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First time engine build Ford 300

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Angelking
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First time engine build Ford 300

Post #1 by Angelking » Mon Feb 18, 2019 12:16 pm

I had already posted one screw up in another thread. I am going to put everything else in this thread for the sake of order.

This engine is going into a dirt roadster themed 23 T- Bucket. Have been building about two years now and just getting in to the engine.
I got this engine from a junkyard. It had about 200,000 miles on it and the oil gunk inside supported that figure. The block had to be bored 030 over to clean it up. My screw up with the #5 bearing had already been dealt with. Now, the new piston rings have been sitting in a box for about two years. Of course, I opened the box without noticing which rings were in what compartment in the box. The oil control rings I have id'd but the the top and bottom compression ring I have not. They all have a dot so I know that side goes up. Some rings have a chamfer on them so I assume that would i.d. it as a top or bottom ring. So who can say which is which? I have also attached a pic of the car so you can see the project at its current state.

Image

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:47 pm

Thanks for posting the photo. Great Project!

The second ring has the inside bevel.
If one of the rings has a coating on the outside edge it will be the top ring

What brand rings are they?

Please post a picture of the rings showing the end view with the dots facing up?

Then we will need to talk about setting the ring end gap.

Please do not order a cam yet until know what your compression ratio is.
You do not want to end up with a detonation problem on regular gas.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #3 by Angelking » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:26 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Thanks for posting the photo. Great Project!

The second ring has the inside bevel.
If one of the rings has a coating on the outside edge it will be the top ring

What brand rings are they?

Please post a picture of the rings showing the end view with the dots facing up?

Then we will need to talk about setting the ring end gap.

Please do not order a cam yet until know what your compression ratio is.
You do not want to end up with a detonation problem on regular gas.


They are Sealed Power #E-229K 30........ attached are 2 pics, one showing the rectangular end and the other showing the champhered? end on the inside bottom left(facing piston). I do have a question, the book that I downloaded from here a while back says the ring gap should be between 0.010 to 0.020. It does say that should be for a standard bore. Since this bored 030 over should I increase or decrease the ring gap.......Wish I had read this close when putting in the main bearing.
Image
Image

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:58 pm

The inside beveled ring is the second ring

The Spec for your rings in a moderate power engine build is .004" per inch of bore diameter for the top ring and .005" for the second ring.
The change in bore from 4.00" to 4.030" doesn't have a significant change in ring end gap.
I use .018" for the top ring and .022" for the second ring.

You must also check the end gap on the two oil rings.

Also check the depth of the ring to be sure it is less than the depth of the ring groove in the piston.
I had a depth problem with the oil rings on a set of Total Seal rings where it wouldn't let the piston go into the cylinder.

The following is from Speed Pro.

SPEED-PRO PISTON RINGS - INSTALLATION GUIDELINES
RING END GAP RECOMMENDATION GUIDE (FOR 4.000 INCH BORE)

Speed Pro Top Rings (ductile iron, 4" bore) 4.000" Example Minimum Gap Factor
Moderate Performance .016 - .018 (.004 per inch of bore diameter)
Drag Racing, Oval Track .018 - .020 (.0045 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Street .020 - .022 (.005 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Drag .028 - .030 (.007 per inch of bore diameter)
Supercharged .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)

Speed Pro 2nd Rings (cast Iron, 4" bore) 4.000" Example Minimum Gap Factor
Moderate Performance .020 - .022 (.005 per inch of bore diameter)
Drag Racing, Oval Track .022 - .024 (.0055 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Street .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)
Nitrous Oxide - Drag .028 - .030 (.007 per inch of bore diameter)
Supercharged .024 - .026 (.006 per inch of bore diameter)
Last edited by pmuller9 on Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #5 by Angelking » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:03 pm

The oil ring gap from the manual is:0.015 to 0.055. Have done 2 pistons so far all 4 oil rings have been exactly 0.024.

And Thanks for the info on the compression rings.... very helpful


Thanks

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:07 pm

Have you checked the 1st and 2nd ring end gap yet?
I'm Just curious

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #7 by Angelking » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:10 pm

I just checked the 2nd ring gap and it is 0.013 The 300 manual calls for 0.010 - 0.020 which is where I am at now. The guide in the post above states 0.020 - 0.022 Which would you use?

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #8 by pmuller9 » Mon Feb 18, 2019 4:29 pm

Use the specs from the ring manufacturer.

.016" to .018" for the top
.020" to .022" for the second ring.

This is the spec most of us use for any 4.00" bore cast piston.

KB pistons are one of the exceptions.

Take one ring and try it in all six cylinders to see if the cylinder bores are all the same.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #9 by Angelking » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:24 pm

Yea, I screwed up and took too much off. Ordering another set... have plenty to practice with now....

SM

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #10 by Angelking » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:48 pm

Got the pistons ringed and replaced the damaged bearing. It wasn't so painful after all.


SM

jason832
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #11 by jason832 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:13 pm

The e-229k rings are not file to fit I believe. Supposed to be able to drop them in and go...

I built my 4.000 bore 300 with h519p pistons at my college with the head engine teacher. He was baffled about the different rings. He went and googled them and came back and said it all makes sense. We threw the engine together, Its been driven a hard 50k km at least no problems. I never checked the ring gaps I'm curious to see what they come with.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #12 by Angelking » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:48 pm

I had to file them to get proper clearance. They were almost closed up when first trial fitted. I got one of those ring filers from Summit, works great.

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #13 by pmuller9 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 4:53 pm

Do you have a way to check the main and rod bearing clearances?

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #14 by Angelking » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:35 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Do you have a way to check the main and rod bearing clearances?


I have a dial bore guage and micrometers


SM

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #15 by Angelking » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:28 am

Looking to order an oil pump and pickup tube. Summit has two from Melling. One with a .469 tube and one with .500 tube. Which would be the best for my engine. Don't know what the stock tube diameter is since it didn't come with one.

Thanks

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #16 by pmuller9 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:34 am

The .469" pickup tube is for the center sump oil pan.
The .500" pickup tube is for the rear sump oil pan.

Which oil pan are you going to use?

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #17 by Angelking » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:44 am

pmuller9 wrote:The .469" pickup tube is for the center sump oil pan.
The .500" pickup tube is for the rear sump oil pan.

Which oil pan are you going to use?


The stock pan so I need the .500 tube.. glad I asked...

THank you

SM

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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #18 by pmuller9 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:32 am

You should have a main cap bolt for #5 cap that has a stud on top for the oil pump pickup bracket.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #19 by Angelking » Thu Feb 21, 2019 11:25 am

pmuller9 wrote:You should have a main cap bolt for #5 cap that has a stud on top for the oil pump pickup bracket.


I have ARP studs so will have to adapt it.

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #20 by pmuller9 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:13 pm

Angelking wrote:I have ARP studs so will have to adapt it.
SM

The surprises never end.
The ARP stud does not clear the oil pump housing.
The stud is ground flush with the nut and the oil pump housing is notched to clear.
I also added an .060" thick aluminum spacer under the pump so I didn't have to grind as much on the pump.

On the next 300 I will use a longer hex drive from one of the V8s, make a thick enough spacer so the oil pump housing doesn't need to be notched and modify the oil pickup to regain the proper pickup to oil pan clearance.

Image

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #21 by Angelking » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:40 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
Angelking wrote:I have ARP studs so will have to adapt it.
SM

The surprises never end.


Image



Tell me about it.... :-)

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bubba22349
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #22 by bubba22349 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 2:53 pm

Love it, it's going to be a nice Little 23 T Roadster! :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #23 by Angelking » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:41 pm

bubba22349 wrote:Love it, it's going to be a nice Little 23 T Roadster! :thumbup: :nod:


Thank you sir.... going to have a dirt track car flavor to it.

SM

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #24 by Angelking » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:23 pm

Looking at either the Offenhauser 6019DP or the Ofy 6227C. Will run a small Holly 4 barrel initially. Engine is being totally rebuilt. Is bored 030 over. Will have a mild cam and a header....... thoughts?

Thanks

SM

pmuller9
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #25 by pmuller9 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:03 pm

The DP forces you to run the carburetor sideways with the fuel bowls over the rising heat from the exhaust manifolds.
There have been complaints of the sideways orientation affecting carb operation during turns.
The runner divider does decrease the area and may limit upper rpm power.

Get the "C"

Before you choose a cam you need to know what the compression ratio will be so you don't end up with detonation problems.
Please don't use the detonation prone Comp catalog cams or the Crane antiquated long exhaust duration cams.

Here is the catalog cam list.
viewtopic.php?p=613117#p613117

Have you installed the pistons yet?

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #26 by Angelking » Sun Feb 24, 2019 10:23 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The DP forces you to run the carburetor sideways with the fuel bowls over the rising heat from the exhaust manifolds.
There have been complaints of the sideways orientation affecting carb operation during turns.
The runner divider does decrease the area and may limit upper rpm power.

Get the "C"

Before you choose a cam you need to know what the compression ratio will be so you don't end up with detonation problems.
Please don't use the detonation prone Comp catalog cams or the Crane antiquated long exhaust duration cams.

Here is the catalog cam list.
viewtopic.php?p=613117#p613117

Have you installed the pistons yet?



Thank you. I will order the C. Am waiting on the crank to come back from the machine shop. Should be here Tuesday. Don't know yet if the crank needs any grinding before ai order the rod bearings. Either way, the bottom end should be put together by the end of the week, baring no more delays. The pistons are ringed, just waiting on the crank.

SM

Angelking
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Re: First time engine build Ford 300

Post #27 by Angelking » Wed Feb 27, 2019 11:54 am

Got the crank back. The rod journals were bored 010. so have ordered the correct rod bearings.



SM

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