3 by TurboBronco » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:35 am

Thank you Wesman07, that's the direction I am leaning towards. :thumbup:

Any other opinions\experiences from others who have installed the Cloyes gearset?
1985 Ford F250 2WD, Bone Stock 300, T18 Four Speed, OEM intake, OEM Exhaust Manifold, Autolite Single Barrel Carb; 2.5" Exhaust from firewall back, Project in Progress!!

Wesman07
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #4 by Wesman07 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:54 am

What that will do is tilt your torque curve like a "see saw". Below peak will increase, peak will stay the same and it will fall off faster after peak.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

wallen7
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #5 by wallen7 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:40 pm

The best and only definitive way I know is to build the short block with the cam and lifters installed on #1 cylinder, put a degree wheel on and actually check the cams position. On the Cloyes set all you will have to do to change position is pull the crank gear back off.

CNC-Dude
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #6 by CNC-Dude » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:47 pm

Correct, as wallen7 suggested! But to also know if where you end up is better than where you started, you should also verify where your cam timing events are with the fiber gear set before you make any changes. Otherwise, you are only making assumptions you have made improvements, and if so, by how much.
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Lazy JW
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #7 by Lazy JW » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:16 pm

Yes, I did this some years back with the Cloyes adjustable timing set. The 4° advanced position only gets it to straight up, not 4° advanced as one might believe. If you were to use the 4° retarded position it will actually be 8°retarded.

That's what it did on my stock cam. YMMV, and as for aftermarket cams, all bets are off. Best break out the degree wheel :nod:
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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TurboBronco
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #8 by TurboBronco » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:01 pm

Thanks Joe. I'm planning on installing the gear set on the stock cam.

Now, just have to find an adjustable set...Cloyes has discontinued the 8-1014.

Brad
1985 Ford F250 2WD, Bone Stock 300, T18 Four Speed, OEM intake, OEM Exhaust Manifold, Autolite Single Barrel Carb; 2.5" Exhaust from firewall back, Project in Progress!!

pmuller9
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 5:56 pm

The Mr Gasket 987G offset cam key gives you 4 degrees and the 988G gives you 8 degrees when used with the cam gear.
I used the 987G on my last build.

MushCreek
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #10 by MushCreek » Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:02 am

When installing an offset key, which way is advanced- clockwise, or counterclockwise? I'd hate to get it backwards and have to pull the gear after the fact.

wallen7
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Re: Need a definitive answer on Cloyes adjustable timing set installation

Post #11 by wallen7 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:10 am

When you look straight at the cam ccw is advanced position. Remember that with the gear drive that the cam turns the opposite direction.

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