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Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

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Haywood
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Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #1 by Haywood » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:24 am

I'm considering going with some of the improved design injectors in my '87 4.9, and wondering if anyone here has any knowledge on this. I believe there is a connector difference, and there are lots of adapters out there. I'm unfamiliar with the naming, I keep seeing EV1 and EV6 not sure what is what. The injectors I'm considering using, have a square hole with a D index on one side, & 2 connectors inside. I haven't pulled the intake to look at the connectors. The other consideration is the limited space, some of the adapters have a wire between, allowing for tighter spaces, which I suspect may be needed, as things already look a bit crowded in that area. Thank you in advance.

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MechRick
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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #2 by MechRick » Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:28 pm

EV1 is the old school Bosch-style connector, EV6 is the new style.

You can buy adapters to mate EV1 connectors to EV6 injectors (or vise versa).

I find it cleaner (and cheaper) to visit a junk yard and whack the connectors off the correct harness.

The Ford EV6 injector connectors are made of plastic and tend to break.

To my knowledge there are no 14 lb-hr EV6-style injectors. Even if there are, the opening times and fuel delivery curves may be different and may not work with the stock PCM.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Haywood
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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #3 by Haywood » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:14 pm

"To my knowledge there are no 14 lb-hr EV6-style injectors. Even if there are, the opening times and fuel delivery curves may be different and may not work with the stock PCM."
There is still time to talk me out of this, I'm at wits end. the truck has had every sensor replaced, both fuel pumps, FPR, still it runs very lean, it won't even idle till it warms up at least enough to show in the gauge. It won't take throttle, it just breaks up and sounds different. Makes so little power it will only pull itself in first, if you slip the clutch. It is holding about 53 psi on the fuel rail when it is running it holds 18 to 21 on vacuum. The ignition was checked with a buzz box, acted exactly the same. I'm almost considering going to a carb, and for me that is really desperate, I love EFI, and hate carbs. BTW the injectors I have in mind were salvaged from a 4.6, and are orange, I think that is 19, I was hoping the ECU would just adjust the open time down to compensate.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #4 by bubba22349 » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:21 pm

Have you done a compression test yet on your engine? Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #5 by Haywood » Thu Jan 16, 2020 9:30 am

"Have you done a compression test yet on your engine? Good luck"
Not yet, but it cranks like there is plenty, and it should run better than this on 4 cylinders :bang:

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #6 by MechRick » Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:59 am

Haywood wrote: It is holding about 53 psi on the fuel rail when it is running it holds 18 to 21 on vacuum


18 to 21 psi fuel, or engine vacuum?

You should be seeing close to 60 psi without vacuum connected to the regulator, and over 45 psi idling with the vacuum hose connected.

The '87 fuel system has a rail pump and in tank pump(s). Both pumps can fail, with different symptoms.

The high pressure pump can fail outright, or start to lose pressure with age.

The in tank pump can fail, and if you live somewhere cool, you might never know. But on a hot day, when the fuel heats up, the slight amount of vacuum needed to pull the fuel up out of the tank can cause it to vaporize (vapor lock).

Yours sounds like it may need a fuel pressure regulator.

Ordinarily, to check the pump we would dead head it (briefly). By watching the fuel pressure gauge and pinching off the return line, you can health-check the rail pump. It should be able to climb above 90 psi. You don't want to hold it very long, the short hose connecting the pump to the sender can blow.

I don't recommend that process with plastic fuel lines. Pinching them off can kink them and cause a leak.

Another way to do it, tape the fuel pressure gauge to the windshield and go for a drive with a couple of WOT pulls. A pump that is able to provide adequate pressure at idle may not be able to provide enough fuel (at the correct pressure) under load.

Have you checked it for codes?
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #7 by Haywood » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:14 pm

"18 to 21 psi fuel, or engine vacuum?"
That was inches of vacuum. the fuel pressure is 53 psi with the vacuum FPR disconnected, 45 psi with it connected. Connecting it though makes things go down hill fast, it really wants those last few psi & acts like it would appreciate about 10 more. I'm only using the front tank at this point, The Fuel pressure regulator, inline pump, filter and in tank pump have been changed recently, the in tank one is a Walbro 255, which ought to provide enough pressure by itself. this is why I'm pulling my hair out over this one. By all tests it should just drive away. Everything that was changed was after the problem started, this one is a farm truck, and mostly gets little attention. that's the main reason for my reluctance to carb it, sitting with today's fuel is death. That's why I got rid of my one ton, every time I wanted to use it, it needed the carb looked at.

"Another way to do it, tape the fuel pressure gauge to the windshield and go for a drive with a couple of WOT pulls. A pump that is able to provide adequate pressure at idle may not be able to provide enough fuel (at the correct pressure) under load."
I have a pressure guage trapped under the windshield wiper, but it is running much too poorly for what you suggest, getting it on the lift takes several tries and starts & stalls. If it would do WOT pulls this would labeled good enough.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #8 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:54 pm

Haywood wrote:... sitting with today's fuel is death. That's why I got rid of my one ton, every time I wanted to use it, it needed the carb looked at...

I love EFI.

But for a farm truck that sees limited use I wonder if a carb would be simpler and cheaper to own and you could put a dose of StaBil fuel stabilizer in every tank of gas.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #9 by Shorty » Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:30 pm

I had a 95 once with the 2 tanks that I only used the front tank and somehow it would gradually fill the back tank up as I drove. Took a long time and I never noticed a drop in performance just poor fuel economy. If this bypass happened quicker could this result in too much pressure drop and a reduction in power? If you don't use the back tank did you eliminate it and change the plumbing?
85 F150 on 78 bronco frame C6 np205 welded dana44 front, trussed posi nine inch rear. EFI exhaust manifolds into one 2 1/2" rolls on 35x12.5x15 Maxxis Trepador.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #10 by Sevensecondsuv » Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:35 pm

Have you checked the O2 sensor, map sensor, coolant temp sensor, and tps? Those are the main inputs to fuel trim calculation....

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #11 by MechRick » Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:29 pm

See if you can get it through a self test. Or hopefully a running test.

The older Ford stuff had some fairly good self diagnostic capability.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #12 by Haywood » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:47 pm

Sevensecondsuv wrote:Have you checked the O2 sensor, map sensor, coolant temp sensor, and tps? Those are the main inputs to fuel trim calculation....

All but the O2 sensor have been replaced, I did try it with the O2 disconnected, no change. There is a possibility I got a bad replacement part, the map has been done twice, so I'm pretty sure that's ok the temp is new, the TPS is new, I tend to buy Motor-craft parts for what that is worth. I guess I can throw an O2 at it, I've already spent a couple times what it is worth even with a full tank of gas.

I'm under the belief that on cold start the O2 is out of the game in open loop. If I'm wrong about that, I'd like to be set straight.
Last edited by Haywood on Thu Jan 16, 2020 11:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #13 by Haywood » Thu Jan 16, 2020 10:51 pm

MechRick wrote:See if you can get it through a self test. Or hopefully a running test.

The older Ford stuff had some fairly good self diagnostic capability.

I borrowed an OBD1 reader for ford, but apparently the light is burned out, it beeps to show it is connected,but no flash. I guess I'll have to learn the paper clip method.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #14 by bubba22349 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 11:53 am

You can also use an analog volt / ohm meter by counting the long and short needle swings you get the code. Good luck :thumbup: :nod:
A bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

I am still hunting for a project car to build but with my current low budget it's not looking so good. My Ex- Fleet of Sixes these are all long gone! :bang: 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #15 by Sevensecondsuv » Fri Jan 17, 2020 1:39 pm

Some more random thoughts.

1. If there's no CEL, the codes probably won't tell you much. Running that awful and no CEL tells me the computer thinks everything's fine when it actually isn't.

2. A new O2S couldn't hurt, but you're right that it isn't used for a cold start.

3. A wiring issue with one or more sensors can really throw things off. You might try tracing each circuit from the sensor to the ECU and verify continuity and no shorts to ground or other wires.

4. The ECU itself could also have failed. This is not common, but does happen. You might try taking it out and looking at the board for obvious problems like burnt components or a leaky capacitor.

5. It could be the injectors are clogged, although I've never heard of them getting bad enough to cause the issues you're describing. New ones aren't terribly expensive, but I've had good luck just soaking them in brake cleaner for a few days and then installing new filter baskets and o rings.

Keep at it though, eventually you'll find the problem and have a eureka moment. Nice thing about EFI is that once you find and correct the issue, it'll run perfect again.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #16 by Haywood » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:35 pm

Sevensecondsuv wrote:Some more random thoughts.

1. If there's no CEL, the codes probably won't tell you much. Running that awful and no CEL tells me the computer thinks everything's fine when it actually isn't.

2. A new O2S couldn't hurt, but you're right that it isn't used for a cold start.

3. A wiring issue with one or more sensors can really throw things off. You might try tracing each circuit from the sensor to the ECU and verify continuity and no shorts to ground or other wires.

4. The ECU itself could also have failed. This is not common, but does happen. You might try taking it out and looking at the board for obvious problems like burnt components or a leaky capacitor.

5. It could be the injectors are clogged, although I've never heard of them getting bad enough to cause the issues you're describing. New ones aren't terribly expensive, but I've had good luck just soaking them in brake cleaner for a few days and then installing new filter baskets and o rings.

Keep at it though, eventually you'll find the problem and have a eureka moment. Nice thing about EFI is that once you find and correct the issue, it'll run perfect again.


I have done a pull and visually check on the computer early in this game. everything looks fine in there, but I can't see inside IC chips, I was saving replacing that as a last resort, but I'm not taking it off the table. wouldn't cost much more than the Walbro pump.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #17 by MechRick » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:45 pm

1987 was the first year for EFI for the six. Some of those older trucks didn't have a check engine light.

You could probably unplug the O2 sensor and it just wouldn't care. Those older Fords would substitute a base fuel map with a dead O2 sensor that was very close. It might fail an emission test, or use a bit more fuel, but it would run just fine (which is why Ford didn't bother with a check engine lamp).

All is well, though. The circuit that would normally light the bulb is at the underhood check connector.

The probable cause list for a lean running condition is pretty short on any MAP sensor equipped vehicle. But are you sure it's lean?

The KOEO and KOER tests will check all of the relevant circuits for you. They will also check the signals coming out of the distributor. If the truck is truly lean, they will likely tell you why.

Gasoline distributors have been supplying ethanol-enhanced fuel to stations since 1988-ish. Say what you will about alcohol's adverse affects on fuel systems, but it makes great injector cleaner. It's not impossible you have clogged injectors, but it is unlikely.

It is possible your PCM is failing. Pop it out and take the cover off. Look for white stains under the electrolytics, or swelling (the tops should be flat, not concave).

Also, blow through the MAP hose going to the intake. Sometimes they plug with carbon where the fitting screws in the intake...

And unscrew the intake air temp sensor, they tend to attract a ball of goop with age. I like to move them to the airbox.
Last edited by MechRick on Fri Jan 17, 2020 8:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #18 by MechRick » Fri Jan 17, 2020 3:54 pm

One other thought, did you rule out a plugged exhaust?
1994 F150, 4.9L/ZF 5 speed, C-Vic police driveshaft
EFI head w/mild port work, 3 angle valve job
1996 long block, stock pistons, ARP rod bolts
Stock cam, aluminum cam gear
Hedman header, full mandrel bent duals, crossover, super turbos
http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=73244
Bronco II with a 2.3L swap http://fordsix.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=72863
1988 F250 2x4, 460 ZF 5 speed.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #19 by Haywood » Fri Jan 17, 2020 4:29 pm

MechRick wrote:One other thought, did you rule out a plugged exhaust?
I've considered that, not much way to tell, except, disconnect it and try it out. It certainly "sounds" open, I had a car plug up once, and you could hear it in the exhaust.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #20 by Wesman07 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 5:57 pm

Do you know your lean or think your lean?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #21 by Haywood » Fri Jan 17, 2020 9:01 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Do you know your lean or think your lean?

Able to prove it with a gauge? No. It certainly shows all the signs of lean; won't idle till warm, won't take throttle, runs considerably better with the vacuum hose off the FPR, @ 45 psi barley runs at all, @ 53 psi begins to be able to move under its own power so long as you are willing to rev it unmercifully, and slip the clutch.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #22 by Wesman07 » Fri Jan 17, 2020 10:13 pm

Your on to something but it shouldn’t run that bad with that much fuel pressure.

Is it a single cylinder misfire? Check all the plugs as they can be a good indicator.

If not, put a timing light on it. Your fuel and spark timing are connected.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #23 by Wesman07 » Sat Jan 18, 2020 2:01 pm

Scratch that.

I’m wondering if you have an intake leak.
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #24 by Haywood » Sat Jan 18, 2020 4:17 pm

Wesman07 wrote:Scratch that.

I’m wondering if you have an intake leak.

The high vacuum readings, pretty much eliminate that in my mind. My oldest son and his buddy looked at it today, found a couple of bad grounds, which once repaired made a significant difference. Perhaps the injectors were getting flakey power. Still has a little stumble, but it will pull itself now. They want put an adjustable FPR on it. they blew a slight bit of compressed air into the FPR vacuum line, the pressure shot up to 65, and it ran flawlessly. now the debate on just using a Mustang one with an adapter plate, or an external one.

Anyone got a link to the article on installing a ford V* fuel pressure regulator on the 4.9?

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #25 by Sevensecondsuv » Sun Jan 19, 2020 8:17 pm

Those grounds are capable of causing all kinds of shenanigans!

I'd say keep working on the wiring and grounds until it's 100%. Trace every circuit. And double check all the sensors. An adjustable fpr is just going to be a bandaid.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #26 by Haywood » Tue Jan 21, 2020 10:13 pm

Just like to say thanks to all who replied, it got sorted, not the way I suspected, but the blue truck lives to fight another day. I don't feel too bad about the parts thrown at it, at its age they should have been changed anyhow. Again a giant :thanks: all Ya-all. :nod: :thumbup:

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #27 by Sevensecondsuv » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:13 pm

Care to share what the issue was? I always like to hear the solution so I can hopefully remember it the next time my old junk starts acting up.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #28 by Haywood » Wed Jan 22, 2020 5:06 pm

Sevensecondsuv wrote:Care to share what the issue was? I always like to hear the solution so I can hopefully remember it the next time my old junk starts acting up.

Pretty much the bad grounds, they went back through the sensors once it would idle, the year older Motorcraft MAP sensor worked better than the recent AutoZone one, so we went back to that. I'd lost heart so much by that point, the Motorcraft was still bolted to the firewall, the AZ one just got Zip-tied in. Anyhow it was a lot of slightly better, but the turning point was the discovery of the lost grounds. That surprised me; in that the battery grounds to the alternator bracket, the engine should be getting its strong, and first. but any time there are gaskets involved, an electrically isolated part can happen.

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Re: Old connector to new type fuelinjector adapter

Post #29 by Sevensecondsuv » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:18 pm

Yeah those grounds are tough. I once chased a weird miss around for 2 months and $300 worth of sensors and ignition components before I figured out it was a corroded ground strap from the firewall to the intake manifold where the ignition module was mounted.

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