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Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

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GPGoverMPG
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Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #1 by GPGoverMPG » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:07 am

Cooling system should not be this hard. I had a 160* thermostat in the engine and the temps would go up to about 200*. I cleaned the system, installed a radiator out of a 1973 camper special, made a fan shroud, and the temp still went to 200*. I removed the thermostat and the temp still goes to about 190* over the same drive. It just takes longer to get hot. I pulled the plugs and they look good. I reduced initial timing to 14* before but still have the mechanical at 18*. My cruise speed is between 1800 and 2000 RPM over what we call hills in south Texas. Very little throttle change. I think it would get hotter if my trip was longer only going 12 miles at 50mph. Temp sensor for gage is in the stock location, rear of block under head. I did install new water pump, even removed it to make sure the impeller wasn't slipping and used my pressure tester to verify no system leaks. AAArg. Thanks for any advice
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

sdiesel
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #2 by sdiesel » Fri Oct 05, 2018 10:57 am

of course you verified your sending unit is accurate?use an infrared to check outside block and head temps.
temps at tank top and bottom.
hose collapse?
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

BigBlue94
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #3 by BigBlue94 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:40 am

Do you have a fan shroud or fan guard?
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

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bubba22349
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 12:23 pm

:hmmm: sounds like your engine is operating at normal Temps to me! Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #5 by Lazy JW » Fri Oct 05, 2018 1:28 pm

I run a 205° thermostat in my 81 F-150 all rear around :|
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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GPGoverMPG
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #6 by GPGoverMPG » Fri Oct 05, 2018 5:45 pm

Yes I do have a temp gun. When it was over 100* down here the temp was going to 210*. It should hold what ever temp is selected with the thermostat. I had a160* t-stat in it when it was going over 200*. I measured the radiator temp split and it was over 40*. And yes it's a shroud so it pulls air though the entire radiator core with a 5 blade fan without a clutch.
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

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bubba22349
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:11 pm

GPGoverMPG wrote:Yes I do have a temp gun. When it was over 100* down here the temp was going to 210*. It should hold what ever temp is selected with the thermostat. I had a160* t-stat in it when it was going over 200*. I measured the radiator temp split and it was over 40*. And yes it's a shroud so it pulls air though the entire radiator core with a 5 blade fan without a clutch.


:hmmm: Well the T Stat rating is only the temp that it is fully open, it has nothing to do with controling the engines operating temp other than helping the engine warm up faster. The engine also becomes more efficient at those higher temps. 210 isn't too hot either, as these engines were designed to run at 190 to 210 degrees as normal. In the end the ambient air temp, the radiators cooling effentcy, and cooling fan speed are what really controls the engines operating temp. Of those three items you can only do changes to the last two If you want to effect the operating temp of the engine. I.E use a 3, 4, or 5, row copper radiator or go to a big custom Aluminun radator, 7 blade fan or use an auxiliary electric fan with your existing fan. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #8 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:15 pm

I thought the T-stat rating was the "start-to-open" temp, not the fully open temp.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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bubba22349
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #9 by bubba22349 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:29 pm

FTF, I think the T Stat starts to open at 8 to 10 degrees before its rating. :shock: but I could also be wrong since its been a long time since I tested one in a pan of heated water with a thermometer. :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #10 by jason832 » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:48 pm

I have built 300, maybe 2 row small aluminum radiator, clutch fan, and no shroud with a fair gap between fan and rad. I have no issues.

Maybe its running very lean? Air stuck somewhere in the system? Blocked passages? Weak clutch on the fan? Bent fan blades?

Possibly you installed the wrong water pump some years turn different directions. (Some argue that doesn't matter)

Just ideas...

sdiesel
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #11 by sdiesel » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:00 pm

can be a trick to purge air from cooling on these engines
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

sdiesel
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #12 by sdiesel » Fri Oct 05, 2018 11:07 pm

t stats will begin 2 open at rated temps, and will fully open at higher temps maybe 15 degree F.

my ford has trouble with t stats. one way to tell is they will mimic head gasket symptoms in the radiator neck, percolating and gurgling at idle, often in conjunction with air lock in cooling sys.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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GPGoverMPG
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #13 by GPGoverMPG » Sat Oct 06, 2018 7:54 am

My concern is when I'm playing in the mud or rock crawling. Could have lots of throttle without much MPH if I can't control engine temps now what will happen then. I'm going to clean with cascade again and try another T-stat.
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

pmuller9
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #14 by pmuller9 » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:26 am

Are you running the Crane 500211 cam?
If so the initial timing needs to be around 20*.
Retarded timing creates more engine heat.

sdiesel
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #15 by sdiesel » Sat Oct 06, 2018 11:30 am

CASCADE:

no longer an effective chemical as the consumer version has the phosphate removed from the recipe.
the commercial cascade has phosphates but is a little harder to find. And at this writing im not sure these still contain the needed chemical.
the oxalic acid version found in wood bleaches works marginally better as do some other acids. citric, etc, even vinegar. (one gallon, added to coolant drive 1000 miles flush).
but you now have some very caustic solutions to deal with.

go through your engine again with fine attention to all the details
timing as paul says, temps checks on each cylinder, collapsing hoses, etc.head gaskets blocking cooling, air pockets ( build a bleeder into your heater hoses) bad radiator etc. is your sending unit faulty?
is the gauge the right resistance to the sending unit?
it cant be that complicated to source the trouble.


200 is a good temp to run this engine at. I am more concerned with oil temps on these engines when in a heavy bodied vehicle. I use a 460 adapter and cool the oil with a flat plate cooler. but i also use a 7.3 diesel radiator for coolant heat extraction and for capacity and because i can.

Eventually i would like to have oil temps in pan at exactly coolant temps of 195. and at next radiator rebuild will have a oil temp "adjuster installed in bottom tank. Thus oil travels through plate cooler to remove spikes in temp then into the radiator to stabilize at 195 then into pan. This also aids in warm up periods in cold climates. i can then experiment with oil vis. for the best weight. likely a diesel oil of 15 40,
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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GPGoverMPG
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #16 by GPGoverMPG » Sat Oct 06, 2018 1:45 pm

Still running stock cam with Chevy rockers. 14* initial with 18 mechanical. Tried lower octane fuel for it's faster burn, normally run 93. This motor has issues one of them is oil pressure. When the engine temps are under 180* I have about 25psi at idle. At 190* it's about 7 psi. I'm running aftermarket gages so I can can monitor it better. An oil cooler may be the right answer. Was thinking of using a trans cooler with an electric fuel pump. Pull the oil from the pan though the cooler and back to the pan. Should just speed up building new motor. I'm just learning allot with this one.
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #17 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Oct 06, 2018 8:06 pm

Try this:

https://alconox.com/alconox/


Used to clean:Healthcare instruments, laboratory ware, vacuum equipment, tissue culture ware, personal protective equipment, sampling apparatus, catheters, tubing, pipes, radioactive contaminated articles, optical parts, electronic components, pharmaceutical apparatus, cosmetics manufacturing equipment, metal castings, forgings and stampings, industrial parts, tanks and reactors. Authorized by USDA for use in federally inspected meat and poultry plants. Passes inhibitory residue test for water analysis. FDA certified.

Used to remove:Soil, grit, grime, buffing compound, slime, grease, oils, blood, tissue, salts, deposits, particulates, solvents, chemicals, radioisotopes, radioactive contaminations, silicon oils, mold release agents.

Surfaces cleaned:Corrosion inhibited, residue-free formulation recommended for glass, metal, stainless steel, porcelain, ceramic, plastic, rubber and fiberglass. Can be used on soft metals such as copper, aluminum, zinc and magnesium if rinsed promptly. Corrosion testing may be advisable.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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GPGoverMPG
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #18 by GPGoverMPG » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:37 am

I will thanks
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

sdiesel
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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #19 by sdiesel » Sun Oct 07, 2018 12:28 pm

alconex is a derivative of the Tri Sodium family of cleaners, specifically for food -hospital application.
The important ingredient in its many variants is Phosphate. I am told that the Trisodium phosphate commonly available is no longer a product containing phosphates. go figgure.



if your cooling system is really in sad shape, it might behove you to take rad. to shop for a make-over. a dip in the pool there might mean your radiator is "all tank and no core". meaning its time for a new one.

this just isn't a big problem. the cooling system is inadequate or the engine is producing too much heat, which directs you back to issue 1 inadequate cooling.

A curious note: i have socialized with freightliner engineers (boring, unless you enjoy jabbber about engineering) as freightliners are made here in this town.
the comments on cooling which they had trouble with a few years back is that size matters. I heard there can be too much radiator which carries its own problems into the equation. And Freightliner in efforts to reduce frontal area made the cooling system too small. Kenworth had a similar issue to contend with.
greater power with smaller frontal area.
Dimpled and louvered radiator passages and heat dissipation fins were the engineering controls created to meet this need. and maybe some other ideas i'm not privy to made it into the fix.

problem with trucks is that often truck engineers have to contend with designs of engine designers who have to contend with a huge variety of applications, not just trucks.
there is a lotta cool stuff going on down there at the Swan Island factory now that the germans are in control. i heard the other day that they are experimenting with carbon fiber frame rails, and of course electric power....

and of course the Mercedes diesels....
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: Engine temps are still going higher than I would like.

Post #20 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Oct 07, 2018 1:15 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:Try this:

https://alconox.com/alconox/

Its what Ford R&D Center uses to clean the cooling systems of their dynos at the Dearborn Dynamometer Laboratory.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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