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about self guided rockers

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johns3524
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about self guided rockers

Post #1 by johns3524 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:38 am

Hi there, it's been a while.. Has anyone tried some type of self guided rocker when converting to screw in studs? I'm considering doing some work on a spare head and trying something like that to replace pedastals w/o using guide plates.

JS
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

pmuller9
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:55 am

Measure the distance from the center of the valve guide to the center of the bolt hole for the pedestal mount bolts in the head.
old28racer measured his head at 1.575" which means you would need a 1.6" long rocker.

AFAIK the self aligning rockers are for small block engines and the rocker length is too short.
Let us know what you find.

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johns3524
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #3 by johns3524 » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:06 am

thanks for your input man. Somehwere I read about a BBC rocker IIRC that was stamped, but had little dimples on the tip to keep it centered on the valve. I cant find the article now. Ive heard BBC rockers are used in a stud ball arrangemwent hence my interest..still looking.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

Max_Effort
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #4 by Max_Effort » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:37 pm

johns3524 wrote:thanks for your input man. Somehwere I read about a BBC rocker IIRC that was stamped, but had little dimples on the tip to keep it centered on the valve. I cant find the article now. Ive heard BBC rockers are used in a stud ball arrangemwent hence my interest..still looking.

All BBC's came with pushrod guideplates. Later SBC's have self aligning rockers.

pmuller9
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #5 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 12:56 pm

Found these while I was searching for something else. I don't know anything about them.
https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_truc ... lsrc=aw.ds

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johns3524
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #6 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 4:41 pm

Interesting post pmuller. I was talking to my "guy" that would machine my head for the studs..he says "he'd rather make plates than use self guided rokers"..He's a chevy man too and has experience with the new vortec sbc rockers evidentley. If I have him do the studs which he can, I guess a search for a decent rocker would be in order to replace the pedastals.

I guess if I follow his advice to not use self guiding rockers, I need to find a rocker that would be known as "best build practice" in my choice for fully adjustable rockers..so any thoughts on this approache would be interesting...

Im not needing a roller rocker...I dont plan on rpm's above 3k

pmuller: Ive reviewed your posts, glad to see you are still on this forum..always good input..along with many others of course

regards to all.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:24 pm

A few questions first if you don't mind

Are you using the EFI head?
Which intake and exhaust valves?
Which Crane cam are you using?
Is this a naturally aspirated build?

You talked about a roller cam a while back. Is that still an interest?

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #8 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:32 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Found these while I was searching for something else. I don't know anything about them.
https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_truc ... lsrc=aw.ds

Those are for very early 240 / 300s as I pictured in my article in Superford 10/'86. I could not find that previously posted article so I could not picture them. If you decide to use them be sure the tip of the valve protrudes enough above the keeper and retainer so as not to interfere with them.


Anybody know where that article post went?
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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johns3524
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #9 by johns3524 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 7:53 pm

pmuller9 wrote:A few questions first if you don't mind

Are you using the EFI head?
Which intake and exhaust valves?
Which Crane cam are you using?
Is this a naturally aspirated build?

You talked about a roller cam a while back. Is that still an interest?


On my curretmnt ride Im using an efi head, one of those Heavy-duty castings that were available for a while..

When I was last here I had an interest in another engine, even turbo'd .then life got me busy for a while. At that time I was curious about a roller cam..but unless they have gotten plentiful ..probably not now.

Im embarrassed that Im not sure which crane cam im suing.. I was told a "mild" upgrade" form my machinist guy who installed it along with the crank and new pistons to my bored block.

It has been a good running motor for about 15k miles now and I have no complaints other than an occasional lifter clack when warming up.

Ive considered replacing this EFI head with the original 86 carbed head and also using the log manifolds maybe utilizing an HD xhaust From Stevens if that has proven to be an option with the stock intake.

I'm only after long term reliability and usability not performance on this block.

Once I've removed the EFI head I mmay build another motor from the ground up using the head and Clifford etc..and gathering the parts for a future build will be more important.

Whatever I do I want to be able to adjust the rockers...chevy style period

I appreciate the input..this is all for future projects sake..and again for setting my process for new builds.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #10 by pmuller9 » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:16 pm

There are NO non-roller rockers that have the pushrod adjusting screw and locknut that I know of.
The BBC and BBF adjustable roller rockers are expensive.

You can buy the rocker adjustment screws and lock nuts separately from the rockers.
Then you can drill out and weld a nut to the pushrod end of the Ford stamped steel rocker that will except the adjuster screw and locknut.

The EQ EFI head is a good head and I would continue to use the pedestal mount rockers so you won't need a pushrod guide plate and modify the rockers for the adjustment screw.

If you still decide to use stud mounted rockers and your machinist wants to make pushrod guide plates, he needs to know that the center to center on the guide plates for the pushrod slots is more than the centers between valve stems or between the rocker studs and not to make the plates to those dimensions.
The valve centers are about 1.906" but the lifter spacing is around 2.00" so the pushrods angle inward as they approach the rocker arms.
I got good alignment with 1.940" guide plate slot centers.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw9cogn2posft ... 2.JPG?dl=0

Unless the top of the valve guides are modified, the EFI head doesn't except valve lifts over .500" with the stock length 4.750" valve.
Based on that you probably have the Crane 503901 cam because the rest of the Crane cams have too much exhaust valve lift which is unnecessary.
I won't get into the details here except to say that the Crane cam line-up for the Ford six is antiquated.

The EFI exhaust manifolds outperform the HD exhaust log manifold so don't switch.

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #11 by johns3524 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 1:32 am

pmuller9 wrote:There are NO non-roller rockers that have the pushrod adjusting screw and locknut that I know of.
The BBC and BBF adjustable roller rockers are expensive.

You can buy the rocker adjustment screws and lock nuts separately from the rockers.
Then you can drill out and weld a nut to the pushrod end of the Ford stamped steel rocker that will except the adjuster screw and locknut.

The EQ EFI head is a good head and I would continue to use the pedestal mount rockers so you won't need a pushrod guide plate and modify the rockers for the adjustment screw.

If you still decide to use stud mounted rockers and your machinist wants to make pushrod guide plates, he needs to know that the center to center on the guide plates for the pushrod slots is more than the centers between valve stems or between the rocker studs and not to make the plates to those dimensions.
The valve centers are about 1.906" but the lifter spacing is around 2.00" so the pushrods angle inward as they approach the rocker arms.
I got good alignment with 1.940" guide plate slot centers.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw9cogn2posft ... 2.JPG?dl=0

Unless the top of the valve guides are modified, the EFI head doesn't except valve lifts over .500" with the stock length 4.750" valve.
Based on that you probably have the Crane 503901 cam because the rest of the Crane cams have too much exhaust valve lift which is unnecessary.
I won't get into the details here except to say that the Crane cam line-up for the Ford six is antiquated.

The EFI exhaust manifolds outperform the HD exhaust log manifold so don't switch.


Well okay, copy all of that..

My 300-6 is doing ok in my Bronco at this point. When I consider all of the other options for a vehicle like mine and what engine to put in it, this 300 is probably as good as it gets.

Ever since I’ve owned it My only wish has been, I wish Ford had developed a roller cam, and along with that done away with the pedestal rockers. With that being said, it is what it is and probably will last longer than my interest in owning for sure, or at least when I can no longer drive...whichever comes first.

So I guess the answer is, no self guiding rockers, no roller cam, and yes to the ped rockers. If that’s the best we can get...I can live with it...

Have fun with all of you projects all...

JS
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #12 by pmuller9 » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:49 am

You can have anything you want if you are willing to spend the money.

Bullet Cams will grind you a billet roller cam for around $650.
They are one of the sources for roller blanks so the entire operation is done in house.
It would be fun to have a high lift short duration cam for max low end torque and fuel mileage.

The Ford 460 V8 roller lifters with tie bars have about the same lifter bore spacing as the 300 six and will work.

I still prefer steel roller rockers if the valve lift is near .500" for reduced friction and valve guide longevity.
Here is the pedestal mount head conversion I did with Comp 1.6 ratio roller rockers and guide plates.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlwsfdl82ziie ... 4.JPG?dl=0

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #13 by Max_Effort » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:15 am

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
pmuller9 wrote:Found these while I was searching for something else. I don't know anything about them.
https://www.macsautoparts.com/ford_truc ... lsrc=aw.ds

Those are for very early 240 / 300s as I pictured in my article in Superford 10/'86. I could not find that previously posted article so I could not picture them. If you decide to use them be sure the tip of the valve protrudes enough above the keeper and retainer so as not to interfere with them.


Anybody know where that article post went?


I see a cast rocker listed in the valve train catalogs. Now I know what they are!

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johns3524
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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #14 by johns3524 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 10:11 pm

pmuller9 wrote:You can have anything you want if you are willing to spend the money.

Bullet Cams will grind you a billet roller cam for around $650.
They are one of the sources for roller blanks so the entire operation is done in house.
It would be fun to have a high lift short duration cam for max low end torque and fuel mileage.

The Ford 460 V8 roller lifters with tie bars have about the same lifter bore spacing as the 300 six and will work.

I still prefer steel roller rockers if the valve lift is near .500" for reduced friction and valve guide longevity.
Here is the pedestal mount head conversion I did with Comp 1.6 ratio roller rockers and guide plates.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/dlwsfdl82ziie ... 4.JPG?dl=0


That’s a good looking install Paul. Have you ever considered marketing a set of guide plates as shown? It seems to be that guide plates and studs are the best solution as you’ve shown. Good job.
86' Bronco, 300-6, .030 over, Crane cam, Cloyes gears, Clifford Intake, Autolite 2100 C3 manual choke, EFI head & manifolds>walker2n1>shorty Magniflow>, Duraspark II, TFI coil, Napa blue box, NP435, NP208F, 3.50's-9"& Dana44ttb, factory a/c

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:13 pm

johns3524 wrote:That’s a good looking install Paul. Have you ever considered marketing a set of guide plates as shown? It seems to be that guide plates and studs are the best solution as you’ve shown. Good job.

Thanks
Not enough market but I did a set for" Old28racer" and can certainly do other sets as the need arises.

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Re: about self guided rockers

Post #16 by guhfluh » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:03 pm

The guy with the rear mounted turbo 300 truck used self guided roller rockers for a 409 chebby on his build. I'm guessing for the 3/8" stud mounts. They are rollers though. Scorpion and Pro Comp come to mind, but memory's failing.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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