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Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

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Str8sx
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Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #1 by Str8sx » Sun Jul 29, 2018 5:11 pm

So that there is no confusion I will refer to the motor that I am putting in the truck as number one and the motor that I removed as number 2.
Motor number 2 quit working right when I got to the top of the pass heading out on a 2 and 1/2 hour journey. These two motors are identical. The truck that motor number one was in was rolled about 2 years ago and has been parked ever since. My son went and bought another 95 which had the exact motor and body type as the one in truck number one.
He took the transmission and transfer case out of number 1 and put it in truck number 2. Why he did not switch the motor when he did the other work is beyond me and I'll never know. When I drove truck number 2 it did not seem to have the power that truck number one had. We don't know much about truck number 2 as far as maintenance goes. He did replace the clutch, the master cylinder, and the slave cylinder. Since he has had truck number 2 he has stayed up on oil changes, coolant levels, clutch fluid, transmission, T case, rear end fluids as well as clutch and brake fluid. So we do know about the t-case and the transmission as far as its maintenance history.
Right now motor number one is hanging from an engine hoist. I pulled the oil pan and obviously am going to change that gasket. I did not find any metal in the pan, however I did find two rocks one tiny and one quite large the tiny one was laying in the bottom of the pan and the larger one was sitting in the groove on top of the oil pickup. Personally I have never seen that. I figure it must have been introduced during an oil fill or change. If any of you have other thoughts on that I would be quite interested. Motor number one was running great when it was rolled.
My questions right now are these. Even though there were no problems with it 2 years ago when it was rolled it has been sitting for 2 years. Truck number one has been in a backyard (Alaska climate) and covered for two years. Also keep in mind that there was no transmission attached to it no bellhousing attached, obviously. So are there things that I should check for since I have the motor out of the vehicle? I am already going to change one of the motor mounts because the motor mount on the passenger side had fallen apart and the one that came out when I pulled motor number 2 is in fine condition. I don't have the financial resources to really tear into it at this time so I'm not going to be pulling the head which will involve intake gaskets and I'm sure many other gaskets. Are there things that I should look at between the two motors to see if there is anything on motor number two that I might want to put on motor number one? Also, when I push in the clutch I noticed a very small amount of fluid come out at the top of the input shaft. I wiped it off and push the clutch again one time and again a very small amount of clutch fluid came out at the top of the input shaft. I have not touched anything on the input shaft as of yet. I am wondering if there is a seal behind it that I could pull off the slave cylinder and check out or is it possible that the two bolts that hold it on could be loose not tighten to factory specs and maybe you should try to check that out first? I really don't have the resources right now to pick up another slave cylinder so I am hoping that there is something else that I can do to see if I can keep from having to do that. Although I am aware it will be a much easier job to do while the motor is out.
I am no mechanic. I learn as I go along, quite often from the mistakes that I make. I'm very glad to have found this forum with people that have much more knowledge than I do. Hopefully as I learn more I will be able to help somebody else down the road.
I am thankful for any responses that I get.
Thanks for reading my novel.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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bubba22349
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #2 by bubba22349 » Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:34 am

If both engines are the late 95 MAF type should be a direct bolt in swap and as you are using the best parts from the two that will keep your costs way down. Was the slave cyclinder leaking before you took it apart? Did you step on the clutch pedal without the clutch and bell housing bolted up? If the slave cylinder is leaking it maybe due to the piston coming part way out of its bore, check that out and make sure it's fully seated before you reinstall bell housing. They likely only have one seal around the pistions bore and if it gets damaged don't know of any rebuild kit for them. If it's been leaking before then you might be better off getting a new cylinder before you bolt it all back togeather unless the other truck slave is still good. Good luck on your swap :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

94f150rules
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #3 by 94f150rules » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:14 pm

Whenever I swap an engine from a donor truck or junkyard, I like to check it out, a few bucks and a few hours is a lot better than a truck breaking down when you don't want it to and then having to do the same job anyway...

Get a torque wrench, either buy one or borrow it. At the very least unbolt and check the rod and main bearings before you put the engine in. If it ran well, and didn't smoke your rings and cylinder head are decent and even if they aren't perfect they're passable enough to drive the truck. When you check the bearings, you want to mark the direction the main cap faces, they need to go back in the same order and facing in the same direction otherwise they can ruin an engine. When you pull the caps to check the bearings you should see a shiny silver surface on the bearing itself and the crank shaft surface shouldn't have grooves in it. If you're lucky the engine will be like mine was I had little bits of copper just starting to show through and my crank wasn't damaged at all, I just had the machine shop check, clean and polish it then I installed new bearings. You have to check every bearing, you will have to rotate the crankshaft to get to some rods and mains. To make that easier remove all of your spark plugs, the engine will spin with minimal effort. When you're ready to put it back together put up a post and Ill scan the torque specs for the rod and main caps so you don't have to buy the manual. Otherwise just a new oil pump, rear main seal, and replace most gaskets, check and replace the vacuum lines that run around the valve cover behind the head, and maybe a quick coat of engine paint. The idea is, replace or check anything you cant get to without pulling the engine now, so you only have to do it once. The slave cylinder is about $45 and cant be changed with out removing the transmission so I would recommend changing it now instead of hoping it stops leaking. If youre smart about it youll have a lot of piece of mind and a reliable engine for around $250 in parts. Im in mine for close to $2500 and that's rebuilding the engine, all new accessories, clutch, pressure plate, throw out bearing, slave cylinder, pilot bushing, slave cylinder bushing, engine and trans mounts, EGR tube, and an exhaust basically my truck had its butt kicked but kept running surprisingly well, you shouldn't need anything like that.... If youre in doubt of anything just take some pictures and put them up on here and Ill be happy to help.

Also as far as being outside with no transmission, that shouldnt create any new problems, but your flywheel is probably rusty now so I would swap the one from the other engine..

On a side note if the lower intake manifold from the junk engine is in good shape I would be interested in buying it. Mine is cracked so I have to buy one anyway and if you sold it to me it would give you some extra cash towards your build.

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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #4 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Jul 30, 2018 2:55 pm

Keep the clutch master cylinder full. Its a bugger to bleed the system.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Str8sx
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?'s for 94f150rules (or anyone else)

Post #5 by Str8sx » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:22 pm

"At the very least unbolt and check the rod and main bearings before you put the engine in."

Are these what I see at the bottom of the motor with the oil pan off? I do not have an engine stand so I would have to do it hanging from the hoist. Is anything going to fall out if I pull off the caps faces?

"Ill scan the torque specs for the rod and main caps so you don't have to buy the manual."

I have a torque wrench and a Chiltons, so I have the specs. If I use an extension does the torque reading stay the same as without an extension?

"On a side note if the lower intake manifold from the junk engine is in good shape I would be interested in buying it."

I'll pull it and if I don't see any obvious damage, I'll post pics. What would that be worth?

"it would give you some extra cash towards your build."

I like the sound of that as I do not have the funds for a new oil pump or other gaskets. The VC gasket was changed within the last three years (two of the years with the motor sitting.) When my son changed that (rubber gasket) he changed the upper since he had to pull it and changed the lower since he was almost there anyway. I don't see any leaks at the VC and the rubber "tabs" that you can see running around the gasket appear to be in good shape. In fact, they look like it was just put on. I put in a new rear main today. I also have a new oil pan gasket, water pump gasket and thermostat housing (?) gasket.
Is there a way to check out the water pump while off the vehicle? One of them spins more freely than the other. The fins or blades (?) on each one look identical and don't appear to be damaged. Also, is there a way to check a thermostat while out of the vehicle? One last question, I think. When I pulled the thermostat on the old engine there was a decent amount of sludge behind where the thermostat sits in its housing. I'll try to attatch a pic. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll pepper you with some more ?'s as time goes by. As you can tell, I am no mechanic, but I am quite mechanically inclined. If I take it apart, I can get it back together. Also, a pic of the rear main seal is attached as well, hopefully it is good enough that you could tell me if it looks right. I have yet to do one of those yet until today.

https://ibb.co/cUehM8

https://ibb.co/fxQ8To

https://ibb.co/nQFWg8

https://ibb.co/cnv3uT

Nickel for perspective
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

Str8sx
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Bubba22349

Post #6 by Str8sx » Mon Jul 30, 2018 8:48 pm

"Was the slave cyclinder leaking before you took it apart? Did you step on the clutch pedal without the clutch and bell housing bolted up?"

Not that I noticed and yes I did. I checked reservoir AFTER I saw the fluid leak and after pressing the clutch a couple of times. Once which is when I noticed the small leak and second when I put my phone under the shaft to take a video. I'll try to post that. I'm hoping that I can pull the two bolts that hold the slave in place and can check a seal. If that is not possible or if there is not some other way to make it stop, I'll just have to keep fluid on hand and fill it periodically as I cannot afford to replace it. Is it possible that it will stop once the clutch is put all back together? I would assume there would be pressure on it then. Did I screw something up by pressing the clutch in after removal? Is it possible that the two bolts just aren't tightened to speck? One last note, the fluid was still 3/4 or more full when I looked at it.

Thanks

Squirt is around :16 ONE push of the clutch. Have not done it since the video (2 times total)

https://vimeo.com/282413350
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

Str8sx
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94f150 rules.

Post #7 by Str8sx » Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:27 pm

I was pretty excited when I looked at the outside of the lower after I removed the top and didn't see any cracks. Unfortunately as you can see from the picture, the top bolt at #6 cyl is broke. Imagine #1 son did that when he replaced the gaskets.


https://ibb.co/cs81yo
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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bubba22349
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Re: Bubba22349

Post #8 by bubba22349 » Tue Jul 31, 2018 12:00 am

Str8sx wrote:"Was the slave cyclinder leaking before you took it apart? Did you step on the clutch pedal without the clutch and bell housing bolted up?"

Not that I noticed and yes I did. I checked reservoir AFTER I saw the fluid leak and after pressing the clutch a couple of times. Once which is when I noticed the small leak and second when I put my phone under the shaft to take a video. I'll try to post that. I'm hoping that I can pull the two bolts that hold the slave in place and can check a seal. If that is not possible or if there is not some other way to make it stop, I'll just have to keep fluid on hand and fill it periodically as I cannot afford to replace it. Is it possible that it will stop once the clutch is put all back together? I would assume there would be pressure on it then.

"1. Maybe time will tell, seems odd for it to be leaking around the trans input shaft bearing retainer though."

Did I screw something up by pressing the clutch in after removal?

"2. Maybe though it looks like you didn't really push very hard or went with very much clutch pedal travel."

Is it possible that the two bolts just aren't tightened to speck?

"3. Posablely should be easy enough to check since you have use of a torque wrench."

One last note, the fluid was still 3/4 or more full when I looked at it.

"4. That's a great thing you don't want to get them dry they can be real hard to bled the air out of them."

Thanks

Squirt is around :16 ONE push of the clutch. Have not done it since the video (2 times total)


https://vimeo.com/282413350


Str8sx, it would be better not to even push on the clutch pedal of a Hydrolic clutch system when it's apart, good thing you didn't push it very far though. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: 94f150 rules.

Post #9 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Jul 31, 2018 7:44 am

Str8sx wrote:I was pretty excited when I looked at the outside of the lower after I removed the top and didn't see any cracks. Unfortunately as you can see from the picture, the top bolt at #6 cyl is broke. Imagine #1 son did that when he replaced the gaskets.


https://ibb.co/cs81yo


That is a common failure point if the weight of the manifold is allowed to hang on that bolt while you try to get the rest started. Support the manifold - get two people to do it if needed. I can't count the number of intakes I've bought that had a similar failure and needed repairing.

Do not try to use that manifold without repairing that tab. It will leak for sure.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

arse_sidewards
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #10 by arse_sidewards » Tue Jul 31, 2018 8:23 am

bubba22349 wrote:If both engines are the late 95 MAF type should be a direct bolt in swap and as you using the best parts from the two that will keep your costs way down.


There is no "late 95 MAF" there is a CA and MA MAF system used in '95 and then there's the '96 OBD2 system.

Regardless, the longblocks interchange just fine. If anyone has a '95 MAF apart I'd be curious to know whether it has hypereutectic pistons.

94F150rules wrote:. When you pull the caps to check the bearings you should see a shiny silver surface on the bearing itself and the crank shaft surface...


Bearings are so cheap I'd just install a set while the caps are off.

Str8sx wrote:When I drove truck number 2 it did not seem to have the power that truck number one had. We don't know much about truck number 2 as far as maintenance goes.


What axle gear ratio does truck 2 have? That has the single biggest effect on your butt dyno reading in these trucks. Most of these trucks don't have tachometers which means you probably won't notice the difference unless you check the ratio. Most of the time that people with multiple trucks complain that one is slow or say something dumb like "my 302 pulls better at low RPM than my 300" it's because the axle ratio is different.

Str8sx wrote:I was pretty excited when I looked at the outside of the lower after I removed the top and didn't see any cracks. Unfortunately as you can see from the picture, the top bolt at #6 cyl is broke. Imagine #1 son did that when he replaced the gaskets.


https://ibb.co/cs81yo


This is why I don't recommend pulling the lower intake and exhaust manifolds if they're not leaking. The extra weight is less of a pain in the butt than replacing gaskets. You can even do a valve job with the manifolds on if you need to.

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
Str8sx wrote:I was pretty excited when I looked at the outside of the lower after I removed the top and didn't see any cracks. Unfortunately as you can see from the picture, the top bolt at #6 cyl is broke. Imagine #1 son did that when he replaced the gaskets.

https://ibb.co/cs81yo


That is a common failure point if the weight of the manifold is allowed to hang on that bolt while you try to get the rest started. Support the manifold - get two people to do it if needed. I can't count the number of intakes I've bought that had a similar failure and needed repairing.


I disagree. You'd really need to be rough with it to break the tab while the manifold is just sitting there. I think the thick combination intake/exhaust gaskets are to blame IMO. They just keep crushing as you tighten the bolt (you still probably need to over torque it to break a tab) until the tab snaps and that tab is particularly vulnerable since there's no exhaust manifold propping up the other side of the washer and taking half the force.


Putting a ton of force (i.e. leaning on it to get to other things) on the upper intake before the driver's side support is installed probably doesn't help either.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Clarification on intake

Post #11 by Str8sx » Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:17 pm

The lower intake that the tab is broken off is from the old motor
I pulled it to check for cracks since someone was interested in buying it.


"What axle gear ratio does truck 2 have?"


3.55/8.8"

"Regardless, the longblocks interchange just fine. If anyone has a '95 MAF apart I'd be curious to know whether it has hypereutectic pistons."

I plan to take the head off of this old motor. Tell me what I'm looking for or what pictures you want and I'll do it for ya. I want to find out why it quit on me. Although my priority is getting this one done and put her where she belongs.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

Str8sx
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Temp sensor

Post #12 by Str8sx » Tue Jul 31, 2018 11:58 pm

Is there a way to bench test the temp sensor (located at the back of the block just below the head) my wiring harness is in great shape except for that one single wire. I stripped it back to bare copper and used that wire from the other motor. Soldered and shrunk wrapped it. Aside from a rusted post in the sensor, which I cleaned up the sensor looks clean even the last four threads of it are still shiny!
I appreciate all the knowledge I have gained so far here, you guys rock.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

Str8sx
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MAP or MAF

Post #13 by Str8sx » Wed Aug 01, 2018 4:10 am

Arse_sideways I was incorrect I have MAP. Hey? I've still got a lot to learn, but I'll get there.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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Re: MAP or MAF

Post #14 by arse_sidewards » Wed Aug 01, 2018 5:14 am

Str8sx wrote:Arse_sideways I was incorrect I have MAP. Hey? I've still got a lot to learn, but I'll get there.


Post a pic of the door jamb sticker.
1994 F150 4x4 8ft, engine is basically stock.

66" leafs, extended radius arms, lockers in both ends, nothing special.

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Re: Temp sensor

Post #15 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 9:40 am

Str8sx wrote:Is there a way to bench test the temp sensor (located at the back of the block just below the head) my wiring harness is in great shape except for that one single wire. I stripped it back to bare copper and used that wire from the other motor. Soldered and shrunk wrapped it. Aside from a rusted post in the sensor, which I cleaned up the sensor looks clean even the last four threads of it are still shiny!
I appreciate all the knowledge I have gained so far here, you guys rock.


Yes you can bench test a senor with a reading from a volt / ohm meter and compare that reading to that of a known good or new one. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: ?'s for 94f150rules (or anyone else)

Post #16 by bubba22349 » Wed Aug 01, 2018 10:00 am

Str8sx wrote:"At the very least unbolt and check the rod and main bearings before you put the engine in."

Are these what I see at the bottom of the motor with the oil pan off?

1. Yes

I do not have an engine stand so I would have to do it hanging from the hoist. Is anything going to fall out if I pull off the caps faces?

2. Probably not, however it’s going to be hard to do that job and retorquing the main bolts hanging from the hoist. Better would be to set it on the ground standing straight up you could install the flywheel without clutch and set it on a piece of plywood .

"Ill scan the torque specs for the rod and main caps so you don't have to buy the manual."

I have a torque wrench and a Chiltons, so I have the specs. If I use an extension does the torque reading stay the same as without an extension?

3. Yes the torque reading will stay the same as long as the extension is straight with the bolt in the vertical axis.

"On a side note if the lower intake manifold from the junk engine is in good shape I would be interested in buying it."

I'll pull it and if I don't see any obvious damage, I'll post pics. What would that be worth?

"it would give you some extra cash towards your build."

I like the sound of that as I do not have the funds for a new oil pump or other gaskets. The VC gasket was changed within the last three years (two of the years with the motor sitting.) When my son changed that (rubber gasket) he changed the upper since he had to pull it and changed the lower since he was almost there anyway. I don't see any leaks at the VC and the rubber "tabs" that you can see running around the gasket appear to be in good shape. In fact, they look like it was just put on. I put in a new rear main today. I also have a new oil pan gasket, water pump gasket and thermostat housing (?) gasket.
Is there a way to check out the water pump while off the vehicle? One of them spins more freely than the other.

4. If when holding the fan pulley the clutch unit turns real easy then the thermostatic clutch unit is likely bad use the that had some resistance on it.

The fins or blades (?) on each one look identical and don't appear to be damaged. Also, is there a way to check a thermostat while out of the vehicle?

5. Yes put it in a pan of water heat until it opens checking the temperature reads at it rateing.

One last question, I think. When I pulled the thermostat on the old engine there was a decent amount of sludge behind where the thermostat sits in its housing. I'll try to attatch a pic. Thanks again for the help. I'm sure I'll pepper you with some more ?'s as time goes by. As you can tell, I am no mechanic, but I am quite mechanically inclined. If I take it apart, I can get it back together. Also, a pic of the rear main seal is attached as well, hopefully it is good enough that you could tell me if it looks right. I have yet to do one of those yet until today.

https://ibb.co/cUehM8

https://ibb.co/fxQ8To

https://ibb.co/nQFWg8

https://ibb.co/cnv3uT

Nickel for perspective


While you have the cooling system open try to flush out all that gunk. Good luck on the swap :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Reply to sideways and bubba

Post #17 by Str8sx » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:43 am

The requsted pic of jam jacket in link below. Would someone tell me how to put a picture in my post? I get a message that says the quota for attachments has been met. Maybe I should post earlier in the day?

The "gunked' t-stat housing is from the motor that I pulled out. I questioned beacause I was curious as to how that got there. The t-stat looked like crap and the o-ring in there was torn and sticking up. Makes me think that the head gasket blew because I never got a read from the temp sensor. The t-stat in the motor I am installing looks band new. Fluid was nice and green when I drained it. Radiator has less than 1k on it. Also, thanks for the answer on bench test, it tested to spec. Just needed to be cleaned. The one from the old motor was not functioning.

https://ibb.co/ftM95e
Keep in mind that this sticker goes with the old motor, although both are identical.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

94f150rules
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #18 by 94f150rules » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:45 pm

Hi str8sx sorry I didnt get back to you earlier. I found you a video online, so you can get an idea of how to check your rod and main bearings. Its from one of those Sunday morning car shows, theyre building a 300 straight 6 and they show you how to pull the bearing caps. https://www.powernationtv.com/episode/HP2013-18/a-buildup-of-fords-classic-inline-six

Also my intake is cracked in the the same spot it seems to be a common problem.

You can check your existing thermostat using boiling water. You do need a thermometer just to check things out. Basically boil some water and check it with a thermometer to see what the temperature is . wait until the temperature is up to the temperature your thermostat is rated for. Then use some tongs and carefully drop your thermostat into the water it should open right up. If it only opens half way, or not at all, get rid of it. You have to wait until the water is at temperature because sometimes the heat on the bottom of the pan from the burner will make the thermostat open up, Ive also had thermostats that were rated at 180 that didnt open fully until close to 200 so checking the temperature if important.

If you use a chrome extension on youre torque wrench you do lose some torque. A good quality hardened impact grade extension tends not to twist as much.I just generally add 5 lbs when I use a 6" 1/2 drive chrome extension.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #19 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Aug 03, 2018 1:35 pm

94f150rules wrote:

If you use a chrome extension on youre torque wrench you do lose some torque.


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94f150rules
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #20 by 94f150rules » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:01 pm

A while back when I had my shop, I was rebuilding the straight six in my friends Jeep and I was torquing the cylinder head back on the block with a 6" chrome extension. I forgot if I asked him or he asked me but we got into a debate over whether an extension twisted enough to affect torque. I said I never checked I just assumed it was fine, but it did say that it did in the text book they gave us in school and I think it even had a formula. Then he said did you ever notice sometimes the impact gun doesnt bust a nut loose with a chrome extension but does with an impact rated one, my theory was it was a coincidence and its probably just coming loose because by stopping to switch extensions you just worked on the bolt longer.... Anyway we bought a torque attachment for the end of the extension, it was a little dial set up that let you read torque, and I set my snap on click wrench. Sure enough the wrench clicked but the torque reading on the bottom of the extension was 2 or 3 lbs shy of what I set my torque wrench to. We also tried it without the extension and it was almost identical. Then we tried it with a hardened extension and it was also nearly identical. Ever since then I just add 5lbs to be safe. It could be it was a poorly made extension or it had been flexed a bunch in its life I'm not sure. But that's just what I do now because of it, and I've never had anything fail so I'm guessing it's ok.

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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #21 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:43 pm

IMO that makes no sense. And the analogy to the impact wrench is not relevant.

The sum total of all the forces in the torque wrench example has to equal zero. Torque in = torque out. If not, where did the "lost torque" go?

In the example of the air impact wrench that is a totally different scenario because of the dynamics of impact loading. The impact forces transmitted to the socket are higher without the extension because with the extension some of the impact forces are absorbed by the twisting of the extension. This is similarly analogous to long axles vs short axles. A long and short axle may have the same physical dimensions vis-a-vis diameter, splines, etc, and same metallurgy but the longer axle will "wind up" under impact loading such as a hole shot, whereas the shorter axle is more likely to fail from impact loading. But that is not the case when you are torquing a bolt. Correct procedure calls for pulling evenly and steadily on the wrench handle until the correct torque reading is reached, eliminating the possibility of impact loading.

Folks, never torque a bolt beyond its maximum recommended spec. You will run the possibility of stretching it beyond its elastic limit and inducing a failure.

[note: Torque-to-yield bolts are purposely torqued into their plastic range but even then the precise procedure must be closely followed or you risk fastener failure.]
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #22 by Str8sx » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:55 am

Not sure if I need to post this in a new thread or not. Please advise if I should. The motor swap is complete! I have some health issues that slows me down a bit, but finally. Also, aside from hood removal, I did the whole job single handed. (Could not have done it without some great avice and answers right here!) I idled the motor for half hour or so, had CE light come on. Test revealed 522 ( if I remember correctly) just a clutch switch thing. Cleared codes and all is good in that front for now.

Problem: I have not been able to test drive because I cannot get the thing in to gear. Here is what I have done this far.
I tried gravity bleeding the slave cylinder as the manual says to do. I did get a bunch of air to come out (tube in the bottle deal.) I did the pump, hold down, bleed and repeat. I disconnected the master cylinder. Put it on the top of a 6 foot ladder, pulled the hose down as far as possible, zip tied the connector to keep it in place and pushed the rod hundreds of times. I did have air in there. Once the bubbles became few and far between I started counting each press of the rod and started back at 1 whenever saw a bubble. I was finally able to get to 100 pushes w/o a bubble and the rod dpid not travel very far at all, very firm. That completed, I put it all back together, reattached to slave and still had no pedal. Straight to the floor without resistance. I got a hold of a vacuum whatever it is called. I got the idea to loosen the bleeder at slave, attatch a hose and put it in a quart bottle full of DOT3. I stuck the vacuum tube in the tiny hole at the bottom of the MC and started sucking. I could hear he fluid coming out of the bottle and got pretty excited as I saw a
lot of air bubbles. After a while the big bubbles stopped, but I still kept getting streams of tiny bubbles. Understand that as my container on the vacuum fills up, I am draining it back into the bottle. I spent well over an hour at this. It is obvious that air is getting introduced somewhere. I pulled the zert fitting off the slave and put Teflon tape on it.
The slave cylinder doesn't have 10K on it but I have heard horror stories of people having to replace 3 and 4 time in a year! I would think if it was bad that I would see some fluid coming out of the bell housing, but nadda. It's all clean, both the engine and tranny since I did the swap. The transmission goes through all gears when not running.
Early on in this process I put it in gear and started it (or tried to) it wanted to move with the turn of the key but didn't cuz ebrake. Later on in the process I tried that again. Had it in 2nd started it and it was great with the clutch pedal down did not try to move. It grabbed at the slightest release, but it felt good. Restarted it in neutral and still will not shift in to gear. It will grind 3 4 and reverse with clutch fully engaged. At any rate, now even the ability to start it in gear has been lost.

So, here is one possibility that I have come up with since I have been typing this. When I replaced the o-ring at the fitting to slave the times that I have disconnected the MC, would using an incorrect o-ring cause my issue?
Is it possible for the slave to be sucking air from somewhere other than tht fittong and still not show signs of leaking fluid (at the bell housing?)

Last question. In my removing of the hose I have broken the tiny plastic ring used to disconnect it from the slave. I have called the big four auto places in town and all they come up with is the metal tool used to press it in. Of course if I had had that my ring would not be broken. Anyone have a idea on what else I could use or know a part number for it? I have scoured the internet and have not seen one. Maybe it will come with a new hose and I can replace it. I tried cutting an expired credit card into strips and putting like 10 or 12 strips of it all around it, but.no success. Tried a hose clamp also. Thin enough but couldn't get it pushed in deep enough all the way around.

Long winded I know but better for you to have all the info the i can think of that I have tried with his thing. I don't want to spend another 17 hour day on this.. Thank you.

95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, thermostat and seal replaced intake gasket also transmission rebuilt t-case rebuilt​about 10Kmi ago.
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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Shorty
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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #23 by Shorty » Sat Aug 25, 2018 11:42 am

I had a similar problem with my 85. I had to start it in gear or i couldn't get it to go into gear without a ton of grinding and I had to shift at the sweet rpm to get it to go into the next gear. Not fun to drive. Checked the fire wall where the master cyl attaches, it was solid (some times they flex too much with pedal pressure) then I noticed that the push rod had a threaded section for adjustment that was stripped and had pushed together. I cut a new thread( slightly smaller, original was metric, the thread I cut was close but slightly smaller SAE I think 1/4-20) on the one side and shortened the other half enough that I could tig weld on a nut. Put it all back together with the now adjustable push rod adjusted to the proper length and it has shifted perfectly now for three years.
85 F150 on 78 bronco frame C6 np205 welded dana44 front, trussed posi nine inch rear. EFI exhaust manifolds into one 2 1/2" rolls on 35x12.5x15 Maxxis Trepador.

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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #24 by Str8sx » Mon Sep 03, 2018 4:27 am

Ok all. Turned out I had a leak at slave cylinder. The last one had maybe 10k on it. I may have possibly damaged it when I had the motor out for close to a month. Got it all bled. In case you are wondering how I got my line out of the bell housing. I purchased a new slave from Oreillys and it came with the plastic disconnect part as well as the flat tool. I guess this slave was an 'upgrade' as the female end had a different connection type made to make disconnect easier. Well, not for a ZFs5-42 transmission. There was not enough space to accommodate this new comnector to install. So refund and correct one (thanks NAPA.) Drove the truck about 230 miles. It was running at higher idle than I would have liked (about 1150.) Also about 20 miles from my destination the truck was lurching. Regardless of pedal it was like the computer called for fuel no fuel, fuel no fuel, continuously. I ran self test and got code 998. Arrgh! I swapped the MAP sensor from the truck that was rolled, cleared codes and the problem went away.
I noticed that my idle has come down (haven't been able to get my buddy with his scan tool to recheck it.) I set my Fluke meter on A.C., grounded the black lead and put positive on coil (neg wire) motor was around 900 at idle and voltage went up with acceleration. I assume that was a reading of my RPM. If anyone could confirm or deny that I would appreciate it. It sounds like I think it should sound.
Two concerns. 1) There is a small vacuum tube directly below the MAP sensor that runs to the vacuum tree. I noticed it was not plugged back in after I swapped motors. What is it connected to? What does it affect. I'm wondering if it could have anything to do with my idle going down. Does the computer start to 'learn driving habits? I know I read that somewhere. 2) My temp gauge is not moving. How do I test if it is the gauge itself, the sending unit or the wire to the sending unit? I know the sending unit is at the rear of the block of the passenger side and a pain in the ass to get to. Not as big of a pain as blowing the head gasket.

Thanks to all of you that have guided me on this project. It feels good to have finally accomplished it. (Well, have it driveable at least.)
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #25 by bubba22349 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 9:30 am

Congrats on making lots of progress on the engine swap for your pickup. Can’t answer about were the vacuum lines hook up don't have access to my manuals right now, but it’s important to get them right. On my 94 I had some trouble getting it to idle right too. It took the replacement of most of the OG plastic vacuum lines (were crumbling or cracked) plus cleaning of all the wiring grounds, and the connections to the Solenoids on the valve cover. These had loose and or dirty connections, afterwards when all were fixed it ran as it was supposed to and was able to pass the Calif. smog test.

Yes when you disconnect the battery the ECU (computer) reverts to its base timing and fuel tables / maps and then as you drive the truck its self learning it takes a little while to retune itself. On the temp sender make sure it’s clean and shows that it’s grounded. Check that the wire connection is clean and snug, also do a resistance test comparing it to a known good one. On the gauge part they have a printed circuit board on back of the instrument panel check that it looks in good condition you can clean the contact points with a pencil eraser. Check that the circuit board has continuity. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #26 by Str8sx » Thu Sep 27, 2018 10:47 pm

Bubba,
Thanks for the congrats. As I believed I have mentioned before due to health issues I am not always able to work on this ole girl.

Here is my update:
She has been very good to me in the last couple of weeks of driving. I'm still trying to dial in the power sterering issue. Also, am still getting code 327 KOEO. That's the only code. No codes KOER! From what I have seen fixing this could solve my low fuel mileage (10 town/12-13 highway.) I removed EGR, cleaned the carbon and tested. No leaks. I did propane and then smoke test on vaccuum, no leaks. I visually checked all wires during the new motor install and used dielectric grade at each electrical connection. Here's my thought-- could it be as simple as the actual part coming off of the EGR? The part with the plug that is attached to the valve itself. What about something else?
Also, an afterthought that may be of use to someone reading this, I started having an issue during deceleration that it would grind horribly and when I pushed forward as hard as I could on the 4wd shifter I could get it to get it back right. The grinding continued even throwing transmission to neutral. Deciphered xfer case could be the problem (BW1356) and since I just happened to have one (lol) replaced it last night. Result: perfection! It does suck since my son and I rebuilt this about 20K ago, but no slow down and I have a garage bench work project for our long Alaskan winter. Any recommendations on where I should purchase the rebuild kit? I saw two listed on rockauto for 73.00, but I don't want poor quality and I have no idea. Also (long read, thanks.) When I pulled the xfer case last night (after draining and I couldn't feel fluid at the fill hole before draining and I KNOW I filled it at swap 400miles ago) away from the transmission, atf poured to the ground. Only answer for that would be the input seal on xfer case was bad. Right? That would explain a lot.

Thank you forum for all. I do read other people's issue and cannot wait until I can actually help someone else!
95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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6Re: Doing a motor swap. Identical motors. Have questions

Post #27 by Str8sx » Fri Sep 28, 2018 1:33 am

Short story: problem solved.

Stop here unless you want the longer story.

Through a few searches found out the part I was looking for was the EVP. Googled for a price and saw the picture. I thought 'damn if I didn't see one of those in the glove box.' My son moved out of state and I kept his truck for now (I know, nice dad, thanks for swapping my motor.) I called him and said 'what is this plastic part with an electrical connector and a metal post that is springy?' He said he didn't know, it was with the truck when he bought it after rolling the one I gave him. So, did the previous owner (that had the original engine that blew) keep a broken part?' Turns out, maybe not. I just grabbed an 8mm socket and a flashlight and replaced it. Put the motor in test so I could clear codes and test and without even starting it, no codes. (I did get 111... i love that one.) Disconnected test. Fired and ran for five minutes, still no CEL. Have not test driven yet, won't until tomorrow, but this code threw for me in under 10 seconds after being cleared--until now. I'm a happy camper. I'll attatch a pic.

Can you tell the difference? It should be obvious, but the fact is that the computer recognized the part change without even running so the one that was in it was reporting bad without running!
It only took weeks, but all is good for now.
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95 4.9l MAP ZFs5-42 Standard cab/bed 133" Borg-Warner 1356 manual Manual hubs 3.55, 31X10.5X15
230Kmi Dual tanks Trailer Brake Maint: head gasket, valve cover gasket, pan gasket, wp gasket, intake gasket Aug '18 transmission rebuilt about 10Kmi ago. Xfercase230k. Currently rebuilding another BW1356

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