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Hedman vs EFI headers

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sandboxer
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Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #1 by sandboxer » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:00 pm

I don’t know if specs have been posted, so here goes...

The EFI headers port match beautifully, whereas the Hedman header doesn’t.
0BFA99FC-5B18-4B90-9DB4-4FA8C08F5DF5.jpeg
F62C61D6-7389-4996-B3D7-5E31932DEBEB.jpeg
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Last edited by sandboxer on Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sandboxer
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #2 by sandboxer » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:06 pm

The EFI is the larger port casting...
E5B90DDD-46D5-498E-8E5E-10E456D9B54D.jpeg
BD2AB2BA-5A5C-4B7B-9EEC-000C58A0E929.jpeg
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sandboxer
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #3 by sandboxer » Thu Apr 04, 2019 12:10 pm

A comparison shot.
69328ABE-0C10-45B6-AA01-53F7569C3E66.jpeg
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Thu Apr 04, 2019 1:00 pm

Good catch!
As you know it is not good to have a step down in the exhaust system.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #5 by GPGoverMPG » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:43 am

When I was building my intake I had it mounted to the ported head I'm going to run with the valves removed. It was quite the revelation seeing the transitions. I going to run the EFI manifolds at least for a while guess I'll need to do the same thing. Making sure they line up right when installed will be the challenge with EFI pipes.
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
72 F250 4x4 4speed 300 I6
72 F100 2x 428 Tri Power
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sandboxer
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #6 by sandboxer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:31 am

I’m going to open up the EFI a bit by a 16th all around. That will assure there’s no overhang into the port.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:26 pm

If you use the EFI manifolds will you do a rear mount or engine mount turbocharger?

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #8 by sandboxer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 7:38 pm

Since the turbo exhaust inlet has a double port entry I will use the separate headers to isolate the pulses into each individual port. At that point I think it will be best to keep the turbo as close to the engine as possible.
Thoughts?

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #9 by Mdixon300f100 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 9:19 pm

The closer they are, the more thermally efficient it will be. It will spool faster, As the exhaust hasn’t had a chance to cool. Hotter gasses, more volume, more efficient. I’m sure any performance exhaust shop can fab a twin scroll setup, and that’s exactly the route I plan on taking.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #10 by pmuller9 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:27 pm

sandboxer wrote:Since the turbo exhaust inlet has a double port entry I will use the separate headers to isolate the pulses into each individual port. At that point I think it will be best to keep the turbo as close to the engine as possible.
Thoughts?

I agree.
One of the drawbacks of the rear mount turbo is having to rely on a scavenging pump to return the oil to the oil pan.
The EFI manifolds will save you a lot of work and are far better than the log manifold.
They would be even better if the outlets weren't turned out so far.

Remind me. Are you going to use EFI or a Carburetor?

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #11 by sandboxer » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:43 pm

I’ll have the space to make it happen, since there isn’t an engine bay to worry about.
The photo below is in reference to the dual port inlet for those that were wondering.
2DD7570D-E5E2-4EE0-9613-2A8ADD45DBCC.jpeg
One header per hole
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #12 by jgregg13 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:35 am

Just a note that if it helps with your plumbing for the Turbo mount, you can use a front EFI manifold on the rear cylinders with a little modification. This raises the rear outlet so the turbo connections might be shorter.

Image

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #13 by sandboxer » Tue Apr 09, 2019 10:17 am

Sweet!!
Time to look for another set. It looks so much better too.
What size/type turbos are you running?

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #14 by jgregg13 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 3:29 pm

These are KKK model K14 turbos with a 50mm inlet ID at the compressor. They came off Iveco 2.3L diesel engines. The K14 series is used on a variety of engines from about 2L up to 2.8L that produce about 150 HP +/- . I hope to get around 250 to 300 HP at 4500 rpm max with the twin setup. But not there yet.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 5:19 pm

jgregg13 wrote:These are KKK model K14 turbos with a 50mm inlet ID at the compressor. They came off Iveco 2.3L diesel engines. The K14 series is used on a variety of engines from about 2L up to 2.8L that produce about 150 HP +/- . I hope to get around 250 to 300 HP at 4500 rpm max with the twin setup. But not there yet.


The actual compressor inducer blade diameter is 38mm as the inlet tapers down.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #16 by guhfluh » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:20 pm

sandboxer wrote:I’m going to open up the EFI a bit by a 16th all around. That will assure there’s no overhang into the port.

Such is what I've done with mine.
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #17 by guhfluh » Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:23 pm

jgregg13 wrote:Just a note that if it helps with your plumbing for the Turbo mount, you can use a front EFI manifold on the rear cylinders with a little modification. This raises the rear outlet so the turbo connections might be shorter.

Image

I've seen mention of doing that somewhere else as well. I'm interested in seeing any more pictures of how the rear manifold fits and clearances if you have any. :)
1967 F-250 Crew Cab 2wd, 300 6cyl, T-170/RTS/TOD 4-speed overdrive
240 head, Offy C, EFI exhaust manifolds, Comp 268H, mandrel 2.5-3" exhaust, Edelbrock 500, Pertronix ignitor and coil, recurved dizzy. 200whp/300wtq

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #18 by pmuller9 » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:31 pm

sandboxer wrote:Sweet!!
Time to look for another set. It looks so much better too.
What size/type turbos are you running?

The turbocharger compressor inducer diameter for a Iveco 2.3L diesel engine is 38mm.
Great for a stock 300 engine for low rpm application.

You would need two larger turbochargers for what you are doing.
A pair of 42mm turbos would make power on your 240 to 5500 rpm and a pair of 44mm turbos if you want to push the power to 6500 rpm.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #19 by sandboxer » Wed Apr 10, 2019 1:17 am

pmuller9 wrote:
sandboxer wrote:Sweet!!
Time to look for another set. It looks so much better too.
What size/type turbos are you running?

The turbocharger compressor inducer diameter for a Iveco 2.3L diesel engine is 38mm.
Great for a stock 300 engine for low rpm application.

You would need two larger turbochargers for what you are doing.
A pair of 42mm turbos would make power on your 240 to 5500 rpm and a pair of 44mm turbos if you want to push the power to 6500 rpm.

Thanks for the expert advice. I’ll go with my H1C for this time around as we discussed in the other thread. I do like the idea of the twin turbo though. Next time...

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #20 by Phase3 » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:20 pm

jgregg13 wrote:Just a note that if it helps with your plumbing for the Turbo mount, you can use a front EFI manifold on the rear cylinders with a little modification. This raises the rear outlet so the turbo connections might be shorter.

Image


Really like the way this layout worked great idea!
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #21 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:41 pm

Will the downstream exhaust clear the starter?
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #22 by Phase3 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:09 am

I think a turbo that had a vband turbine inlet would work great. Then just mill down that heavy flange to accept the mating vband flange and theres enough material there to even change the angle as needed.
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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #23 by jgregg13 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 3:59 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The actual compressor inducer blade diameter is 38mm as the inlet tapers down.


Correct, although I measured the ID of the compressor inlet at the wheel and I get closer to 36mm. I don't know if all K14s have the same inducer size. From a list of K14 car applications it looks like the Audi 2.5L TDI is rated at 140 hp. So what can you expect on a gas engine? That's where I'm thinking 250 - 300 hp on the 4.9L. I have a friend with a chassis dyno, so can report when it's done, but that is a ways away at this point.

I haven't completed the installation and modification of the rear manifold. You have to cut off the front bolt hole ear (which I've done) then I expect to use longer bolts or studs and clamping bars to secure the #4 port. May have to weld a bolt ear to #4 port top like the one on the original rear manifold. To mount the turbos I intend to make adaptor plates 3/4" thick with counterbored bolts through the manifold flange replacing the studs.

And it looks like the downpipes will clear the starter in my application (engine in a '48 Chevy car). It has the small starter. I guess it depends on the clearances in your vehicle. Heat shields, yes. This setup needs to use turbos with integral waste gates.

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Re: Hedman vs EFI headers

Post #24 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Apr 11, 2019 8:37 pm

I like your '48 Chev project, especially how you narrowed the front end. I'm working on a '60 Suburban EMT fire truck and we're using the same unit, un-narrowed.
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