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New sound at Idle

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Dr Jay
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New sound at Idle

Post #1 by Dr Jay » Tue Apr 23, 2019 8:36 am

My 300 is rattling or clattering at idle.
It is running strong and smooth; but, at idle an intermittent sound is driving me crazy. Loudest on the driver side, stethoscope cannot find a harmonic sound
and removing the alternator, water pump belt does not change it. This is not a lifter or valve train sound, I pulled the valve cover and all seemed ok.
I was thinking about my timing gears, oil pump and drive, and fuel pump. The sound is gone some time,
and returns.
Has anyone solved a problem like that?
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

pmuller9
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #2 by pmuller9 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 4:55 pm

Does it go away if you push the clutch in?

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Dr Jay
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #3 by Dr Jay » Tue Apr 23, 2019 9:51 pm

Well, I don’t think so. I just replaced the clutch, flywheel, pilot bearing (swap to roller) and throwout bearing trying to chase the sound and fix the input from spinning with the clutch in. The pilot was wallowed out .060” and bronze dust was all over. My impression is that clutch out and in neutral sounds the same as clutch disengaged and in gear.
I do think the starter sounds funny on starting.
Bendix out?
Thank you for considering my dilemma.
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

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bubba22349
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Tue Apr 23, 2019 10:25 pm

Dr Jay wrote:My 300 is rattling or clattering at idle.
It is running strong and smooth; but, at idle an intermittent sound is driving me crazy. Loudest on the driver side, stethoscope cannot find a harmonic sound
and removing the alternator, water pump belt does not change it. This is not a lifter or valve train sound, I pulled the valve cover and all seemed ok.
I was thinking about my timing gears, oil pump and drive, and fuel pump. The sound is gone some time,
and returns.
Has anyone solved a problem like that?


Of the items on your list the only one that might be the cause is the fuel pump. And it’s on the drivers side, if the pivot pin / arm is badly worn they can be a quite loud hammering sound. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Dr Jay
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #5 by Dr Jay » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:02 pm

Replaced the fuel pump, the spring was broken, soooo sure I had it... but no!
Pulled the Distributor and oil pump drive all good.
I drive this thing like crazy. I think I’ll build another block and prepare for disaster. Must be some rod or wrist pin. Maaaaan!
PS runs so great. Idle perfect.
Last edited by Dr Jay on Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

pmuller9
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 8:43 pm

What is the oil pressure at idle?
What oil are you using?

Usually internal engine problems don't sound like a rattle, more like a knock or clicking.
What are you using for a stethoscope?

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bubba22349
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 10:06 pm

One other thing you might check out is the thrust main bearing clearance. Good luck :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Dr Jay
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #8 by Dr Jay » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:20 am

I’m using a HB stethoscope. All I hear all over is whirring. The block is not hammering at all. As a veterinarian, I use one all the time. It solves so many problems. I consider myself good at this. I listen when all is good.
Well I have an idiot light. I’ll find a way to get a reading on a gauge.
Oil is 10W -30 valvoline. Conventional.
This weekend I’ll idle it up on stands, and examine the exhaust closely. Loose welds or clamps.
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #9 by Max_Effort » Fri Apr 26, 2019 11:07 pm

Dr Jay wrote:I’m using a HB stethoscope. All I hear all over is whirring. The block is not hammering at all. As a veterinarian, I use one all the time. It solves so many problems. I consider myself good at this. I listen when all is good.
Well I have an idiot light. I’ll find a way to get a reading on a gauge.
Oil is 10W -30 valvoline. Conventional.
This weekend I’ll idle it up on stands, and examine the exhaust closely. Loose welds or clamps.


I’m sure you’re good with a stethoscope, however, mechanics use this contact style, VS a HB style.

435D065B-07B2-4D3B-8319-455AB81C356F.jpeg
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Dr Jay
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #10 by Dr Jay » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:59 pm

I removed the valve cover, again, it looks like the valve spring on the 3rd cylinder exhaust is not square under the retainer. It is a rotator. Is it possible the rotator has failed. When I manipulate the valve spring it makes a sound reminiscent of my idle rattle. Head is fresh 5,000 miles back with new guides. 268 Comp cam with the specified springs. Height was right so I used the rotators.
My 240 head is fresh and ready to go, It uses plain retainers on all valves.
Could I swap all the rotators off for plain?
Am I grasping at straws here?
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

pmuller9
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #11 by pmuller9 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:35 pm

Whether or not the exhaust rotator retainer is making the noise, get them out of there.
The Comp 268 cam usually comes with the Comp 903 springs which are meant to fit the stock retainers.

If you have 6 stock intake retainers then replace the six rotators with them.
If not the Comp 768 retainer is the next closest one that will fit the 903 spring.

Do you know what valve springs are on the head?

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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #12 by bubba22349 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:40 pm

X2 Yes if you use the taller valve springs with the solid reatainers too. Usally the rotators will get ditched with even a mild Performace build up anyway. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Dr Jay
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Location: North Alabama

Re: New sound at Idle

Post #13 by Dr Jay » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:54 pm

Thank you guys!
It’s not my noise,
I went all shade tree with a rope to hold the valve up
and removed the spring. Guide is still solid. Spring is still as undamaged. I will swap em out and continue my quest for the racket.
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Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

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bubba22349
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 10:30 pm

Did you notice any loose rockers?
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Dr Jay
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Location: North Alabama

Re: New sound at Idle

Post #15 by Dr Jay » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:48 am

I pulled all the plugs, all looked good, I spun each pushrod. As I cranked the crankshaft around. All well adjusted. The crankshaft turned evenly, quietly, with all the plugs out. No loose pushrods or rocker arms.
These adjustable studs were installed when the head was rebuilt. All solid.
I’m still driving it, ....
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #16 by 68Flareside240 » Mon Apr 29, 2019 5:18 pm

I use my work stethoscope all the time to find noises. I have a long flathead screwdriver I use as a probe and put the diaphragmed bell on the end of the screwdriver. Works great. Had a strange groan in 5.7 tahoe I could not figure out. Located a bad idler pulley bearing with it.

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Dr Jay
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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #17 by Dr Jay » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:27 pm

Agree!
I have the $5.00 Harbor freight deal.
I have used my work scopes because the ear tips seal so well. Again on a screw driver lightly placed on area of interest. I have learned some interesting things.
Blessings,
Dr Jay

1978 F100 Shortie, Lowered front and rear, 300 .030 over, 300 carb head, Clifford, Holley 390
268 Comp Cam, Cloyes, Fuel Inj. exhaust manifolds, MSD 6A, TOD, 9"

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Re: New sound at Idle

Post #18 by Max_Effort » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:31 pm

Dr Jay wrote:Agree!
I have the $5.00 Harbor freight deal.
I have used my work scopes because the ear tips seal so well. Again on a screw driver lightly placed on area of interest. I have learned some interesting things.


You have given me an idea. I’m going to connect a HB scope earset to my mechanics scope. I’ve never liked the rough, hard plastic ear tips.

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