Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

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Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #1 by WorldChampGramp » Sun Feb 25, 2018 8:03 am

I am in the process of working on a permanent solution to the maximum flow capability of the 300 “U-Head” with verified flow bench and Dynamometer data to quantify my results. The finished product will take 6-8 more months of due diligence to complete and results will be available on this forum. Preliminary flow data indicate a max flow intake port potential will be in the 250 Cfm range at .650 lift & 28 inches of H2O depression. Stay tuned, more to come >>> eventually.... plans include a bolt on 350 cfm cross flow aluminum head priced right for all the dedicated Ford Six audience and those not yet convinced that “Six-in-a-row is the way to GO”. Bruce :nod: :thumbup:

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #2 by Dr Jay » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:33 am

Oh WOW!!!!!!
Blessings,
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #3 by CNC-Dude » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:36 am

Forum member SIX GUN has a production cylinder headed ported by the late Jerry Arnold head on his car in the video below that flows well beyond the 250 CFM range in the 260-270 CFM range. His car has run 10.90 quarter mile times so far. Using more modern and current head porting techniques they can even exceed that


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97ThpHc ... e=youtu.be
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #4 by jason832 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 12:42 pm

If someone finally made an aluminium head for the 300 it would sell quite well. I'd be ordering one or two once I see it.

I'd also like to see someone maximize the cfm of the factory heads and post a guide on how to port them.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #5 by pmuller9 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:03 pm

jason832 wrote:I'd also like to see someone maximize the cfm of the factory heads and post a guide on how to port them.


The goal is to be able to provide a CNC ported big valve head based on new iron castings that are already availble and have thicker decks and more material overall than what you find in used factory heads that are 22+ years old.
They will include hard valve seats for both the intake and exhaust.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #6 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:03 pm

Shaft mounted rocker arms would help take advantage of more CFM.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 9:56 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Shaft mounted rocker arms would help take advantage of more CFM.

There are off the shelf shaft mount roller rockers available for the proposed 300 cross-flow aluminum head.
They come as adjustable or non-adjustable.

The possibilty for shaft mount for the iron "U" head will be investigated.
An off the shelf adaption is preferred for cost reasons.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #8 by Wesman07 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 5:30 am

That’s one small step for man. One giant leap for mankind.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #9 by arse_sidewards » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:25 am

On an engine with all the rockers pivoting inline you can build a head that could use either. If you planned on mounting all the shaft rockers on a common shaft there's no reason that the mounting bosses in the head would have to conflict with rockers that use the stock style pivot.

You would need to put extra material for pedestals between the valve pairs so that you have something to bolt a single long shaft down to (orange). As long as the height of the shaft mound boss is no taller than the stud mount boss you shouldn't have to worry about interference between the two.

You could also tie it in to the stud mount bosses (blue). It's not like aluminum rocker arm mounts wouldn't benefit from the extra support of being tied to each other and tied to a rib. If you're just running the head under a mill to set the height of the rocker arm bosses it wouldn't even add an extra operation.

Even just a thick rough cast stiffening rib between each pair of head bolts would work. Those of us who are so inclined can mill as needed and drill/tap for shaft mount pedestals. It's not like it's a hard feature to cast or the production quantity will be enough for that mount of extra material to be a problem.

It seems like with careful this could be a win for the guys who want shaft mounted rockers without losing compatibility with stock stuff.

This seems like a really cool project.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #10 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:11 pm

You'll need an oil supply to the fulcrums.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #11 by arse_sidewards » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:13 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:You'll need an oil supply to the fulcrums.


I was assuming roller bearing.
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-exhaust leak that sounds like a bucket of playing cards being fed into the radiator fan
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #12 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 8:54 pm

This is what the competition rocker arm assembly for both the "U" head and the crossflow head would look like.
The cradle bolts down to the stud bosses and the rockers bolt into the cradle.
You shim under the cradle for the correct rocker arm to valve geometry.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/my55ki5j1wog6 ... e.jpg?dl=0

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #13 by arse_sidewards » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:03 pm

pmuller9 wrote:This is what the competition rocker arm assembly for both the "U" head and the crossflow head would look like.
The cradle bolts down to the stud bosses and the rockers bolt into the cradle.
You shim under the cradle for the correct rocker arm to valve geometry.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/my55ki5j1wog6 ... e.jpg?dl=0


Offered in ratios of?

What's the shaft diameter through the arms?

I was planning on doing exactly what you've pictured using 2:1 Jesel arms.

If you've got something production ready that can work with arms that take a 3/8" (IIRC) shaft then (as much as it pains me to not be a cheapskate) I might have to save the effort and buy that.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft EEC-IV
-460 rocker arm Guinea Pig: 3rd world quality "file to fit" machining

-exhaust leak that sounds like a bucket of playing cards being fed into the radiator fan
-66" leafs ('11 Superduty), extended radius arms.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #14 by Wesman07 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 10:42 pm

Is there a ball park price? Pics of a prototype?
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 26, 2018 11:32 pm

Bruce is the one spearheading this project as he needs these heads before I do and since I'm new to my area He has resourses already established that I don't yet.

The goal is to offer fully ported, big valve, cast iron "U" heads to everyone using new cores that have much more material and deck thickness than previous heads. The bare cores are presently having the intake and exhaust seats installed in preparation for the flow bench before and after port work. Many variations of port configurations will be tested.
Pedestal mount and stud mount rockers available as always. Competition shaft mount rockers in the near future.
Progress will be posted. Way to early for things like prices.

The only report on the crossflow head is that work has begun on the feasibility model.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #16 by pmuller9 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:18 am

arse_sidewards wrote:Offered in ratios of?
What's the shaft diameter through the arms?
I was planning on doing exactly what you've pictured using 2:1 Jesel arms.
If you've got something production ready that can work with arms that take a 3/8" (IIRC) shaft then (as much as it pains me to not be a cheapskate) I might have to save the effort and buy that.


The rockers shafts are 5/8". The rockers shown are a 1.7 ratio but higher ratios are available in .050 increments.
The assembly in the pic has the correct pair spacing but the rockers are too short for the 300 six "U" head.
The rocker fulcrum length needs to be 1.650".
T & D has the pieces for the correct combination and if you want a one piece cradle you will need to make one as you already know.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #17 by worken2much » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:48 am

Gramps,

I applaud your efforts. Keep up the good work.

As has been noted on the forum in the past, the cylinder head is the first road block that you bang into when wanting to make big Hp numbers with the 300. Once that has been dealt with, the block & crank soon follow. Any plans there?

Thanks,
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #18 by CNC-Dude » Tue Feb 27, 2018 9:57 am

That's one reason why I haven't pushed ahead to create one based on my Duggan 12 Port Chevy head patterns. For 99% of any Ford hotrodder or racer, the stock cylinder head that is ported will provide all the power needed for what the rest of the components can handle. For the remaining 1% or less of those needing a better head, they will simply get the Alan Johnson billet head. So that really doesn't leave any market share for an aluminum head of this type and why nobody has already made one.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #19 by arse_sidewards » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:18 am

pmuller9 wrote:The rockers shafts are 5/8". The rockers shown are a 1.7 ratio but higher ratios are available in .050 increments.
The assembly in the pic has the correct pair spacing but the rockers are too short for the 300 six "U" head.
The rocker fulcrum length needs to be 1.650".
T & D has the pieces for the correct combination and if you want a one piece cradle you will need to make one as you already know.


The Jesel ones I have use a 3/8 OD shaft for the portion that goes through the arm with larger ends with bolt holes pressed on that (I don't recall exactly what the OD is).

I disregarded fulcrum length when buying the Jesel rockers because I was planning on making my own cradle and just accounting for it there.

I'll have to measure my rockers and look through the T&D catalog. If I'm lucky I might be able to use an of the shelf stand but I doubt it. It's not like it's a terribly difficult part to make, it's just another project on the infinite list.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft EEC-IV
-460 rocker arm Guinea Pig: 3rd world quality "file to fit" machining

-exhaust leak that sounds like a bucket of playing cards being fed into the radiator fan
-66" leafs ('11 Superduty), extended radius arms.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #20 by pmuller9 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 12:05 pm

arse_sidewards wrote:I disregarded fulcrum length when buying the Jesel rockers because I was planning on making my own cradle and just accounting for it there.

I'll have to measure my rockers and look through the T&D catalog. If I'm lucky I might be able to use an of the shelf stand but I doubt it. It's not like it's a terribly difficult part to make, it's just another project on the infinite list.


The problem with a short fulcrum length with a high ratio rocker is that both the head and the block would have to be clearanced for the pushrods.
The other thing to consider is the shorter fulcrum length rocker tip travels further across the valve tip than the longer rocker.

There are 1.650" fulcrum length rockers for the BBC, BBF and Cleveland Ford.
You can buy the short 3 bolt shafts separately, add rockers of your choice and make your own cradle in your spare time. :lol:

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #21 by pmuller9 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 3:33 pm

The only reasonably available performance intake manifold for the "U" head is the Offenhauser single 4 bbl "C" manifold.
What other intake manifold types would everyone like to see made available for both the "U" head and the crossflow head?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #22 by Fordman75 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:01 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The only reasonably available performance intake manifold for the "U" head is the Offenhauser single 4 bbl "C" manifold.
What other intake manifold types would everyone like to see made available for both the "U" head and the crossflow head?


Dual and triple carb intakes. I like Clifford performance's dual carb intake. I don't like dealing with Clifford Performance. Two or three carbs is much easier to get even air fuel mixture to all the cylinders.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #23 by Wesman07 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:37 pm

Something with injector bungs and fits a 60ish mm throttle body.... like the Jeep 4.0 throttle body
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #24 by WorldChampGramp » Tue Feb 27, 2018 7:47 pm

"Gramps" responding and thanks for that online screen handle courtesy of Worken2Much. My goal is to offer finished products that are superior in quality and performance and priced within reason for the Ford Six world which is vastly underestimated if you are a number cruncher. Why does this 77 y. o. Grampa want to embark on such an energetic time consuming project when I could be on the golf course or trying to reclaim some of my youth by extra trips to the fitness center? Well as the saying goes “There’s no fool like an old fool” BUT I am motivated, thinking overtime and delightfully surprised and encouraged by the Forum Support from the likes of PMuller9 and others. Please keep this thread going, as a lot of you have valuable input that will obviously effect the outcome in a positive manor. As Paul Muller stated the first order of business is to assist building a modified street 300 using the many suggestions I have been able to gather from FTF, Paul and others, by flowing the stock 240 head , vs the stock 300 EFI head vs the new unmodified “out of the box” aftermarket (offshore cast head) purportedly having several improvements e.g thicker deck face, improved port flow etc. Then porting the new head for the modestly modified Customer 300 which will have popular performance fixes e.g. valve train, EFI headers,4 bbl Offenhauser s.p./ 9.5-9.75 static CR/ all with the purpose of being a torque producing, BUDGET WORTHY, easily duplicated 275-300 HP range reliable engine. Mundane you say, maybe so but this completed customer engine will be dialed in on the Superflow Industrial Dyno at a no cost (on my part) trade off investment of my time and some personal parts contributions “for the cause”. Sequentially, I will be completing the all-out u-head Preparation H 2 engine build that will have substantial amount of flow bench work on the LAST ONE of my own fully ported ORIGINAL Preparation H 240 heads that was shelved since 1975 by my long term buddy John Russell of Mad Maverick fame in his garage Russell’s Automotive, Lebanon Ohio. The Second New Casting 300 U-flow No-Air head will be ported to the max, flowed in stages to include removable velocity vanes, sectioned to see what mistakes have been made or indications of where additional improvements in flow were missed, corrections made and final desirable maxed out intake and exhaust port configurations copied and made duplicable in the 4-axis machining center located on the premises. The final max effort New U-Head will be made available to the general public probably bearing my name but undecided as to whether the finished product will be offed complete with valves, springs etc as a bolt on or possibly naked for the individual personalization of valve choice, size, et al. Finally “If the Good Lord is willing and the creek doesn’t rise” Phase III will be the long overdue bolt on 350 CFM aluminum cross flow head. You might say this last version will be “Sizemorized” LOL.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #25 by CNC-Dude » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:25 pm

Kudos on the ambition and desire. One piece of advice that would carry this to a much higher plateau faster and more economically than you can take it yourself. I would saw a single cylinder segment off of a cylinder head and send it to a truly top shelf cylinder head porter that is up to date on all the current tricks of the trade such as Larry Meaux or Glen Self, or even Wilson Manifolds there in Florida. Tell them the parameters of port flow you wish to stay in and other important criteria and what you'd like the ports to flow and let them create the sample ports for you. Then you can have those ports digitized and create your head from that. This would be the best foundation you could ever start with and the best money you could ever spend to get started. Take advantage of the pros that do this professionally and do it everyday and are current on technology and techniques that are constantly changing like cellphone technology.

Larry Meaux is probably the most top shelf and best head porter of all times. He routinely takes fully CNC ported heads done by the most top shelf CNC porters and engine builders and can extract an additional 80-100 HP out of them using his finely honed skills and talent. Just saying I think this would be an excellent strategy and game plan to start off with.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #26 by Rusty_Old_F250 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:57 pm

Now this is interesting! I'll be following what you guys are up to.

Question, are you using the heads cast with the EFI style chamber or the earlier open chamber?

I'm about the purchase a new cast efi one and i'm interested to see if they're actually thicker like they say they are

Sam

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #27 by pmuller9 » Tue Feb 27, 2018 11:29 pm

Sam
It is the bare head with the EFI style chamber.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #28 by WorldChampGramp » Wed Feb 28, 2018 2:03 am

Thanks for the encouragement and suggestions. Initial flow work on all the U-heads will be limited to my reworked 240 that is ready to run now but I want to maximize the flow without any dreaded break-thru’s. The finished product of this 1972 casting will be for the sole purpose of recreating the original Preparation H powerplant for shipment to Detroit where it will be installed in near stock appearing full sheet metal Maverick PH clone. My former partner’s two sons will be completing the task without any of my assistance other than opinions on powertrain etc. The only difference engine wise from the Original basic PH content will be 3-2bbl Holley carbs on a custom manifold I will be fabricating here locally. The weber’s will not be used as I have discovered that my prized 58MM Webers are somewhere in Italy in the hands of a Ferrari engineer who is using them on a vintage go fast Ferrari. I obviously will be sharing the success of this PH2 engine build and if funds and Dyno time permit my goal of 475 HP with the 3-2 bbl config will be reached before I have to ship the completed engine build to the Motor City. Then the U-head development continues with ONLY new existing 300 EFI castings being utilized again no major Hi port or slice and dice furnace brazed offerings will be considered. My personal goal is to offer a finished head that will accept ANY intake or ANY exhaust combination even the stock cast iron manifolds with port matching for mismatch. We don’t want to offer a finished u-head that will cause the new owner angst b/c of the dreaded [what’s a guy supposed to do about this or that] syndrome, we all know what thoughtless mismatches in automotive applications cause the ultimate end-user. Phase II begins with a new fresh build Dyno Mule Motor plans are to Only try carburetion combinations no fuel injection will be tested with the 300 U-Head Dyno Mule Motor. In fact, I plan on designing the u-head engine so that only a piston change can be made to convert from u-head to cross flow. I am not J.Paul Getty with unlimited funds although I met this long haired, long fingernail, eccentric Gentleman while at Ford on assignment in the Caribbean 1973 as I recall, but that’s another story. We will see how things go fund wise…. I may have to scramble and help my Dear wife sell a few more properties then tap my wife for mad money as a last resort. Sorry didn’t mean to get to personal but all of us married types who are also gearheads can relate to my “situation”. Oh BTY, initial plans for breathing life into the cross flow motor will be direct port fuel injection with future testing to include a fabricated plenum manifold multi carb and or 4-bbl version. Paul M and I have had continuing contact on the direction of this effort and I want to personally thank Paul in Open Forum. We are all fortunate to enjoy his level of automotive intellect, read through his multi-faceted strings of subject matter you will obviously be impressed. All for now, say a prayer for success and always remember if this Sounds too energetic for Gramps >>> Don’t bet on it.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #29 by 1986F150six » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:04 am

pmuller9 wrote:The only reasonably available performance intake manifold for the "U" head is the Offenhauser single 4 bbl "C" manifold.
What other intake manifold types would everyone like to see made available for both the "U" head and the crossflow head?


Probably not a popular choice, but Ford experimented with a log intake manifold set up for a 2 barrel carburetor. I would be interested in something like that.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #30 by woodbutcher » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:38 am

:hmmm: Now this getting really interesting.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #31 by sandboxer » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:45 am

This is very exciting indeed!

Gramps:
How much compression are you going to run to achieve 475hp with the China u-flow?

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #32 by pmuller9 » Wed Feb 28, 2018 9:59 am

sandboxer wrote:How much compression are you going to run to achieve 475hp with the China u-flow?

That engine will be using the original raised port 240 head from the Prep H car.
Gramps will be spending a lot more time with that head on the flow bench looking for improvements.

At least 12:1 and looking at a slight piston dome for 13:1

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #33 by WorldChampGramp » Wed Feb 28, 2018 12:09 pm

Another plus when reading PMuller's replies is his accuracy with regard to my current and future development plans. You might say :idea: he's my Editir in Chief. Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #34 by Stonebreaker » Thu Mar 01, 2018 3:36 pm

Fordman75 wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:The only reasonably available performance intake manifold for the "U" head is the Offenhauser single 4 bbl "C" manifold.
What other intake manifold types would everyone like to see made available for both the "U" head and the crossflow head?


Dual and triple carb intakes. I like Clifford performance's dual carb intake. I don't like dealing with Clifford Performance. Two or three carbs is much easier to get even air fuel mixture to all the cylinders.


Plus 1 for the triple carb intake. Preferably for side draft carbs like the intake on the home page of the forum.

Stonebreaker

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #35 by pmuller9 » Thu Mar 01, 2018 10:24 pm

Stonebreaker wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:The only reasonably available performance intake manifold for the "U" head is the Offenhauser single 4 bbl "C" manifold.
What other intake manifold types would everyone like to see made available for both the "U" head and the crossflow head?

Plus 1 for the triple carb intake. Preferably for side draft carbs like the intake on the home page of the forum.
Stonebreaker

One of the items on todays board meeting agenda:

We are looking at making stack injection using two throttle plate assemblies that have three 60mm butterflies in each assembly.
Throttle linkage will be center pull between the two throttle plate assemblies with the outer shaft ends reserved for TPS or Barrel Valve
The throttle plates attach to the port runners that have bosses for either EFI or constant flow injectors pointing into the intake ports.
Velocity stacks bolt to the front of the throttle plate assembly.

There was also discussion around making a more universal manifold with interchangeable provisions for single or multicarb applications.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #36 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:14 pm

pmuller9 wrote:That engine will be using the original raised port 240 head from the Prep H car.
Gramps will be spending a lot more time with that head on the flow bench looking for improvements.

At least 12:1 and looking at a slight piston dome for 13:1


Interesting, am wondering how the ports were raised. Is there any pictures of the "original raised port 240 head" used on the Prep H car? :thumbup: :nod:
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I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #37 by pmuller9 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:25 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Interesting, am wondering how the ports were raised. Is there any pictures of the "original raised port 240 head" used on the Prep H car? :thumbup: :nod:

The ports were simpy ground as high as one could go and still leave enough surface for the intake gasket to seal.
Here is a picture of the original head intake port.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/8n9au2ofdilyr ... 7.JPG?dl=0
Don't ask about the port vanes in the picture.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #38 by bubba22349 » Fri Mar 02, 2018 12:42 pm

Thank you Pmuller9, this is somewhat the way I have been porting my heads too. Raise the intake roof, work the sides some but leave the floor alone. Never had access to flow check them though. As far as intakes go I have been thinking of a duel quad tunnel ram type for quite awhile now. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #39 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:12 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:The ports were simpy ground as high as one could go and still leave enough surface for the intake gasket to seal.

Don't try grinding the ports that high on a stock head casting of ANY year. If you do you will DEFINITELY HIT WATER.
The sand cores for the heads were "rubbed" before the heads were cast, leaving extra iron above the ports.
I am merely pointing this out to save somebody who tries to replicate this a lot of grief. When I was an engineer I did a stint at Cleveland Casting Plant - kept my eyes and ears open and my mouth mostly shut. I also knew C.J. Batten and we discussed some of his projects too.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #40 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:15 pm

Another thing Cyril taught me about the 240 / 300 heads was that the restriction wasn't in the port - it is in the valve bowl. Making the port larger without improving the bowl area is merely going to move the flow restriction further downstream. Sure, it will help make a larger port volume which is needed but further downstream work is needed.
Now y'all have enough info to get busy with a new head design. Get crackin'.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #41 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Mar 02, 2018 3:28 pm

One more thing.
I agonize about saying some things that are told to me in confidence. Many of my mentors - guys who made a mark in six cylinder racing, like Jerry Arnold, John Peto, C.J. - have asked me to keep things private between us. I have honored their requests and at times I know some things I read here are not quite correct based on things I learned from my heroes in the past. But more and more of my heroes are passing away and as they do I feel it is more important to instruct than to keep secrets of the dead. Stuff I learned on my own I will gladly share but other stuff told to me in confidence I will guard to the death - theirs or mine.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #42 by WorldChampGramp » Fri Mar 02, 2018 9:33 pm

Some of the information on the 240 1972 cast D2 part number Prep H head needs to be clarified. One of the original heads (that I ran and now is back in my possession)<<<[refer to the intake port pic posted by PMuller]>>has the highest intake port roof we could squeeze into a STOCK intake port. In fact one of the intake ports of the only head I have been able to retrieve was ground through after it left my custody (circa 1974-75). I will soon take a picture and send on to my confidant PMuller for posting. There were a total of 4 or 5 heads cast at my INSISTANCE & ONLY the cores on the exhaust side were “rubbed” to allow for the possibility of better exhaust flow. These few castings were shared with and GIVEN to a few other racers after I sold my PH Maverick to Elwood Robinson, Newark DE in Early 1974. Reason for selling, I was in the process of constructing the Don Hardy I/Gas Pinto with the six piece Cleveland closed chamber head and Hilborn FI. All my PH porting efforts were trial and error without the benefit of a flow bench (in Michigan) however Crane Cams porting efforts early on in the PH history are documented in the 11-second six March 1971 Car Craft article that has been posted for all to see on this Forum STRONGLY SUGGESTED the 240 head was lacking in the Exhaust side flow department therefore prompting me to CREATE a one of a kind alternative for my NO SPONSOR Modified Eliminator efforts. If there were additional 240 heads cast with parameters other than what I have indicated above, the recipient must have used a different “back door” to Ford Cleveland OH Casting Plant then I was fortunate to cultivate. I try not to be vane but can’t say that for my current flow bench efforts pun intended. I have no compunction about sharing successes and or failures in my current “Swan Song” Big Six efforts. If it wasn’t for the support and encouragement I have received on this Forum and with the direct involvement of PMuller “Chairman of the Board” I would not see these concurrent projects to fruition and the proverbial finish line. In summary Step #1 a modestly modified 9.5 to 1 300 with minimal port work using the EFI pistons and the stock squirter hole 6.21 length rods. An aftermarket Hydraulic cam and aftermarket roller rockers will be the only non-production improvements. Dyno results will be posted here and the final product will be delivered to the owner for installation in a Classic 1966 Ford Pickup. Step # 2 complete the Preparation H clone engine Dyno publish results and send to Michigan for installation in a rolling chassis. **HELP** if anyone knows of a suitable Maverick my Northern Partners sons will gladly consider a purchase arrangement. Step # 3 will be a Dyno Mule motor that will have the very best U-Head design WE can conjure up based on the new off shore casting coupled with a myriad of Intake/carburetion combinations all quantified for publication. Lastly step # 4 will utilize the same basic shortblock as used in step # 3 with a necessary piston change to accommodate the Cross Flow 350 CFM head with the same carburetion combinations tried in Step #3 and the addition of Throttle Body FI with individual butterflies in the 56-63 MM arena. Yes this is very complex and will be difficult to accomplish WITHOUT support and participation from a lot of newly acquired enthusiastic friends who are delighted I am Back at It. Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #43 by arse_sidewards » Fri Mar 02, 2018 10:58 pm

I know what they say about old dogs and new tricks but can you please try and use paragraphs.

I'm gonna go back to reading your post now.

Also, you old guys better write a book or something before you croak. Us young guys would be better of if we weren't starting from scratch.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #44 by WorldChampGramp » Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:36 am

Thank U for the suggestion.

Promise to use more Paragraphs in future posts.

Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #45 by worken2much » Sat Mar 03, 2018 12:15 pm

Gramps,

Couldn't care less about the format of your posts. The content, if written on a shopping bag in purple crayon, is a hundred times more valuable than some properly punctuated, paragraphed, pronoun correct drivel from some pinhead.

Type away...paragraphs be damned.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #46 by Wesman07 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:26 pm

Ah... Beggars can’t be choosers.

Speaking of starting from scratch though... these new heads will most likely require a much different cam than than the “off the shelf” cams we have been using. For instance, it wouldn’t be hard to over cam these motors now if the heads flowed 250+

Is there any plan on providing a few cam cards that would work well with each head? Obviously this would be done after the head was bench flowed. I do know a certain key player in this that is magical with cam selection... hint hint nudge nudge
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #47 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Mar 03, 2018 1:57 pm

The roller cams I'm using on my crossflow head were designed for the lesser-flowing U flow head.

Seem to work fine.
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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #48 by WorldChampGramp » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:14 pm

Re- Post by Gramps with a few corrections and improved readability

Some of the information on the 240 1972 cast D2 part number Prep H head needs to be clarified.
One of the original heads (that I ran and now is back in my possession)<<<[refer to the intake port pic posted by PMuller]>>has the highest intake port roof we could squeeze into a STOCK intake port.
In fact one of the intake ports of the only ORIGINAL heads I have been able to retrieve was ground through after it left my custody (circa 1974-75). I will soon take a picture and send on to my confidant PMuller for posting.

There were a total of 4 or 5 heads cast at my INSISTANCE & ONLY the cores on the exhaust side were “rubbed” to allow for the possibility of better exhaust flow. These few castings were shared with and GIVEN to a few other racers after I sold my PH Maverick to Elwood Robinson, Newark DE in Early 1974.

Reason for selling, I was in the process of constructing the Don Hardy I/Gas Pinto with the six piece Cleveland closed chamber head and Hilborn FI. All my PH porting efforts were trial and error without the benefit of a flow bench (in Michigan) however Crane Cams porting efforts early on in the PH history are documented in the 11-second six March 1971 Car Craft article that has been posted for all to see on this Forum to read . Crane flow work STRONGLY SUGGESTED the 240 head was lacking in Exhaust side port flow department prompting me to CREATE a one-of- a- kind alternative for my NO SPONSOR Modified Eliminator efforts.
If there were additional 240 heads cast with parameters other than what I have indicated above, the recipient must have used a different “back door” to Ford Cleveland OH Casting Plant then I was fortunate to cultivate.

I try not to be vane but can’t say that for my current flow bench efforts [pun intended] see Muller port photo. I have no compunction about sharing successes and or failures in my current “Swan Song” Big Six efforts. If it wasn’t for the support and encouragement I have received on this Forum and with the direct involvement of PMuller “Chairman of the Board” I would not see these concurrent projects to fruition and the proverbial finish line.

In summary Step #1 will be a modestly modified 9.5:1 300 with minimal port work using the EFI pistons aftermarket Speed pro hypereutectic pistons and the stock squirter hole 6.21 length rods. An aftermarket Hydraulic cam, aftermarket roller rockers, PMuller designed and sourced pushrod guide plates & a minimum of other anticipated non-production improvements to keep costs at a bare minimum. Dyno results will be posted here and the final product will be delivered to the owner for installation in a Classic 1966 Ford Pickup.

Step # 2 is to complete the Preparation H clone engine Dyno publish results and send to Michigan for installation in a rolling chassis.
**HELP** REQUEST if anyone knows of a suitable Maverick rolling chassis my Michigan Partners sons will strongly consider a purchase arrangement regardless of where the Maverick my be.
Step # 3 will be a separate no holds barred Dyno Mule motor that will have the very best U-Head design WE can conjure up based on the new off shore casting coupled with a myriad of Intake/carburetion combinations all quantified for publication.
Lastly step # 4 will utilize the same basic short block as used in step # 3 with a necessary piston change to accommodate the Cross Flow 350?? CFM head with the same carburetion combinations tried in Step #3 (necessitating a newly designed plenum) and the construction of a complete IR Throttle Body F.I. system. At Pmuller’s suggestion we are pursuing individual butterflies in the 56-63 MM arena.

All these prototype parts will be thoroughly evaluated using racer friendly cost analysis and will be offered to the general public for purchase. Yes this is very complex and challenging program to pull-off and would not be possible WITHOUT support and participation from a lot of newly acquired enthusiastic friends here in SW Florida AND ELSEWHERE. We have a personal motto in our family RE endeavors “Results always speak louder than words” Gramps

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #49 by WorldChampGramp » Sat Mar 03, 2018 2:45 pm

In response to Wesman07 and others:

Regarding camshafts for the new cross flow Sizemore head current 240-300; staggered Intake/Exhaust sequence will be used AGAIN to keep cost down so that anyone having a current camshaft that will work with a 1.7 RA ratio can try theirs FIRST without mortgaging the farm.

Side note if anyone has a roller cam for the 240-300 we would consider buying for our Dyno sessions. Regrinding is way cheaper than starting from scratch.

Oh BTW we are also going to offer a roller retainer kit for anyone wishing to use hydraulic rollers which will be a much needed popular 240-300 item. As the old adage states “the Good Lord willing and the creek doesn't rise” Gramps will promise you my very best effort.

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Re: Permanent 300 Six Cyl Head CFM solutions- A Work in Progress

Post #50 by Wesman07 » Sat Mar 03, 2018 8:10 pm

Wonderful. I’m ecstatic on thought of head options.
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