Click Here -> Please Consider Making a PayPal Contribution to the FordSix Forum!
2018 Contributors:
StarDiero75, curts56, DannyG, B RON CO, wsa111, Captainslow42, falconcritter
Econoline, THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER, 95FordFleetside, turbo6, Max_Effort, WorldChampGramp
cr_bobcat, C.S.Designs, pmuller9, gus91326, rwbrooks50, rocklord, drag-200stang, Big64my79Effie, CNC-Dude, gb500

2019 Contributors:
NJwpod, 1strodeo, mightynorseman, maxtrux, 6d7coupe, broncr, Phase3, 68Flareside240, bmbm40,
mustang6, WorldChampGramp, justintendo, BigBlue94, ags290, motorsickle1130, Rooster, ousooner919, ethanperry

Unknown->> M.Ketterer, T.Smith, J.Myers, P.McIntire - Please PM me (1966Mustang) and lemme know who you are!

Engine is back

Moderator: Mod Squad

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Engine is back

Post #1 by 68Flareside240 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 12:54 pm

Got my engine back last Wednesday. It looks really good. Guys did a really good job. And for $786. Pistons are Sealed Power 272AP. Pmuller you were correct on rods. After cleanup they’re C5AE. Crank machined 0.010”. Bearings are King’s MB7750SI 010 (mains) and CR640SI 010 (rods). Mahle 50664CP .040 rings and 95-3013 complete gasket kit. Melling M74 pump. I ordered the Erson 270101 cam and lifters last week on the 4th. It should be here this week I hope. My questions is regarding the cam and gear. The kit came with the Cloyes 2766S gear set which has no provision for advance/retard. The cam indicates to be installed 4 degrees advance. Should I go ahead and put an offset key in the cam gear and check it or install it straight up check it, and go from there? Or spring for their set with the adjustable crank gear? If I recall that one is steel on steel so it may be louder correct?

I appreciate all the advice on this build. I can’t wait to get to building it. I lost in a race with a thunderstorm on the way home with the block in the bed, so all the parts are currently in my living room. Had to get it inside and get it cleaned up and oil it up. Only place I can keep it climate controlled anyway. I’m glad I’m not married. Not too sure many wives would let you get away with it. Although a piece of glass over a short block would make a nice coffee table. :beer:

CNC-Dude
Registered User
Posts: 1469
Joined: Wed Nov 19, 2008 6:06 pm
Location: N. Ga.
Contact:

Re: Engine is back

Post #2 by CNC-Dude » Sun Jul 07, 2019 1:53 pm

You first need to verify the cams location relative to the cam card to know how much is needed to align with the cam specs. It could require more than expected, or even less but you have to verify and confirm which way to go first. Some camgrinders grind the advance into the cams already, so straight up could give you all that's needed to be spot on. Just check it first.
Image

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Engine is back

Post #3 by Max_Effort » Sun Jul 07, 2019 2:56 pm

You want to install per the cam card .050” timing check.

The 110+4 is stating that the intake centerline is 106* and the exhaust centerline is 114*. (Not that you should advance or retard the cam upon installation)

Pressed on gear timing sets are a PITA. If you can match up old and new sets, top and bottom gears, tooth to tooth, dot to dot and they are exactly the same, you could open the bore of the old gears with a sanding roll (die grinder or drill) until they just slip on. Check and set timing with that, then install the new gears and recheck.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #4 by 68Flareside240 » Sun Jul 07, 2019 5:49 pm

Thank you max. I had read something to that effect about the cam, but wanted to verify with you experts first. The shop is going to press the cam free of charge. Only thing will be my time and effort to go.

Anyone have a piston ring filer I can pay to borrow? Are the el cheap $50 Jegs, Summit, ProForm, etc good enough to get the Job done?

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Engine is back

Post #5 by Max_Effort » Sun Jul 07, 2019 8:12 pm

68Flareside240 wrote:Thank you max. I had read something to that effect about the cam, but wanted to verify with you experts first. The shop is going to press the cam free of charge. Only thing will be my time and effort to go.

Anyone have a piston ring filer I can pay to borrow? Are the el cheap $50 Jegs, Summit, ProForm, etc good enough to get the Job done?


Don’t trust that the cam timing will be correct by just installing the gears, you have to check.

Pre-gapped rings will usually be ok, a couple thou more than minimum, but measure. The $50 tool is fine if you bought file fit rings.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Engine is back

Post #6 by drag-200stang » Mon Jul 08, 2019 9:28 am

If you go to ''blocklayer.com'' you can input your cam card specs and print out a degree wheel with the open and closing events marked out on the degree wheel at the right places, should make it easier.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #7 by 68Flareside240 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 11:23 am

Thank you for that info on the cam template. I have often wondered why those damn wheels are so expensive. I want a big one, but don't want to shell out that kind of money. I have a friend with a printing business who can print that template off on a decal. Another guy I know can make me an aluminum disc to put it on.

As far as a fixture to mount a dial indicator for the valve events, I assume that many of the "kits" with the magnetic base and such likely won't work for the 6. Any tips and tricks for most reliable placement?

As for the rings, they are file to fit. Bore is 4.040 so by my calculations I am looking for 0.018" top ring, and 0.016" on the intermediate ring.

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Engine is back

Post #8 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Jul 08, 2019 12:53 pm

drag-200stang wrote:If you go to ''blocklayer.com'' you can input your cam card specs and print out a degree wheel with the open and closing events marked out on the degree wheel at the right places, should make it easier.

That is a great idea and great service that I will have to try; thanks.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3230
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Engine is back

Post #9 by pmuller9 » Mon Jul 08, 2019 2:16 pm

68Flareside240 wrote:As far as a fixture to mount a dial indicator for the valve events, I assume that many of the "kits" with the magnetic base and such likely won't work for the 6. Any tips and tricks for most reliable placement?

The mag base does work for the six.
You simply put a pushrod on the lifter and the dial indicator at the top end of the pushrod so the mag base can sit on the top of the block.

We have had cams come in at near neutral and 4 degrees retarded with the single keyway crank gear so you won't know until you install the cam and check it.

The Summit 11" degree wheel is a nice wheel fort the money.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum- ... /overview/

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #10 by 68Flareside240 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:22 am

If someone wouldn't mind looking at this and making sure I have it right. And to make sure I have my head wrapped around it, these marks are where I will be checking at 0.050 lift, not when the valve actually starts to open(or close), correct?

Grind: RV10H
110+4 Lobe Separation Angle
Overlap: 60.00
Intake Opens: 34.00 Exhaust Closes: 26.00
Intake Closes: 66.00 Exhaust Opens: 74.00
Running Clearance: 0.000 0.000 [Hot]
Valve Lift (Int / Exh): 0.448 0.448
Duration (Int / Exh): 280 280
Checking Figures @ .050" Tappet Rise
Overlap: -12.00
Intake Opens: -2.00 Exhaust Closes: -10.00
Intake Closes: 30.00 Exhaust Opens: 38.00
Duration Intake: 208.0 Duration Exhaust: 208.0
Lobe Lift Intake: 0.280 Lobe Lift Exhaust: 0.280
Intake Center Line: 106
Rocker Arm Ratio: 1.60

Image

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3230
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Engine is back

Post #11 by pmuller9 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 12:18 pm

You have it correctly marked!

The key is to zero the wheel with the #1 piston at TDC.

Some like to use a piston stop, I like to use the dial indicator.
When using the dial indicator it must be touching the center of the piston and you bring the piston up one side going clockwise then counter clockwise for the other so the crank is always pushing on the connecting rod thereby eliminating the rod bearing clearance.

Example: If you measure the piston .100" in the cylinder from TDC the wheel will show that piston position as 16 degrees before and after TDC when the wheel is zeroed.
Last edited by pmuller9 on Thu Jul 11, 2019 10:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Engine is back

Post #12 by drag-200stang » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:09 pm

Yes .050 from the cam base circle at the lifter by way of pushrod. Make sure that the dial indicator is firm and does not move on you..I like to adjust the indicator to .100 on the base circle so it is loaded some, just subtract .100 for you readings. Turn the crank clock wise only.
They say to use a solid lifter so leak down does not effect reading..
Last edited by drag-200stang on Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #13 by 68Flareside240 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 7:55 pm

Yessir, I know about all that stuff. I believe using the hydraulic lifter for a solid point doesn’t affect the dial indicator. It will however affect readings if the weight of the Valvetrain is on it and you're measuring off the valve. That’s why they have those reduced weight valve spring in “precision” cam degree kits so it won’t compress the lifter from what I’ve gathered.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 1107
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Engine is back

Post #14 by drag-200stang » Tue Jul 09, 2019 8:19 pm

I think that most cam mfg. measure off the lifter and not the valve and have edited my earlier post to reflect that.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 3230
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Engine is back

Post #15 by pmuller9 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 9:47 pm

68Flareside240 wrote: That’s why they have those reduced weight valve spring in “precision” cam degree kits so it won’t compress the lifter from what I’ve gathered.

The light valve spring is used more for checking valve to piston clearance and to check valve train geometry.
Cam measurements at this performance level is taken off the lifter directly without any load.
A pushrod can be used as an extension of the dial indicator in this case as the weight of the pushrod will not compress the hydraulic lifter.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #16 by 68Flareside240 » Tue Jul 09, 2019 11:56 pm

The cam came this evening. It, 12 lifters, some oil additive and moly lube. The cam came with Joe Gibbs Assembly grease. The cam also cam with a “cam lift report” from the date of manufacture. I will post a image of it once I scan it in. Pretty impressed with shipping. I ordered it on the 4th of a July and it came today. They are currently listed as out of stock so I'm glad I got it ordered.

Max_Effort
Registered User
Posts: 413
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:26 pm

Re: Engine is back

Post #17 by Max_Effort » Wed Jul 10, 2019 9:31 pm

68Flareside240 wrote:The cam came this evening. It, 12 lifters, some oil additive and moly lube. The cam came with Joe Gibbs Assembly grease. The cam also cam with a “cam lift report” from the date of manufacture. I will post a image of it once I scan it in. Pretty impressed with shipping. I ordered it on the 4th of a July and it came today. They are currently listed as out of stock so I'm glad I got it ordered.


Erson is making a high quality product. The machine operators are paid hourly, not by the piece. The operators name is engraved in the back of every camshaft they grind. There is a serial number engraved in the back of the cam. Every cam is Adcole measured with the Campro system and the data sheet, with the serial number is kept on file and a copy of the data sheet is shipped with the camshaft.

I also know that Mike Jones (Jones Cam Design) Campro measures every cam he makes.

I would use the lube provided, but break the cam in with Driven BR oil.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #18 by 68Flareside240 » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:23 pm

Well, pretty much have everything now to build the motor. Piston ring file came in last Friday, and I set the gaps on my rings. Had to take 0.001" off of three rings. Of course had I not bought the ring filer, they would have all been way off. Rings are all installed on pistons and rotating smoothly.

Next step I plan to do is install crank and measure main clearance. Once that is confirmed ok, will disassemble everything and give it a deep cleaning before taping it off and painting the block. Once complete, I plan to install crank and torque to spec. Make sure everything rotates ok. After that, I plan on installing pistons and checking rod bearings and then assembling/torquing one by one.

I ordered this aluminum disc today off ebay. Seemed like a great price and would allow me to affix the cam degree wheel decal my friend is printing for me. https://www.ebay.com/itm/201988333587.

Ordered a cheap dial indicator and magnetic base off of Amazon, seems to be of OK quality. From what I read they are very accurate, just not quite as refined in fit and finish as the Starret offerings. We will see how it works.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #19 by 68Flareside240 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:06 am

Finally got around to cleaning the crank up and installing main bearings and checking the clearance on them. Had to swap two bearing halves but got all the clearances to between 0.0008-0.0013. However, I noticed that there is a nick on the journal surface of one of the thrust bearings halves. I cannot feel any raised material out of it, and it's in the middle of the bearing surface. Some say it's ok, others say replace. I'd like to replace it for piece of mind, but I cannot find an individual thrust bearing. I suppose I am going to call King and see if they will send me a new thrust bearing. Hate to ask that of them but this wasn't my mistake. I put assembly lube and torqued the crank in and it rotates very smoothly. Really depressing as I wanted to get the pistons and cam installed this weekend... Nothing I do ever goes smoothly.

User avatar
woodbutcher
VIP Member
Posts: 2049
Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 10:14 pm
Location: LaFollette Tn.

Re: Engine is back

Post #20 by woodbutcher » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:23 am

:hmmm: Sounds like a fella named"Murphy"has come to live at your house.
Good luck.Have fun.Be safe.
Leo
"People never lie so much as after a hunt,during a war,or before an election".
Otto von Bismarck

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Engine is back

Post #21 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Aug 09, 2019 11:59 am

Gently rub the nicked bearing face on some 1000 grit wet-or-dry sandpaper until the area around the nick is smooth and shiny. Truth be told it would probably be fine as is - the first time the crank flange presses against it it will burnish in place. Be sure to preload the crank - first in the rearward direction and then in the forward direction before torquing down the cap to fully align both halves of the bearing shell. Check to see if end play is to spec.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #22 by 68Flareside240 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:25 pm

Thanks FTF, that makes me feel better. Dad told me to do the same, and not worry about it. But the OCD in me wanted to replace it now before it bit me later. I will polish it up and move forward. As for main torque, my reference lists spec at 80 lb-ft. Connecting rod torque is 42 lb ft. If someone could confirm that as correct, thank you.

I haven't gotten the head cleaned up but I looked and there seems to be some carbon still left in the intake ports. I would also like to smooth the ports out a little. Should I remove the valves to perform this task with a rotary tool, or leave them in place and just clean it out well?

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Engine is back

Post #23 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:34 pm

68Flareside240 wrote: Should I remove the valves to perform this task with a rotary tool, or leave them in place and just clean it out well?

Absolutely. Do not be concerned with a little carbon in the port unless it is near the guide bosses. Upstream of that you can just take it out with a rotary wire brush in a drill or grinder. Around the guides / bowls is where I see it really badly built up. Remove the valves and be VERY careful not to nick the valve seat. Use a slow speed to keep control - even a knife blade for the big chunks. Smooth the sharp machining and casting edges and call it done. It wouldn't hurt to lap the valves back in if you are not going to do a valve job. Slowly and carefully...
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #24 by 68Flareside240 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 12:59 pm

Thank you for the input. The shop removed the valves, tapped the remaining bosses for studs, and did a valve job. I just want to clean and smooth things out while I have the head out.

User avatar
68Flareside240
Registered User
Posts: 93
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:52 am
Location: Selma, AL

Re: Engine is back

Post #25 by 68Flareside240 » Sun Aug 11, 2019 2:19 pm

Bottom end is installed and everything is smooth as silk. Got the cam installed yesterday but cannot get the crank gear on. Assume I'm gonna have to get it warm and press it on with a large socket and a longer 5/8-18 bolt
Image

Image

Image

Image

User avatar
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
VIP Member
Posts: 6019
Joined: Sat Nov 09, 2002 9:25 pm
Location: FRENCHTOWN

Re: Engine is back

Post #26 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Sun Aug 11, 2019 7:19 pm

Clean the snout and lightly grease it. It will go on without heat. I use sections of pipe cut to length with a large flat washer. I think I have two different lengths of pipe to secure it totally and securely. Bolt is 5/8 NF and has a 15/16 hex head size.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 10 guests