Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry
rzcrisis, DoctorC, jamyers, Motorboy, fastpat, Silverback280, chad


<<< New Site Update >>>

Build the 300 or go V8?

Moderator: Mod Squad

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #1 by keethprince » Wed Dec 26, 2018 1:41 am

Im sure the title is cringe-worthy, however, id like some insight from people that know far more than me. Im building my 85 f150 into a mud truck with occasional cruising (nothing about 45mph). Its a 16" leaf sprung suspension lift running 46" deuce tires. Its on 1 ton ford axles with 5.38 gear ratio. Ox locker in the back and full spool in the front. Iv come to the crossroads of building the 300 i6 (my preferred method) but im not sure if its feasible to make it do what it needs to before crossing the price threshold of a well built V8. Im not above running race fuel if the compression gets that high. On another note controlling spark with a msd box or relatable will not go over well in the mud. I know the head is the limiting factor of these motors and putting bigger valves in them is an option but at how much of a price? Should i build a High compression i6 or go to a 351w or something along those lines? If building is a feasible option with price in mind an outline would be greatly appreciated. Id prefer to stay away from boost and as much electronics as possible for cleanliness and simple diagnosis. Thanks for the help! :beer:

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #2 by Max_Effort » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:12 pm

keethprince wrote:Im sure the title is cringe-worthy, however, id like some insight from people that know far more than me. Im building my 85 f150 into a mud truck with occasional cruising (nothing about 45mph). Its a 16" leaf sprung suspension lift running 46" deuce tires. Its on 1 ton ford axles with 5.38 gear ratio. Ox locker in the back and full spool in the front. Iv come to the crossroads of building the 300 i6 (my preferred method) but im not sure if its feasible to make it do what it needs to before crossing the price threshold of a well built V8. Im not above running race fuel if the compression gets that high. On another note controlling spark with a msd box or relatable will not go over well in the mud. I know the head is the limiting factor of these motors and putting bigger valves in them is an option but at how much of a price? Should i build a High compression i6 or go to a 351w or something along those lines? If building is a feasible option with price in mind an outline would be greatly appreciated. Id prefer to stay away from boost and as much electronics as possible for cleanliness and simple diagnosis. Thanks for the help! :beer:


How much power do you think you need?
Wheeling in mud or bounty holes?

sdiesel
Registered User
Posts: 727
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #3 by sdiesel » Wed Dec 26, 2018 4:16 pm

cringe worthy indeed!
heavens.....
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

User avatar
GPGoverMPG
Registered User
Posts: 245
Joined: Sun Apr 02, 2017 11:59 am
Location: South central texas

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #4 by GPGoverMPG » Thu Dec 27, 2018 8:35 am

It's a tough question. I was in the same fix and went with the six. Not done yet but the decision was made to be different and hear the old six spun up in the mud. I could have freshened up my tri-power FE 428 for the money I'm spending on the six. I did decide to use the FE in some kind of open engine altered. I also should have switched the np435 I'm running for a c6 with a manual valve body. The torque converter would have helped the six deal with the gear changes. The shift lever moves so far in my truck that the wheel speed falls off before I can get the next gear (current near stock motor). Especially the 2 3 change maybe I need to make a short throw shifter for the np435.
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
2014 SHO

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #5 by Max_Effort » Thu Dec 27, 2018 9:31 am

The OP was comparing 300 to Windsor V8.

If you look at some pmuller9 threads, 300 hp around 5500 rpm is what is reasonable with a well ported head and supporting components.

The Windsor V8 factory heads aren't much better than a 300 head is. Fords goals for the Windsor weren't performance. You have to go to the 335, 385 or FE to find performance. What the advantage is with the Windsor V8 is plenty of aftermarket support. If you are willing to buy aftermarket heads, you can make a whole lot of power.

Power never comes cheap tho. The old saying is "speed cost money. How fast do you want to spend "?

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #6 by keethprince » Fri Dec 28, 2018 12:46 am

I'm sorry i just noticed anyone answered, im not getting notifications. But, I'm going to do my best to address everyone. First off, just the usual deep South mud pits. Not any actual bounty holes or anything that deep. Also, I to have the np435 and the np208 transfer case. I'd like to keep the np435, however the t case will likely not live long. Max effort, that was where I was stuck. I know that the 300 isn't ever going to be a nasty motor. And I don't want to spend thousands getting one off head made. I could spend probably 5g on a 351 and make 500 horse reliably. But the 300 is next to unkillable and the np435. The 351 jas all kinds of aftermarket support where the 300 doesnt really. I'm not sure of the power I actually need to spin those tires at a high rate of speed in the mud without bogging. If I go 300, bigger valves (si) port and polish the head. Flat top pistons mill the head offy single plane holley truck avenger carb headers and dui distributor big cam head studs and supporting things like rockers and lifters. The 351 I would go after market heads. Forged rotating assembly. Nasty cam. Studs and gurtle. Big single plane and supporting stuff build it to spin up in the rpm range and hold it. But do i need that much power ? Do i sacrifice reliability for power or am I doing that at all. Such hard questions :bang:

User avatar
broncr
VIP Member
Posts: 1092
Joined: Sun Apr 13, 2003 1:33 am
Location: Colorado

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #7 by broncr » Fri Dec 28, 2018 11:26 am

No need for a "one off head" for our 300-6's. Check out the thread: fordsix.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77978

The JR Head (available NOW) looks like it will be capable of 300+ HP. Dyno results should be coming within a month or so.

The SR (available soon) is expected to be capable of supporting ~425HP.

The Aluminum crossflow head (also coming soon - just after the SR) might hit 600 HP (NA).


Do some more reading around here. You can get just about anything for the 300 that you can get for a 351.
Last edited by broncr on Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:50 pm, edited 5 times in total.
'82 FSP Bronco. Just about every mod ever mentioned. ( Too much to list - or remember...)

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3359
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #8 by pmuller9 » Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:05 pm

The main reason for using the 300 six over the V8 is because you want to compete against the V8s for embarrassment sake or you are in a six racing class.
Without question it will cost more to build the 300 six to the same power level as the 351.

The SR ported big valve EQ iron head will support 400+ HP with a Bullet billet roller cam.
A flat top piston will give you a 12:1 compression ratio and more if the head is milled.

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #9 by keethprince » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:36 pm

Wait so they're making a aluminum head for the 300? If so that settles the debate 300 all the way. And what is the ported sr big valve eq head? I knew they made aluminum heads for the smaller 6s but this is the first wind iv caught of one for the big six

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #10 by Max_Effort » Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:19 pm

keethprince wrote:Wait so they're making a aluminum head for the 300? If so that settles the debate 300 all the way. And what is the ported sr big valve eq head? I knew they made aluminum heads for the smaller 6s but this is the first wind iv caught of one for the big six


They are heads that some members from this site are porting, reworking and making available for sale

Jr and Sr are different porting levels of an aftermarket replacement cast iron head (Engine Quest, AKA EQ , casting]

The aluminum head is made from sectioned and welded GM LS heads.

This long thread discusses the development.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=77978

There is another aluminum head being worked on, it’s a long term project and seems to be a ways off from what I read in this thread.
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=45968

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6090
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #11 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:57 pm

My "best bang for the buck" vote:

built 460 (or 514)
built C6
High stall 10" converter (in the 2500 - 4000 range)
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

motorsickle1130
Registered User
Posts: 35
Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2018 11:43 pm
Location: OrEgone
Contact:

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #12 by motorsickle1130 » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:10 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:My "best bang for the buck" vote:

built 460 (or 514)
built C6
High stall 10" converter (in the 2500 - 4000 range)


+1

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1110
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #13 by drag-200stang » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:04 am

Best bang for the buck would be a junkyard LS with a turbo :shock:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

Fordman75
Registered User
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:43 am
Location: Southern, Minnesota

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #14 by Fordman75 » Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:01 pm

drag-200stang wrote:Best bang for the buck would be a junkyard LS with a turbo :shock:


Yea especially if you like breaking rods and making blocks ventilated!! :lol:
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #15 by Max_Effort » Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:13 pm

Fordman75 wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:Best bang for the buck would be a junkyard LS with a turbo :shock:


Yea especially if you like breaking rods and making blocks ventilated!! :lol:


GM talk on a Ford forum goes over like a fart in church!

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #16 by keethprince » Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:16 am

So what if I went turbo? Putting bigger valves in the head and p&p will happen. Would it make the power without blowing its self to pieces?

Fordman75
Registered User
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:43 am
Location: Southern, Minnesota

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #17 by Fordman75 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:07 am

keethprince wrote:So what if I went turbo? Putting bigger valves in the head and p&p will happen. Would it make the power without blowing its self to pieces?


Yes, if you have the build & tune right it will survive no problem. If the tune is wrong then you'll have a melt down, literally.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

Phase3
Registered User
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:34 pm
Location: Pittsburgh pa

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #18 by Phase3 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 11:28 am

motorsickle1130 wrote:
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:My "best bang for the buck" vote:

built 460 (or 514)
built C6
High stall 10" converter (in the 2500 - 4000 range)


+1


Twice the fun for deep mudding
1996 f150 turbo 4.9 OBD2 M5OD 4x4 12 lbs on 93
1997 f350 351w cclb

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #19 by keethprince » Tue Jan 08, 2019 11:04 pm

I'd like to go big block but I want to keep the np435. And finding a bellhousing for a big block is next to impossible.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 429
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #20 by Max_Effort » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:36 pm

keethprince wrote:I'd like to go big block but I want to keep the np435. And finding a bellhousing for a big block is next to impossible.

You can use a 351/400M bellhousing.

keethprince
Registered User
Posts: 6
Joined: Sun Oct 07, 2018 2:14 pm

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #21 by keethprince » Thu Jan 10, 2019 10:47 pm

Do you have the casting number for one? Also, do they still use the hydraulic clutch?

Fordman75
Registered User
Posts: 999
Joined: Fri Nov 08, 2002 2:43 am
Location: Southern, Minnesota

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #22 by Fordman75 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:14 pm

If you want a BBF bell that uses the hydraulic slave you will need to find a mid 80's 460 bell out of a F250/F350. I believe they started in 84 or 85 ( maybe as early as 83 ) and went thru 87 or 88. Basically if it's a mid to late 80's 460 with a grany low 4spd ( no OD ) , it will have the bell you need. It may take some searching. They are still out there, I've had a few of them.

And if you can't find the 460 bell I believe you could also make the 6.9/7.3L IDI diesel 4spd bell housing work. They aren't the exact same but close enough to be workable.
Ted

54 Ford F100/F150 4x4
300, NP435 4spd, NP205 transfercase

Phase3
Registered User
Posts: 86
Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2018 9:34 pm
Location: Pittsburgh pa

Re: Build the 300 or go V8?

Post #23 by Phase3 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:31 pm

I think i have one of those bells. Its from an 85 1 ton with 4 speed with a 460. If you want it pm me an offer. Have no idea what its worth but i might have a second one that is welded also
1996 f150 turbo 4.9 OBD2 M5OD 4x4 12 lbs on 93
1997 f350 351w cclb

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: AbandonedBronco, old28racer, sdiesel, Shorty and 27 guests