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Some daily driver questions

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Stepney
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Some daily driver questions

Post #1 by Stepney » Thu Apr 25, 2019 9:09 pm

Hello, all. First posting here. Thanks for the add in.
Last year, I bought myself a new daily driver, an '85 F-150 short bed, 4wd, with the RTS 4 speed OD transmission. It had 58k documented original miles. Figured this engine would last me forever .. Wrong. The fact is, when it was delivered to my door from a few states away, it was rather stiff and had zero oil in it. To make a long story short, we did get it freed up and for over 25k miles now, it has been a fantastic running engine, summer through winter, albeit with a small missfire when hot. However, it has a decent amount of blowby, and ticks and knocks pretty bad too. With my basic sparkplug-turned-air fitting, cylinder 1 has an incredible amount of leakage. (Blew the PCV out when I forgot to remove the oil cap) (Despite still reading 125psi on the gauge when I test it). To help combat leaking, clouds of steam from the breather, etc. I actually added a second PCV valve to the engine. Like I say .. still runs like a champ and never acts up, but the fact is, I know it probably won't carry on forever. Band-aid's at best. At light/coasting throttle, the engine raps loudly. Dead silent when underway though. Even the EEC-IV is working rather well.
Right, anyway to get to the point, I'd like to start working on a rebuilt engine for this truck. Something to work on on the side. I do intend to stick with the 1bbl Carter, though I plan on converting to non feedback. DS-II or DUI is still up in the air.
My question lies with this. I don't race it, it rarely sees speed over 65-70mph, and doesn't tow much. As I said, RTS 4 speed with a 3.55lsd rear, and 4wd. It gets decent mpg's considering the issues it has, I average around 18-20. I do like the peace of mind when rebuilding my own engine (Granted I usually work on Model-A Fords). However, for what all I estimate it would cost, Jasper and some other companies seem to have good remarks, for near-or-less than what I would have in a stock overhaul. As I have read, this engine is rated around 110hp. And you really know it when on the highway.. however as I have said it has it's issues. Blowby, low compression, etc. I'm sure even a fresh stock engine would help the situation. She's managed in excess of 90mph just for the shot a few times, and never complained.

Anyway, to make that long tangent a bit simpler .. as fellow enthusiasts, what is your take on buying a reman, vs. doing it yourself? I would rebuild the original given the chance, but I can't have the truck out of service for more than a weekend or so, just enough time to swap an engine. I consider myself skillful enough to do the job. Just looking for insight.

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xctasy
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #2 by xctasy » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:02 pm

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Grab Haynes book #1667.



It has a whole list of fault codes and procedures for dealing with Fords Feedback YFA , its TFi ignition, and its EECIV control unit.

As long as the MCS valve, two step Carter YFA needle and the many clips are still free of grime, oxide and precipitate, there is no need to de EEK Four it.

Get a code reader(see below), pull the codes, then buy a same year 1985 block, have it machined, and drop in some 1995 hypereutectic factory spec Silvolite pistons with some modern thin rings, and have it plateau honed like the 400 hp Preperation H Maverick 4.9 liter Big Dix World Champ Gramp built back in 1972. You can run ring clearances 4 thou up on the normal minimum.

The 85 Feedback is THE most misunderstood Ford Six Engine Eva.

Code reader 3145 with a 3149 extension cable will allow you to data log the engine with ease.

CNC Dude went into the science of the cylinder one wear that results in early blow by in all six cylinder engines with a 1st cylinder clearanced for a front water pump.

Once you use OBDII era pistons and understand how to pull OBDI era codes with the electronic float level YFA, you'll get good economy, great reliability, and then you can fiddle with a dual outlet exhaust.

The knock sensor allows you to run very high compression, and the carb can be jumpered into rich or lean running by fiddling with the O2 sensor voltages. The problems with the carb are only Foreign Objects like the plastic parts from the hanger or Mixture Control Soleniod.(MCS).

No one who has fiddled with an earlier YF Carter should apply the same logic to the Feedback YFA. Anti rocking plates, three step metering rods, base idle setting and anything from a pre Feedback YFA will scew the float level control and thats how the MCS does its job. Carter and Ford lead the way, carbs like the Feedback Carter BBD and 2150/2700/7200 were not as smart as the YFA, as it was able to be 100% controlled by the EECIV. Compared to the Ford MCU or Jeep MCU or 2.8/5.0 2150 1.14, the YFA Carter was unable to run without the ECU.

The little 72 2.0 and 85 hp 2.3 engines were 100% closed loop, and very much in league with the ECU, but the carb is exactly the same except the MCS and the part number of the Two step jet


The parts supply is just endless, mostly from fing bats who cannot follow simple service insyructions..."everyone" thinks an 85 Feedback pickup is junk, and all 2.3 carb 85 Mustangs, Capris and Ranger pickups used the same carb and control systems. Its got an array of TPS and adjustment processes that aren't well umderstood.
Last edited by xctasy on Sat May 25, 2019 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

Stepney
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #3 by Stepney » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:22 pm

Oh I completely agree on the EEV-IV. It works well for me, and I'm well versed in pulling the codes. At this point, however, the wiring insulation is beginning to fail and the whole harness is getting crispy. I've been patching it along on the odd occasion when needed, but being as this truck is going into retirement/hobby status in a few years, I see no need in keeping it all. And sooner or later, in the future, the already hard to find NEW parts are going to be even more scarce. I want to get ready for that. There will be plenty more HEI/DS-II's around in 20 years then there will be EEC-IV. Not to mention, it's unsightly. I have the original Ford service books on the whole unit and follow it like a bible. Like I say, everything works great, but it's getting on in years.

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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #4 by Harte3 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 10:31 am

If you are of a mind to rebuild yourself, find a rebuild-able engine, rebuild it and when you are ready, swap the engines out. That way you still have your daily driver and will get a new engine too.

Have you done a thorough vacuum test on the current engine? Those factory hard plastic vacuum lines crack, leak and are hard to nail down. Changing to rubber, neoprene lines is the usual fix.
'83 F150 300, 0.030 over, Offy DP, Holley 4160/1848-1 465 cfm, Comp Cam 260H. P/P head, EFI exhaust manifolds, Walker Y Pipe, Super Cat, Turbo muffler, Recurved DSII, Mallory HyFire 6a, ACCEL Super Stock Coil, Taylor 8mm Wires, EFI plugs.

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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #5 by Lazy JW » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:12 pm

Stepney wrote:... what is your take on buying a reman, vs. doing it yourself? I would rebuild the original given the chance, but I can't have the truck out of service for more than a weekend or so, just enough time to swap an engine. I consider myself skillful enough to do the job. Just looking for insight.


Do the reman, but buy any extended warranty that they offer.
Joe
"The White OX" 1974 F-350 300-6, Stock single exhaust, Carter YF, T-18A, Dana70 w/4.11, Flatbed dually w/dump bed. "Where no oxen are, the crib is clean, but much increase is by the strength of the ox" (Proverbs 14:4)
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Stepney
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #6 by Stepney » Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:07 pm

Harte3 wrote:If you are of a mind to rebuild yourself, find a rebuild-able engine, rebuild it and when you are ready, swap the engines out. That way you still have your daily driver and will get a new engine too.

Have you done a thorough vacuum test on the current engine? Those factory hard plastic vacuum lines crack, leak and are hard to nail down. Changing to rubber, neoprene lines is the usual fix.


Yes, indeed I have. Engine runs at a steady 21-22" as I recall, however it has been a few months since I last checked it. As for the vacuum lines, they were all replaced as soon as I bought the truck.
That was my main basic question, reman vs. a slow overhaul on my own time, doing it my way. I've had my eyes out for a little while now for a reasonably priced old engine, that isn't an EFI. No hurry to start anything, just figured I'd make the post for some outside input.

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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #7 by pmuller9 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:47 pm

If you do your own then you can use one of the hypereutectic pistons that has a 22cc dish and deck the block for zero piston to deck clearance.
The non EFI heads have 76cc chambers which would give you an 8.8 compression ratio, perfect for a stock cam using 87 octane gas.
Add the higher ratio Chevy 250 six rockers for more valve lift and torque.
Use the Duraspark distributor but add an MSD 6A. It will help with additional torque and fuel mileage.

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old28racer
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #8 by old28racer » Fri Apr 26, 2019 7:42 pm

Is running a Duraspark Distributor with a MSD 6A box a better performance option than a stock 240/300 distributor with a Protronix unit & Coil?
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

pmuller9
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Fri Apr 26, 2019 8:10 pm

old28racer wrote:Is running a Duraspark Distributor with a MSD 6A box a better performance option than a stock 240/300 distributor with a Protronix unit & Coil?

Yes.
The MSD system works best if used with the MSD Coil designed for capacitive discharge not the coils used for inductive systems.
The initial spark is shorter but has many times more current.

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old28racer
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #10 by old28racer » Fri May 24, 2019 10:25 pm

Are the Duraspark Distributor, MSD 6A box & Capacitive Discharge coil the only parts needed. What is the primary ohm's on that coil? Best place to get a good quality rebuilt Dura Spark Distributor? Does the system need a full 12 volts (no resister)?
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

pmuller9
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #11 by pmuller9 » Fri May 24, 2019 11:11 pm

old28racer wrote:Are the Duraspark Distributor, MSD 6A box & Capacitive Discharge coil the only parts needed. What is the primary ohm's on that coil? Best place to get a good quality rebuilt Dura Spark Distributor? Does the system need a full 12 volts (no resister)?

You will also need the cable to connect the MSD 6A box to the distributor.
MSD #8869
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/msd-8869

The MSD box gets the full 12 volts.
The MSD ignition coil primary side gets over 500 volts so NO resistor.

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old28racer
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #12 by old28racer » Sat May 25, 2019 12:34 am

Thanks Paul, Do you know where I can pickup a quality Dura Spark Rebuilt Distributor?
Bad Day Racing Is Better Than A Day In The Stands :mrgreen:

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68Flareside240
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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #13 by 68Flareside240 » Tue May 28, 2019 11:15 am

I am pretty sure I have the Haynes Manual for that model year truck. Found it at my dads work under a stack of crap and took it as it had some info on the 300. I will send it to you if you want it, I really have no need for it for my application. PM me an address and I will get it to you.

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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #14 by joejoe223 » Tue Jul 02, 2019 12:52 pm

Hey guys. I know it’s an older post. But can anyone post some links to the distributor and msd box plus coil they used. I have been wanting to upgrade my ignition but I’m having a hard time finding the correct parts. Finding mostly distributors for the 302. Parts goin in an 85 inline 6. F150 2 wheel

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Re: Some daily driver questions

Post #15 by GPGoverMPG » Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:02 am

I went with the buy another motor and build it method. It has the benefit of spreading the cost out over time and you know it's what you want. Make a good plan that fits your needs and stick to it (a do as I say not as I do moment). There is a ton of good advice here and you should have a great experience. Good luck
71 F350 4x4 Super Duty 7.3 IDI
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