Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2018 Contributors:
StarDiero75, curts56, DannyG, B RON CO, wsa111, Captainslow42, falconcritter
Econoline, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, 95FordFleetside, turbo6, Max_Effort, WorldChampGramp
cr_bobcat, C.S.Designs, pmuller9, gus91326, rwbrooks50, rocklord, drag-200stang, Big64my79Effie, CNC-Dude, gb500

2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry

Unknown->> M.Ketterer, T.Smith, J.Myers, P.McIntire - Please PM me (1966Mustang) and lemme know who you are!

Stuck valve locks

Moderator: Mod Squad

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Stuck valve locks

Post #1 by Mdixon300f100 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:20 pm

Does anyone have any tricks for removing stuck valve locks? I’m trying to disassemble my head for cleaning and inspection and I cannot get these valve locks to free up. With the valve spring compressed with a lever I made up I cant even push the valve out of the retainer with my free hand. Any ideas? Aside from a $150 clamp type valve compressor...

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 8:55 pm

You need some under the head of the valve to keep it from moving downward.
Then apply pressure with your depressor tool.
You may need to put something like a socket over the valve stem, on top of the depressor tool and hit it with a hammer to get the locks to release.

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #3 by Mdixon300f100 » Tue Mar 19, 2019 9:08 pm

I’m thinking about welding a piece of 1” pipe onto a c clamp tomorrow, and using that to break the varnish that’s got them stuck. I did watch a video on the socket and hammer trick though. I didn’t think they would be stuck that tight, even though we use taper contacts on all the props and couplings on the boats. :duh:
That takes 50 tons and 3 million btu to pop an 12” shaft... :rolflmao:

88F15088
Registered User
Posts: 179
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 12:24 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #4 by 88F15088 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 1:49 am

Big c-clamp and a socket should be all you need. Put the socket over the spring and use a big c-clamp to press on the valve and socket. You will hear a pop when it frees up, then you can use a regular valve spring compressor to remove the locks/keepers.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #5 by Max_Effort » Wed Mar 20, 2019 10:45 am

Just take a deep socket and a hammer, (soft face dead blow if you have one) and rap each retainer. They come apart after that. You can also remove all the locks with that method if you smack them hard.

There are also tools made that remove and install locks that way.

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #6 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:14 pm

I use a brass hammer at a 45 degree oblique angle on the edge of the retainers.
Always works for me - even with very high load roller cam springs.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #7 by Mdixon300f100 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 8:45 pm

All these suggestions about directly hitting the retainers definitely causes some anxiety for me, but I guess this stuff isn’t as delicate as I thought. Thanks for the input everyone, I should be able to get the valves out tomorrow night.

Im looking forward to getting some measurements and some inspection. I got the ok from work to dye check there. Saves some cash, which is nice. I’m thinking about inconel exhaust valves and ceramic coating in the combustion chambers. Anyone have any experience with TBCs in combustion chambers? Is it worth it? I found a company that does it for about $300, I think it’s good insurance for the intended use of this head...

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #8 by pmuller9 » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:30 pm

You can reduce the heat transfer to the combustion chamber by making the chamber surface smooth.
It is more important to reduce heat transfer to the piston top by using a ceramic heat barrier there.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #9 by Max_Effort » Wed Mar 20, 2019 9:57 pm

Mdixon300f100 wrote:All these suggestions about directly hitting the retainers definitely causes some anxiety for me, but I guess this stuff isn’t as delicate as I thought. Thanks for the input everyone, I should be able to get the valves out tomorrow night.

Im looking forward to getting some measurements and some inspection. I got the ok from work to dye check there. Saves some cash, which is nice. I’m thinking about inconel exhaust valves and ceramic coating in the combustion chambers. Anyone have any experience with TBCs in combustion chambers? Is it worth it? I found a company that does it for about $300, I think it’s good insurance for the intended use of this head...


Is this for a turbocharged engine? The tech line gold coat TL-PTG holds up best.
I recommend Clay Whitt at TPIS https://www.tpis.com

sdiesel
Registered User
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #10 by sdiesel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:46 am

with hammers!
a word of caution.
I witnessed a seasoned heavy equip mech, an old moss covered bugger, knock a tooth out cause the fool had his head directly over the valve.
the spring sent that two faced dead blow right back up lick-dy split.
lost a tooth , bloodied some gums and turned the air blue.
a dam lucky thing there was not a human obstacle in the path of that hammer as it came whizzing through the air headed for the far side of the shop.

I could contain my mirth only with greatest difficulty, I headed for the exit on the pretense of getting help, when in truth the cigarette he had in his lip, remained in place throughout the whole show. I could hold my composure no longer.
that dam cig went along for the whole ride.
I'm inclined to believe he fergot he had it in his mouth

but I was just a kid.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #11 by Mdixon300f100 » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:59 am

Max_Effort wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:All these suggestions about directly hitting the retainers definitely causes some anxiety for me, but I guess this stuff isn’t as delicate as I thought. Thanks for the input everyone, I should be able to get the valves out tomorrow night.

Im looking forward to getting some measurements and some inspection. I got the ok from work to dye check there. Saves some cash, which is nice. I’m thinking about inconel exhaust valves and ceramic coating in the combustion chambers. Anyone have any experience with TBCs in combustion chambers? Is it worth it? I found a company that does it for about $300, I think it’s good insurance for the intended use of this head...


Is this for a turbocharged engine? The tech line gold coat TL-PTG holds up best.
I recommend Clay Whitt at TPIS https://www.tpis.com


Yes that’s the goal

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6834
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #12 by xctasy » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 am

Ceramic, zirconia and henium (Heany Industries) are coatings that isolate one aspect of heat transfer. The age old arguments apply. After 100 drag passes, 1000 or 5000 miles of streat duty, does the chamber or piston texture still behave the same.In the case of polished chambers, it'll do a good job years after. In the case of a coating, probably not. The detonation resistance drops over time, and that can be objectively measured with just a couple of knock sensors dialed into the 4" bore knock frequency for a wedge head.All else being equal, improved knock resistance is part chamber texture, part mixture motion (SAE Paddle wheel RPM at given lifts), and it varies with MTBE ,Tetra etyl, or other petroleum precipitates.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

sdiesel
Registered User
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #13 by sdiesel » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:12 am

go deeper please into the knock sensor dial in.
for years I have asked on here to get some life into a discussion about knock sensors. not much has come of it
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

User avatar
xctasy
VIP Member
Posts: 6834
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 10:40 am
Location: PO Box 7072 Dunedin 9011,South Island, NEW ZEALAND
Contact:

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #14 by xctasy » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:58 am

Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

sdiesel
Registered User
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #15 by sdiesel » Sat Mar 23, 2019 12:08 pm

thank u for this.
apparently the 4.9 had a knock sensor that would feasibly retrofit to my earlier engine with edis. mjolt, or Msquirt.
with propane, and huge advance.
but where on the 6 was this knock sensor,
I guess I have to find a newer truck to tear into.

any help is a huge plus.
the info u graciously offered earlier is a big bite, and will have to be understood within context
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #16 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sat Mar 23, 2019 1:45 pm

I think there was a change to the block casting. I think the front oil galley pipe tap was converted to a blind hole with the metric threads for the knock sensor.

Knock sensor placement is part science, part experimental witchcraft, based on finding the various nodes of the myriad components' frequencies that generate noise and minimizing their background noise effect so you can get a good clean signal to the sensor. Not a simple quest.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

sdiesel
Registered User
Posts: 677
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:33 am
Location: NW Oregon,Buxton currently

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #17 by sdiesel » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:30 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:I think there was a change to the block casting. I think the front oil galley pipe tap was converted to a blind hole with the metric threads for the knock sensor.

Knock sensor placement is part science, part experimental witchcraft, based on finding the various nodes of the myriad components' frequencies that generate noise and minimizing their background noise effect so you can get a good clean signal to the sensor. Not a simple quest.



thx Fer this.
it was the summary I remember from some years ago when I last brought this up.
question,
can we "get close" with fords unit?
and does close even count?
especially when I have m sqrt that. can be manipulated from the other end.(I presume)
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #18 by Mdixon300f100 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 7:55 pm

So I finally got to the valves. Unfortunately I can’t get them all at the moment, some are being stubborn and my 1yr old is asleep upstairs... anyway the valves and seat look good, valves measure 4.910 from face to tip, .341 stem diameter, the “porting” is kinda rough, but I should be able to fix some of that.
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #19 by pmuller9 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:05 pm

Those would be Chevy valves.
Doesn't look like there was much work done beyond cutting the seats and throat for larger valves.

You will want to cut the spring perches down so you can use double springs.

Those rocker studs with only a 5/16" screw in thread are scary.
I would recommend replacing them with an ARP screw in stud.

Do you know what valve springs came with this head?

Would you mind measuring from the top of a valve stem to the top of the stud tower using a straight edge sitting on the valve stem tip 90* to the valve stem. Thanks

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #20 by pmuller9 » Sat Mar 23, 2019 9:24 pm

Intake port. leave a small bridge between the valve guide and back wall as shown.
Image
Exhaust port. Just cut the valve guide straight across leaving the flat shelf.
Image

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #21 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:48 am

It has double springs, the inner spring is adout .500 shorter that the outer, and the head is stepped, as well as the retainer. I can’t get the rocker studs to spin, idk if their press in or not, and the guides won’t budge either. I’ll try and get the measurements later today, once I get the rest of the valves out I’ll clean it up so you can better see the exhaust port, the valve guide has been cut flat there, but it still needs some cleanup.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #22 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 8:42 am

Mdixon300f100 wrote:It has double springs, the inner spring is adout .500 shorter that the outer, and the head is stepped, as well as the retainer. I can’t get the rocker studs to spin, idk if their press in or not, and the guides won’t budge either. I’ll try and get the measurements later today, once I get the rest of the valves out I’ll clean it up so you can better see the exhaust port, the valve guide has been cut flat there, but it still needs some cleanup.


From the photos, Bronze guide liners have been installed in the guides.
The parent guide is integral to the head (it doesn’t press out)

If the guides need service, the two options are
1) remove the bronze liners and install new liners. (Removal tool and guide liner kit required)
2) drill out the parent guides and install conversion guides (with a seat and guide machine)

What method I use, depends on the job.

Those studs are screw in, probably installed with red loctite

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #23 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:43 pm

And those are 3/8nf studs, not 5/16

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #24 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:45 pm

Max_Effort wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:It has double springs, the inner spring is adout .500 shorter that the outer, and the head is stepped, as well as the retainer. I can’t get the rocker studs to spin, idk if their press in or not, and the guides won’t budge either. I’ll try and get the measurements later today, once I get the rest of the valves out I’ll clean it up so you can better see the exhaust port, the valve guide has been cut flat there, but it still needs some cleanup.


From the photos, Bronze guide liners have been installed in the guides.
The parent guide is integral to the head (it doesn’t press out)

If the guides need service, the two options are
1) remove the bronze liners and install new liners. (Removal tool and guide liner kit required)
2) drill out the parent guides and install conversion guides (with a seat and guide machine)

What method I use, depends on the job.

Those studs are screw in, probably installed with red loctite


I can slide the liners out by hand

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #25 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Mar 24, 2019 1:57 pm

Mdixon300f100 wrote:
I can slide the liners out by hand

Normally those are driven in and locked in place by an interference compressive fit as well as a reaming/ flaring action on the ends. You usually need a driver to remove them
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #26 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 2:44 pm

So can the liners be replaced? Or does that mean the parent guide is stretched?

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #27 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:55 pm

They usually can be replaced, assuming the parent metal was properly drilled and reamed beforehand. Once the new bronze sleeve is tapped in place there is a tool that looks a little like a python that swallowed a pig that gets driven through the liner to lock it in, then the guide should be honed to size. The parent metal does not stretch.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #28 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Mar 24, 2019 3:55 pm

They usually can be replaced, assuming the parent metal was properly drilled and reamed beforehand. Once the new bronze sleeve is tapped in place there is a tool that looks a little like a python that swallowed a pig that gets driven through the liner to lock it in, then the guide should be honed to size. The parent metal does not stretch.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #29 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 4:59 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:They usually can be replaced, assuming the parent metal was properly drilled and reamed beforehand. Once the new bronze sleeve is tapped in place there is a tool that looks a little like a python that swallowed a pig that gets driven through the liner to lock it in, then the guide should be honed to size. The parent metal does not stretch.


Yeah, it’s not a good sign that the liners are loose. Either they weren’t ball broached (python pig tool :lol: )
Or they were sloppily reamed. Some older guide liner kits used a threaded broach, but all should lock the liner in.

There are oversize guide liner kits, but at that point, I just core drill and ream for conversion guides.

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #30 by CNC-Dude » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:13 pm

Sounds like a step was overlooked in the guide liner installation. Once the parent guide is drilled and reamed, there is a special spiraling tool that is run down the parent guide and cuts a thread looking cut the whole length of the inside on the parent guide. This gives the liner a crevice to bite into on the inside of the parent guide when the swedge(python that swallowed a ball tool) is forced thru the liner. Without doing that, the liner has nothing to hold itself in place other than the minimal interference it has on the parent guide. And as you can see, the liner, over time can become loose and basically fall out easily.
Image

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #31 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 5:38 pm

Anyone know where to find said kit? The only thing I’m seeing are steel guideplates...

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #32 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:00 pm

Mdixon300f100 wrote:Anyone know where to find said kit? The only thing I’m seeing are steel guideplates...


To just replace guides liners, you need a guide liner remover, an installer, and a ball broach.

Goodson has the kits and individual parts
Also Cylinder head supply, Silver-seal, Regis, etc...
Sometimes they are on eBay.

It’s not worth buying for one set of 12 liners. Then there is a leaning curve to do them correctly. You should also have a set of centering cones at least.

Best to sub that out. After the guides are replaced, a valve job will have to be performed. And if the the guides were reamed improperly you have to go oversize or go to conversion guides.

https://goodson.com/collections/bronze- ... r-tool-set

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #33 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:11 pm

CNC-Dude wrote:Sounds like a step was overlooked in the guide liner installation. Once the parent guide is drilled and reamed, there is a special spiraling tool that is run down the parent guide and cuts a thread looking cut the whole length of the inside on the parent guide. This gives the liner a crevice to bite into on the inside of the parent guide when the swedge(python that swallowed a ball tool) is forced thru the liner. Without doing that, the liner has nothing to hold itself in place other than the minimal interference it has on the parent guide. And as you can see, the liner, over time can become loose and basically fall out easily.


They haven’t made kits with spiral tools for many years now.

Kits then went to the shaft style ball broach that’s been described as “python swallowed a pig”

Newer kits use a carbide ball and an air driver to swedge and size the guide.

With the ball broach you just ream and broach. A broach or carbide ball size is selected .001” over the desired liner I.D size as the liner springs back a bit. I haven’t had any liners fall out or loosen with the ball broach method.

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #34 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:26 pm

pmuller9 wrote:Those would be Chevy valves.
Doesn't look like there was much work done beyond cutting the seats and throat for larger valves.

You will want to cut the spring perches down so you can use double springs.

Those rocker studs with only a 5/16" screw in thread are scary.
I would recommend replacing them with an ARP screw in stud.

Do you know what valve springs came with this head?

Would you mind measuring from the top of a valve stem to the top of the stud tower using a straight edge sitting on the valve stem tip 90* to the valve stem. Thanks


With my verniers I measured from outside of valve stem to inside of rocker stud. 1.557-.171+.1875=1.6735 ctc

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #35 by CNC-Dude » Sun Mar 24, 2019 6:34 pm

I've done close to 1000 sets of heads, just never have worn out my original K-line set of tools at the race shop I worked at. LOL
Also, I doubt you'll be able to prove its better with or without it being done!
Image

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #36 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:11 pm

Mdixon300f100 wrote:Anyone know where to find said kit? The only thing I’m seeing are steel guideplates...


I may have answered the wrong question

Were you looking for the pedestal to stud rocker kit?

Crane cams has a variety of them

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #37 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:23 pm

Max_Effort wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:Anyone know where to find said kit? The only thing I’m seeing are steel guideplates...


I may have answered the wrong question

Were you looking for the pedestal to stud rocker kit?

Crane cams has a variety of them


No, I was speaking of the bronze insert replacements. However if it can easily be converted to adjustable steel guideplates I wouldn’t mind, I think it would require new studs though, as your saying the parent guide is pressed into the head and the stud is threaded into them. Is that correct, or am I missing something? The stud is about .500 diameter where it meets the parent guide

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #38 by Mdixon300f100 » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:25 pm

Sorry it’s actually .5625 where it meets the guide
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #39 by Max_Effort » Sun Mar 24, 2019 7:41 pm

Mdixon300f100 wrote:
Max_Effort wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:Anyone know where to find said kit? The only thing I’m seeing are steel guideplates...


I may have answered the wrong question

Were you looking for the pedestal to stud rocker kit?

Crane cams has a variety of them


No, I was speaking of the bronze insert replacements. However if it can easily be converted to adjustable steel guideplates I wouldn’t mind, I think it would require new studs though, as your saying the parent guide is pressed into the head and the stud is threaded into them. Is that correct, or am I missing something? The stud is about .500 diameter where it meets the parent guide


Mixing topics up...

Back to valve guides. The OEM guide is part of the head casting (why it’s called “parent”or integral) no part of it is removable. The part of the guide where the seal is sitting on has been machined smaller for those metal clad valve seals.

When we install conversion guides, the casting is core drilled right through the guide, then reamed to .500”, then a new guide measuring .502” is pressed in. It will end up in the same location as the original guide, and protruding enough for a seal to sit on.

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #40 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 4:50 am

Max_Effort wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:
Max_Effort wrote:
I may have answered the wrong question

Were you looking for the pedestal to stud rocker kit?

Crane cams has a variety of them


No, I was speaking of the bronze insert replacements. However if it can easily be converted to adjustable steel guideplates I wouldn’t mind, I think it would require new studs though, as your saying the parent guide is pressed into the head and the stud is threaded into them. Is that correct, or am I missing something? The stud is about .500 diameter where it meets the parent guide


Mixing topics up...

Back to valve guides. The OEM guide is part of the head casting (why it’s called “parent”or integral) no part of it is removable. The part of the guide where the seal is sitting on has been machined smaller for those metal clad valve seals.

When we install conversion guides, the casting is core drilled right through the guide, then reamed to .500”, then a new guide measuring .502” is pressed in. It will end up in the same location as the original guide, and protruding enough for a seal to sit on.


Ok I knew there was confusion, I’m speaking of the pushrod guides

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #41 by Max_Effort » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:45 am

Mdixon300f100 wrote:
No, I was speaking of the bronze insert replacements. However if it can easily be converted to adjustable steel guideplates I wouldn’t mind, I think it would require new studs though, as your saying the parent guide is pressed into the head and the stud is threaded into them. Is that correct, or am I missing something? The stud is about .500 diameter where it meets the parent guide



Mdixon300f100 wrote:Ok I knew there was confusion, I’m speaking of the pushrod guides



Are bronze pushrod guide inserts worn out? They are centering the rocker and just slide in. These kits have plastic inserts.

IMG_2568.PNG
You do not have the required permissions to view the files attached to this post.

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #42 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:20 am

They’re not worn out, I’m just not sure if their aligning the rockers properly since they’re in line with the rocker stud. It looked like the rocker roller was rotating over the valve tips. The contact marks on the valves were bow tie shaped

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #43 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 7:26 am

Just to clarify for anyone, the VALVE STEM GUIDES are fine no issues, I was concerned about the PUSHROD GUIDES. I cannot move them, and idk if they have the right center to center distance.

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #44 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Mar 25, 2019 9:29 am

Work backwards. Center the roller tip of the rocker directly over the valve tip. You may want to do this in the overlap phase so there is a little preload on the pushrods to keep everything from flopping around. Then measure the C-C distance of the pushrods for each cylinder.Do not be surprised if the spacing is not consistent between cylinder-to-cylinder. Manufacturing tolerances are a little lax in that regard. I once had to machine a stud girdle for another guy twice because the first one I made him to print did not align with the studs on his head. So you may have to set the spacing for each cylinder.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #45 by pmuller9 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:10 am

Yes, the rockers are moving from side to side because of the loose guides.

The 5/16" threaded holes in the stud towers will need to be drilled and tapped to 7/16' x 14 to except ARP studs so you can use the steel adjustable pushrod guide plates.

The guide plates want to turn as you torque them in place so we like to weld the pairs together once the center to centers are measured.
C to Cs have been between 1.94" and 1.96" on different engines

https://www.dropbox.com/s/hw9cogn2posft ... 2.JPG?dl=0

Image

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #46 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:39 am

pmuller9 wrote:Yes, the rockers are moving from side to side because of the loose guides.

The 5/16" threaded holes in the stud towers will need to be drilled and tapped to 7/16' x 14 to except ARP studs so you can use the steel adjustable pushrod guide


Ok the part of the stud that the guide is on measures 9/16”. I have to pull them to determine what the thread size is right now.

Honestly I’m getting ahead of myself, I need to build a short block before I can use steel guide plates. Im just trying to disassemble everything so I can get it to the machine shop.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #47 by pmuller9 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 10:57 am

Mdixon300f100 wrote:Honestly I’m getting ahead of myself, I need to build a short block before I can use steel guide plates. Im just trying to disassemble everything so I can get it to the machine shop.


Actually the head should to be completed first so you know the finished chamber volume in order to know what the piston needs to be to get the correct compression ratio based on your cam choice.

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #48 by Mdixon300f100 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:15 am

pmuller9 wrote:
Mdixon300f100 wrote:Honestly I’m getting ahead of myself, I need to build a short block before I can use steel guide plates. Im just trying to disassemble everything so I can get it to the machine shop.


Actually the head should to be completed first so you know the finished chamber volume in order to know what the piston needs to be to get the correct compression ratio based on your cam choice.


Without a block I can’t scribe the bore to the head...

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3225
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #49 by pmuller9 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 11:57 am

Mdixon300f100 wrote:Without a block I can’t scribe the bore to the head...


Good Point!

Mdixon300f100
Registered User
Posts: 142
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 6:43 am

Re: Stuck valve locks

Post #50 by Mdixon300f100 » Tue Mar 26, 2019 8:26 pm

I mean I have a block, it’s .040 overbore, but I could use it to get started. Is the deck and head layout tolerance between castings enough to worry about? I can’t imagine factory tolerances were loose enough for that to be a problem, but I don’t know. Should I hold off?

On further inspection I’m considering just a light home on this block. I just did a quick check with some bore gauges and they all measure within .001 round and less than .001 taper top to bottom.

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests