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Camshaft help

Moderator: Mod Squad

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mrlol31443
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Camshaft help

Post #1 by mrlol31443 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 2:18 pm

Hello everyone! I have a 96 300 and I am wondering which camshaft I can put in it. I saw a kit on summit racing and I was informed that "the Comp 268 cam causing detonation on the 1987 and later EFI engines. My advice is not to use that camshaft." sorry for posting in a sticky as well. What would be a better kit to use that would not cause me issues. If not a kit then the parts I would need. I would like to just have more overall torque (an increase in HP isnt a bad thing ether) but not have to upgrade the intake and exhaust systems as that is beyond my knowledge.
I don't plan on taking my six thousand pound truck to the drag strip but you never know
Not a mechanic but my wife likes to tell her parents I can fix their cars
If your computer is broken PM me and I can probably fix it

BigBlue94
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #2 by BigBlue94 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:18 pm

Jerry @ Schneider racing can help you. They can easily custom grind one too. Of course a lot of other companies will too. Schneider grinds every cam to order so a custom one isnt much if any more cost wise.
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

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mrlol31443
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #3 by mrlol31443 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 3:27 pm

Is their a an Intake\Exhaust Duration and lift measurement i should look for? I want it to sound nice as well but its not necessary.
I don't plan on taking my six thousand pound truck to the drag strip but you never know
Not a mechanic but my wife likes to tell her parents I can fix their cars
If your computer is broken PM me and I can probably fix it

pmuller9
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 7:44 pm

The Schneider 131H (13910) .464”/.464” 208/208 262/262 112deg is a good choice.
It has a wider 112 degree lobe separation angle which will keep the stock EFI system happy.
The .464" valve lift has enough margin to the .500" valve lift limit of the EFI head.

If you are not going to rev the engine past 3500 rpm the stock valve springs will work fine.
You will need new lifters.

You should replace the fiber timing gears with metal gears.
You will need to check the cam timing when you install the cam to make sure it is not too advanced to prevent detonation on regular octane pump gas.
We can show you how.

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mrlol31443
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #5 by mrlol31443 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 8:21 pm

pmuller9 wrote:The Schneider 131H (13910) .464”/.464” 208/208 262/262 112deg is a good choice.
It has a wider 112 degree lobe separation angle which will keep the stock EFI system happy.
The .464" valve lift has enough margin to the .500" valve lift limit of the EFI head.

If you are not going to rev the engine past 3500 rpm the stock valve springs will work fine.
You will need new lifters.

You should replace the fiber timing gears with metal gears.
You will need to check the cam timing when you install the cam to make sure it is not too advanced to prevent detonation on regular octane pump gas.
We can show you how.


Ok awesome, I would like to upgrade the springs even if I don’t go above 3500 rpm (the truck has 280k miles) what would the specs on those be? And help on the timing would be awesome. Where would the best place to find metal gears from? Summit racing has some but is there a cheaper alternative?
I don't plan on taking my six thousand pound truck to the drag strip but you never know
Not a mechanic but my wife likes to tell her parents I can fix their cars
If your computer is broken PM me and I can probably fix it

pmuller9
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Fri Aug 28, 2020 10:22 pm

mrlol31443 wrote:I would like to upgrade the springs even if I don’t go above 3500 rpm (the truck has 280k miles) what would the specs on those be? And help on the timing would be awesome. Where would the best place to find metal gears from? Summit racing has some but is there a cheaper alternative?

The Comp 903 springs are the correct spring for the EFI head and the above cam.
They are close to the stock spring rate.

The exhaust retainers with the rotator need to be replaced with six stock intake retainers.
The EFI head valves are shorter than the pre-1985 carburetor heads and the installed spring height will be round 1.650" which will give a little more pressure than the stock springs.

The Melling gear set from Jegs is the last gear set on the planet that has a multi keyway crank gear so you can set the cam timing.
Get one while they still have inventory.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/2766AS/10002/-1

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mrlol31443
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #7 by mrlol31443 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:24 am

pmuller9 wrote:The Comp 903 springs are the correct spring for the EFI head and the above cam.
They are close to the stock spring rate.

The exhaust retainers with the rotator need to be replaced with six stock intake retainers.
The EFI head valves are shorter than the pre-1985 carburetor heads and the installed spring height will be round 1.650" which will give a little more pressure than the stock springs.

The Melling gear set from Jegs is the last gear set on the planet that has a multi keyway crank gear so you can set the cam timing.
Get one while they still have inventory.
https://www.jegs.com/i/Melling/689/2766AS/10002/-1


Ok so the last thing i need to know is what kind of tool will i need to pull the gears off, I haven't found any videos on how to do so, i'm a little confused on that.
I don't plan on taking my six thousand pound truck to the drag strip but you never know
Not a mechanic but my wife likes to tell her parents I can fix their cars
If your computer is broken PM me and I can probably fix it

pmuller9
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #8 by pmuller9 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:53 am

No one has come up with a good way to remove the fiber gear while still in the engine.

Since you are changing camshafts the easiest way to remove the fiber gear is to remove the camshaft and press the cam snout out of the gear.

BigBlue94
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #9 by BigBlue94 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:05 am

If you go with a Schneider cam, you must use their lifters and break in additive for them to warranty any issues. You don't need the added oil hole they offer on the lifters.
1985 Bronco. 309ci I6, NP435, 4.56 gears, Detroit locker and tru-trac, 4" lift, and 37" swamper tires. The 309 is 9.75:1 CR with a Schneider 140H cam, 4bbl, roller rockers, larger valves, and headers.

Wesman07
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #10 by Wesman07 » Wed Sep 02, 2020 2:58 pm

I drilled and tapped the fiber cam gear close to the base circle in two or three locations. You can then thread a few bolts in and use the bolt heads to pull from
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

sdiesel
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #11 by sdiesel » Thu Sep 03, 2020 7:33 pm

The 2766s smelling appears to be course tooth and nylon cam gear teeth
Can someone endorse that view or disabuse me of it ?

Also, is there not someone here , with the level of skill these board members possess, that can modify crank gears at a less-than-100 dollar price?

Edit: the 2766s is a fiber cam gear
The 2766As is aluminium cam gear,
Both appear th be course tooth to my eyes

Edit p.s.
I have heard that degreeing and correcting cam timing using the factory grind can net a very good result.
Is this true?
I have been told the gr8nd itself is plenty healthy for a truck, but is not usable due to locked cam timing
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: Camshaft help

Post #12 by Firepower354 » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:13 pm

I'm sending one of my fine-tooth crank gears to a machinist buddy this week to test the fea$ibility of cutting a few extra keyways. The usual +/- 4 degrees seem logical? Add + 2/6/8 as well, for the fussier?

I'm sure I can sort the math, but has anyone messed with shimming either the cam or crank gear to fine-tune cam timing, since the angle cut teeth would rotate the shaft?
It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

sixtseventwo4d
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #13 by sixtseventwo4d » Sat Sep 05, 2020 7:36 pm

The melling 2766AS should have the 3 keyways already and yes they're aluminum and steel, I ordered through Jegs; 2 sets actually to be certain. I also personally spoke to a melling sales rep who confirmed they do have 3 keyways. You will most likely have to stand firm to get this part # as I have read that another member didn't get what they ordered.

sixtseventwo4d
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #14 by sixtseventwo4d » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:20 pm

I'm sure I can sort the math, but has anyone messed with shimming either the cam or crank gear to fine-tune cam timing, since the angle cut teeth would rotate the shaft?[/quote]

https://headbolts.com/fkf-4-Engine-fini ... liter.html

Perhaps this would be a consideration for what your wanting.

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THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #15 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:25 pm

IIRC the backlash on the gears id .002" - .006" and the axial clearance is .006 max. I doubt that reducing these clearances will substantially affect the cam performance and of course there is risk to reducing clearances under minimums.
Last edited by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

sixtseventwo4d
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Re: Camshaft help

Post #16 by sixtseventwo4d » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:39 pm

2750AS Engine Timing Gear Set 4.9L, L6, 4917cc, 300CID Standard Duty, Aluminum Camshaft Gear
2764S Engine Timing Gear Set 4.9L, L6, 4917cc, 300CID Cast Iron Camshaft Gear
2766AS Engine Timing Gear Set 4.9L, L6, 4917cc, 300CID Heavy Duty, Aluminum Camshaft Gear
2766S Engine Timing Gear Set 4.9L, L6, 4917cc, 300CID Fiber Camshaft Gear

This info was copied and pasted directly from melling

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