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So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

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sdiesel
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So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #1 by sdiesel » Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:28 pm

I'm working this summer on fire crew many many miles from civilization. In this area there was a gm garage that serviced sold and traded to the local population of ranchers and farmers.
Loyalty in remote areas is fierce. There are dozens of very old gm cars and trucks about. Pickups 2 and 4 wheel drive, the deliriously beautiful 57 curve pickup is common.

Of course I ruminate on what the hack I'm doing .Were I to build up my ford with Chevy parts,why not just build a Chevy...... its not so easy as that.

I began looking into 292 turbo, there really isn't much ive seen yet.
The gm head appears to be very constricted. It seems siamesed.
But it is a simple thing working on where all parts interchange.

I discovered that SPA makes a turbo manifold for the gm six but not ours( another post for later).

What I'm trying to say is the fellows doing the GM thang, address issues we to have in setting up the turbo it might be a source to remember when looking into how others have gone down the turbo path.


Does the 300 flow better naturally? With individual ports?

There are a pile of performance manifolds and such for the 292, that we don't get. I saw a blower manifold for pete's sake,

How can we get these made for the 300?


https://www.theturboforums.com/threads/ ... ix.303522/
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #2 by Firepower354 » Fri Sep 18, 2020 1:03 pm

The Chevy head isn't as awful as first glance suggests, and plenty of power potential.
https://www.12bolt.com/65279inline-cyli ... 65279.html
It gets 10MPG, but goes up to 14 if I lie.

sdiesel
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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #3 by sdiesel » Fri Sep 18, 2020 5:28 pm

Not understanding the chart especially as compared to our 300. But appears the modifications are similar to what many of us are doing. Larger valves, port, and so on the " pump thing" seems to be his invention for some kind of improvement doubt it applies to us

None the less its enjoyable to observe other inline turbo ideas.
And SPA USA needs to hear from us about a turbo manifold!!!!!
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #4 by pmuller9 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 11:56 am

sdiesel wrote:So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Not really a need but can be an option.

The larger SI 4.810" long valves are strictly a Ford 300 dimension.
The 240 rods are Ford.
Optional pistons are Ford.
1.6 ratio rocker arms are Ford. The BBC rockers are not recommended for use on the 300 head.

Just saying

sdiesel
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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #5 by sdiesel » Mon Sep 21, 2020 1:24 pm

I defer to your extraordinary accumulation of knowledge of these facts.
I also lay claim to journalistic impudence.

And the reference is to those very components you mention.
Its easier ,and likely of lesser cost to install GM spec components.
Even so the joke remains intact, to make my ford go zoom, I'm relying , to some extent on GM engineers design parameters, which is cool.
The 300 for a variety of reason is a better candidate for small cube power than is the 292 GM.

Here in the sticks where the tantalizing 57 gm is common, I've relished the fantasy of the 57 GM CAB on a ford built chassis easily the better frame drive train of the two manufacturers.

But whom may we thank for the extraordinary run of styling successes of the late 50's of the last century, across all the platforms. Truly stunning, with , I feel the gm pickup being first among equals.
Ford and Chrysler even IH, to some extent.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #6 by pmuller9 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 4:22 pm

I realize that the Chevy parts reference was just a way to slide into the subject matter.
I thought it was creative as well as humorous.
I tried but just couldn't resist picking on the "needs" adverb.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #7 by bubba22349 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 5:53 pm

sdiesel wrote:I defer to your extraordinary accumulation of knowledge of these facts.
I also lay claim to journalistic impudence.

And the reference is to those very components you mention.
Its easier ,and likely of lesser cost to install GM spec components.
Even so the joke remains intact, to make my ford go zoom, I'm relying , to some extent on GM engineers design parameters, which is cool.
The 300 for a variety of reason is a better candidate for small cube power than is the 292 GM.

Here in the sticks where the tantalizing 57 gm is common, I've relished the fantasy of the 57 GM CAB on a ford built chassis easily the better frame drive train of the two manufacturers.

But whom may we thank for the extraordinary run of styling successes of the late 50's of the last century, across all the platforms. Truly stunning, with , I feel the gm pickup being first among equals.
Ford and Chrysler even IH, to some extent.


In at least a big part the styling of the GM models was headed by its V. P. Harley J. Earl from somtime in the 1930's until his retirement in 1958 when he finished up work on the 1960 to 62 year models. It is said he was the first stylist to rise to that high of a corporate position during those years he was fully in charge and had the final say of all GM model designs.

The mid 1950's were the high point of the Horse Power wars and also Styling was a very big deal too as the manufactures worked hard to get the most total sales for each year model. In 1957 Ford out sold the revamped Tri-Five 57 Chevy with the all new 1957 model, yet today you hardly see very many of these good looking and driving old Fords. To me the 1956 F100 is a far better looking pickup then those 1955 to 57 Chevy pickups, but then thats just me. :thumbup: :nod:
Even a bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

Current project is a 1988 John Deere 420 Garden Tractor I need a few small parts to get it fixed, plus some cosmetic items, maybe a few attachments, if you happen to have or know of JD 420 parts would welcome the help!

My Ex-Inline 6 Fleet 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #8 by sdiesel » Mon Sep 21, 2020 6:33 pm

pmuller9 wrote:I realize that the Chevy parts reference was just a way to slide into the subject matter.
I thought it was creative as well as humorous.
I tried but just couldn't resist picking on the "needs" adverb.



precisely!

And it is fun to peek across the fence into the neighbor shop to see how they handle the serious business of turbocharging an engine that was never meant to be turbocharged by the original design.
Sneaking into GM garages is almost like stealing kisses from my best friends girl....

I did not find as robust a community on the gm side for turbocharged 292's,The 250 seems at first glance to be a more popular candidate.for whatever reason.
The comments I read on the forums, seem to paint a picture of even cheaper cheapskates than generally found on those forums, ( except the A body mopar guys), and an emphasis on the gm guys for style and zip, which generally means a boring v8 in some old car.

So without substantial digging I do not see as a group the GM guys formulating and experimenting with the box nearly as in depth as I see on this forum. At same time I admit to not ever straying far from this page in any event, so my ignorance may simply be lack of exposure

To continue on a different tack, I have made contact with SPA USA. Asking them about the possibility of a turbo manifold. If I get return fire I will report back. I'm all in favor of easier modification especially if it means less effort for me.

The Ford's of the fifties were pure class. My dear I'm daddy has a pickup of that era by ford. Its the year that's different from the year preceding or the year following. Something about the windows or such. But,,,,its got a Chevy engine so than automatic, and yawn.... I'm already bored with it.


Conversely the knot-head ( in a most loving way I meant that pa), took a perfect perfect 57 bel air,.....and spent my inheritance shoving a viper under the hood. The D...Fool could have bought an apartment complex with the money he shoveled into that wreck, granted the car did a SEMA show and that spun pa propeller, but c'mon. Its a f...ing car!!! And he ruined a perfectly beautiful car in the process. Sheesh GM guys there is no accounting for some people's taste.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #9 by xctasy » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:50 pm

Its okay by me. Ford guys are supposed to be purists like GM and Mopar UFOlk. It gets harder to free the D's when you drive AMCs.

The best option is to grab what you have nearby...whatever one of the Big Four Plus Whatever Indigeonous Trucks it is. Unity Motorsport Garage. And prep it and enjoy it.

Down here, my wife and I have had a diet of ToyMoters, Ni$$@ns and Suzy-Uzi..um, Suzukis. Hate em all, I put em all in her name but She Who Must Be Ostricised (sp) just loves them and she thinks Ive had a Ford Frontal Lobotomy not to argue.. Any More.

(Just reverse psychology...when I get the chance, I'll move Ford again, mooh ha hah ha hah haughwar ....).

I do feel that the common 4.46" bore spacing.Dodge D series six truck or 4.48 bore spacing 300 Ford engine with New Process A series 4speed and NP 205 reducer, a sandwhich of TIG welded Chevy LS Xflo Gramps heads hooked into a Chevy truck with an F350 dually chassis would be the ultimate way to incite Lynching from every quarter. I know just where I'd put the Jeep and IH bages.....

Lastly, Every Thing Works Better with Boost, so two Audi 5000 Turbo chargers who equalize the power struggle. Isa aint gonna tell yah what company made VW Audi Porsche Turbo chargers.

Image

Vegetable Rights and Peace everyone....
Last edited by xctasy on Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #10 by sixtseventwo4d » Tue Sep 22, 2020 7:09 pm

Please sir! Stop gazing at your neighbors garage project! Lest you find something more inappropriate while peeking under her rear. Something most every male of high octane blood wishes to use; THE 9'' Ford! So maybe those kisses weren't stolen after all.... but transgressional payback

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #11 by THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:28 pm

bubba22349 wrote:...The mid 1950's were the high point of the Horse Power wars ...



Today, 2020, is the high point of the horsepower wars.
FORD 300 INLINE SIX - THE BEST KEPT SECRET IN DRAG RACING

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #12 by xctasy » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:44 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:...The mid 1950's were the high point of the Horse Power wars ...



Today, 2020, is the high point of the horsepower wars.



Yup. Yeet!

In terms of just non turbo gasoline small block Trucks Gross horsepower on a dyno, Fords Brian Wolfe has logged the 445 as 508 hp,

Stripped the way racers have them, with tubing headers, that'll be 575 hp Gross at 5500 rpm. And we haven't even talked Hellcats and that Supercharged Mopar and Shelby stuff yet.

Back in the day, as late as 1971, the legendary 426 Street Hemi typically made 425 HP Gross factory, but well over 500 hp plus with just tubing headers on a an engine dyno. The Elephant has been Eclipsed!

Image
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #13 by bubba22349 » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:56 pm

Well yes :rolflmao: but Today's Horse Power Wars and Tech have no relationship to what was going on in the mid to late 1950's or to "sdiesels" orginal question. :shock: After all that period was over 60 years ago! :nod:
Even a bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

Current project is a 1988 John Deere 420 Garden Tractor I need a few small parts to get it fixed, plus some cosmetic items, maybe a few attachments, if you happen to have or know of JD 420 parts would welcome the help!

My Ex-Inline 6 Fleet 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #14 by xctasy » Wed Sep 23, 2020 12:36 am

bubba22349 wrote:Well yes :rolflmao: but Today's Horse Power Wars and Tech have no relationship to what was going on in the mid to late 1950's or to "sdiesels" orginal question. :shock: After all that period was over 60 years ago! :nod:


i grew up with the dregs of the result of the 1958 power race. In one year from 1961 to 1962, the power of a family six Doubled! The 145 hp 225 Plymouth Valiant and the Olds 88 based Vauxhall Velox were our family hacks.

Only... the J2's were pushing 310 hp GROSS 371 V8


Image

verses 77.9 hp gross 138 in line six....


Image

Our powerboard used Ford Freighters with MEL or FT engines, but in the F800'S. The big 534 266 hp engine SuperDuty beats everything.
Last edited by xctasy on Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #15 by sdiesel » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:10 am

Horsepower...
My own comments on the subject deserve only the briefest considerations, as I'm far from expert.
Even so, there is the sense, the impression that , the game-over event was/is the introduction of the mopar 426.

It is some kind of high water mark, it's like mopar brought a brown bear to a dog fight, it's like the Balrog of of mythical mordor.
This beastly thing that had no contender, offered no compromise, and won everything. Is still winning everything, within its contextual design parameters
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #16 by wallen7 » Wed Sep 23, 2020 10:31 am

Oh yeah I remember the 534 it would beat a path straight to the gas station for oh about 100 gallons.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #17 by CNC-Dude » Wed Sep 30, 2020 7:23 pm

Firepower354 wrote:The Chevy head isn't as awful as first glance suggests, and plenty of power potential.
https://www.12bolt.com/65279inline-cyli ... 65279.html


By that same token, it also is not as good as many may think either. The Chevy siamese head can be made to perform quite well, but with limitations that an individual runner head does not experience. One characteristic that the siamese head cannot overcome is its problematic fuel robbing traits between the cylinders that share the same intake ports. As the performance levels go up, and camshaft overlap increases, this problem compounds more and more. You finally reach that wall where engine damage from lean pistons occurs and can't be stopped. So you reach a plateau where you make as much power as you can without the engine self destructing itself. Our many time NHRA Modified Production and Comp Eliminator engines were just above 600 HP, and pretty much as far as you can go naturally aspirated with the siamese port problems. That sounds awesome, until you realize the expense to create an engine of that power level. For forced induction, that HP level is a lot lower. Simply because pressurized air is harder to change directions inside the port and makes the fuel sharing issues worse. So for those that will ever realistically build a naturally aspirated high HP Ford 6 cylinder, 400 to 450 HP may be the upper limit financially to see anyone sink money into. And for that level, the same can be said for the Chevy 6 cylinder. But for forced induction, I think the Ford cylinder head by its mere design of being individual runner will out shine and exceed what the Chevy 6 will do or has already done.
Image

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #18 by xctasy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 8:38 pm

THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:...The mid 1950's were the high point of the Horse Power wars ...



Today, 2020, is the high point of the horsepower wars.



Thank G"d its 50 years on from 1966.

Back in 1966 to 1968, no one was interested in the 440 hp plus Super Performance Mustangs like the Paxton Supercharged GT350 or the worked Shelby 427.


Look at the performance spikes, we are on a golden age of the seventh wave of really hard out performance Mustangs.

Image

In order to drink the beer, you don't put it in 8 ounce paper cups like they did in 1965 and 1982.


The S550 is a shatter proof Kevlar and pewter mug that you can practically drop and still drink the contents. And the contents is triple strength unless stated otherwise...

Shelby had a heck of a job making proper 427 upgraded cars sell in 1968...there just wasn't a market. He had tested IRS, Fuel injection, rear discs, four wheel drive, they were all potential options, but the market wasn't focused on performance, even after Ford won Le Mans. To grow it, they had to make Italian Supercars. Total Performance died with the Speed Kills ads of 1971. Right in the middle of 55 mph America, it rose again with Ford Motorsport.

Performance sales have been cultivated by Ford since 1982 to be high end options, just like it was in 1965. But now, the whole car has to hack 170 mph performance and still crash into a 200 ton block at 50 mph, and look after pedestrians as well. That's why the latest Stang looks the way it does.


Now there is a later day Total Performance Focus. Its very important that if Mopar sells 700 hp, and Chev sells 850 hp, so can Ford. The cost of making a car safe to that level is high, but its payed for by keen buyers who want that level of expertise.


The issue with the boredom of 600 hp options is that ever since 1980, emissions and crash legal is the only game in town. With the cost of just emissions certification being 100 thousand dollars just to do a back to back Federal Test Procedure validation on a part that can be proven not to trigger OBD/DTC codes or screw out before 50000 miles...the trigger cost is too great, and so we've been moving to option box 600 hp to 850 hp cars for a long time. Stability controls and the electronic throttle have fairly well limited what the average Joe can do. If you wanna play, you really gotta pay at the dealer level.


The over the counter bolt on a 4-bbl creativity of the OHV 5.0 era is gone now, and will never return.

I saw this coming in 1986 when I thought just bolting on a turbo or doing a blueprint and under the radar cam and induction mods was gonna be the way for the next 20 years.

Well, we were wrong. CAFE, CARB, the EPA, and EO's have meant the cookie cutter has been out shaping your individuality.

For me, a Hot Rod is a pre 1948 car. A Street Machine a pre 1996 car. Post 1996 cars, you can turbo them, and get them to haul butt, and the Honda era has been tick tack toed by Ford with the Mustang. And that is how it is.

As for the design process, I'd never have done what Ford did.

For me, a Mustang should always be a common mass produced weapon based on a volume sedan, not a specialty car with no association form another Ford product. Back in the day, an Aston Martin was always an aristocratic grunt house that you could take out on a Saturday night, drag race, and then snap something expensive like a Salisbury differential or half shaft, or bend a door at a drive in, or ruin the alloy panels when your little cousin sat on the hood, and the poor people would just kinda laugh at the rich mans play thing.


When I was 12, I'd see a 1982 351 Fairmont, and badger the owner for 15 minutes, and go home wiping the drool from my mouth just thinking about a factor 200 hp, 16 second muscle car for 30 grand.

Now, the Mustang is a factory hot rod with safeguards that is just like the K code 271 base was in 1965 to a 105 hp 170 cube base-model Mustang. By the time a Cobra cam and 4-bbl Holley and Paxton Supercharger was put on it, your base car had gone up in price 4 times from the little league clunker. Back then, you could get as much as 4-1/2 times as much hp as the stock 170 or 200 six. Now, its just twice the amount.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #19 by bubba22349 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:24 pm

xctasy wrote:
THE FRENCHTOWN FLYER wrote:
bubba22349 wrote:...The mid 1950's were the high point of the Horse Power wars ...



Today, 2020, is the high point of the horsepower wars.



Thank G"d its 50 years on from 1966.

Back in 1966 to 1968, no one was interested in the 440 hp plus Super Performance Mustangs like the Paxton Supercharged GT350 or the worked Shelby 427.


Look at the performance spikes, we are on a golden age of the seventh wave of really hard out performance Mustangs.

Image

In order to drink the beer, you don't put it in 8 ounce paper cups like they did in 1965 and 1982.


The S550 is a shatter proof Kevlar and pewter mug that you can practically drop and still drink the contents. And the contents is triple strength unless stated otherwise...

Shelby had a heck of a job making proper 427 upgraded cars sell in 1968...there just wasn't a market. He had tested IRS, Fuel injection, rear discs, four wheel drive, they were all potential options, but the market wasn't focused on performance, even after Ford won Le Mans. To grow it, they had to make Italian Supercars. Total Performance died with the Speed Kills ads of 1971. Right in the middle of 55 mph America, it rose again with Ford Motorsport.

Performance sales have been cultivated by Ford since 1982 to be high end options, just like it was in 1965. But now, the whole car has to hack 170 mph performance and still crash into a 200 ton block at 50 mph, and look after pedestrians as well. That's why the latest Stang looks the way it does.


Now there is a later day Total Performance Focus. Its very important that if Mopar sells 700 hp, and Chev sells 850 hp, so can Ford. The cost of making a car safe to that level is high, but its payed for by keen buyers who want that level of expertise.


The issue with the boredom of 600 hp options is that ever since 1980, emissions and crash legal is the only game in town. With the cost of just emissions certification being 100 thousand dollars just to do a back to back Federal Test Procedure validation on a part that can be proven not to trigger OBD/DTC codes or screw out before 50000 miles...the trigger cost is too great, and so we've been moving to option box 600 hp to 850 hp cars for a long time. Stability controls and the electronic throttle have fairly well limited what the average Joe can do. If you wanna play, you really gotta pay at the dealer level.


The over the counter bolt on a 4-bbl creativity of the OHV 5.0 era is gone now, and will never return.

I saw this coming in 1986 when I thought just bolting on a turbo or doing a blueprint and under the radar cam and induction mods was gonna be the way for the next 20 years.

Well, we were wrong. CAFE, CARB, the EPA, and EO's have meant the cookie cutter has been out shaping your individuality.

For me, a Hot Rod is a pre 1948 car. A Street Machine a pre 1996 car. Post 1996 cars, you can turbo them, and get them to haul butt, and the Honda era has been tick tack toed by Ford with the Mustang. And that is how it is.

As for the design process, I'd never have done what Ford did.

For me, a Mustang should always be a common mass produced weapon based on a volume sedan, not a specialty car with no association form another Ford product. Back in the day, an Aston Martin was always an aristocratic grunt house that you could take out on a Saturday night, drag race, and then snap something expensive like a Salisbury differential or half shaft, or bend a door at a drive in, or ruin the alloy panels when your little cousin sat on the hood, and the poor people would just kinda laugh at the rich mans play thing.


When I was 12, I'd see a 1982 351 Fairmont, and badger the owner for 15 minutes, and go home wiping the drool from my mouth just thinking about a factor 200 hp, 16 second muscle car for 30 grand.

Now, the Mustang is a factory hot rod with safeguards that is just like the K code 271 base was in 1965 to a 105 hp 170 cube base-model Mustang. By the time a Cobra cam and 4-bbl Holley and Paxton Supercharger was put on it, your base car had gone up in price 4 times from the little league clunker. Back then, you could get as much as 4-1/2 times as much hp as the stock 170 or 200 six. Now, its just twice the amount.


:rolflmao: Really, now where’re going to be comparing them 15 years later when Hi Performance autos were being attacked here by the insurance industry with sky high rates making it that much harder for most people to be able to afford them. :bang: And also the start of de-tuning the engines due to federal emissions mandates. Talk about taking a part of my quote out of context :shock: . I can’t say it any better then this! “Clearly what we have here is a failure to communicate” From the movie :cool: Hand Luke. Okay now Tag Your It! :thumbup: :nod: Edited
Even a bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

Current project is a 1988 John Deere 420 Garden Tractor I need a few small parts to get it fixed, plus some cosmetic items, maybe a few attachments, if you happen to have or know of JD 420 parts would welcome the help!

My Ex-Inline 6 Fleet 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #20 by sdiesel » Wed Sep 30, 2020 10:55 pm

And all this is such a dam waste of human energy, when we can only drive 65, except Nevada and Montana, where inappropriate speed clocks in the triple digits, and the needle is at the 5 o'clock position
And where a 25k dollar e car will run a 700 horse gas model to death, in any venue .
In fewer than ten years, there will be nothing left but nostalgia, memory and a certain abashed pride in what used to be....back in my time"
A o smarting reminder is what the " fart can ricer" did to American muscle. Embarrassing, and the kids who done it was just a pup....
2JZGTE......
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #21 by sdiesel » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:05 pm

The lovely aspect to this board is that the HP wars are real, that all manner of modification is done in a truly innovative manner wherein the nature of the modifier as well as his logic is on display through his efforts.
It truly don't amount to a hill of beans, but is authentic fun with a capital.
Every bolt turned on a modified six is a passionate dedication to making of a plow horse into a legend.


In my earlier post, I did question the Siamese ports as lacking potential, and likely the reason the 292 is not as often modified with turbo, now we know why and I thank you for this.
The 302 on the other hand is modified , perhaps even to an extent our 300 commonly are not. Or were not until recently.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #22 by pmuller9 » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:06 pm

sdiesel wrote:And all this is such a dam waste of human energy, when we can only drive 65, except Nevada and Montana, where inappropriate speed clocks in the triple digits, and the needle is at the 5 o'clock position

Except at many Drag strips across the country that open the track on Friday nights just for the street car enthusiast.
Grudge racing kept a lot of us busy.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #23 by xctasy » Wed Sep 30, 2020 11:28 pm

True. Period.

Your past defines the future in GM and Ford sixes, because you are saddled with its DNA. Once its cast with 9 port Siamese ports or 12 ports, you then have to use different ways of getting them to haul.


Ford and GM were all way behind Mopar's Hemi, 303-313-318 Polyhead and Wedge engines, so this discussion is a little bit like discussing which sheep is Dodgey.

I like to lay it out in context because when released, the 240 and 300 were 95 and 114 hp net engines (145 or 170 hp gross), the Chevy and GMC 250's and 292's, even less.

However, the 1955 to 1958 280 to 312 hp engines were just the first baby steps, Power Plip 1.

In my opinion, the 292 is effectively a child of 1953's Blue Flame in ports and Architecture, with nothing physically different except thin wall castings and cost reduction to make it.

The Stirret 1965 240 and 300 is essentially a developed Hudson flat head Hornet conversion engine, with a very good 12 port head of modern wedge design, with none of the old i6 223-262 Y block derived material in block or heads transferred. Despite the Big Six head designer being ex Hudson, it was engineered fresh at Ford, during the Second Power plip, the 1962-1966 GTO and Tri Power Ford plip that was the result of the Big Threes decision to get around, or forget about the AMA Factory Racing ban, and go NASCAR and Lemans hunting.

So everything in the 300's breading is years ahead of GM's engineering. None of that stunning John Z Deloren OHC Pontiac 230/250 head conversion excellence was used in the 250 and 292 updates, it was just 9 port head dead air. IMHO, Ford's basics are better.

The other six color plips probably make the current Screw Blower GT500 and Hellcat fueled power race the 7th plip. Just to index everything.

The Chevy stuff is still heck for strong, but the Big Six has way more potential. The inherent goodness of the Big Six 12 prt is mared by Access other Ford Total Performace Excess. The fact that heads from the Second Performance plip are added to the Big Six doesnt mean the 12 port 300 is any worse than the 292 HEAD.

Ist Gen and Forth Gen Heads are the go to performance parts (Fords Boss 302/351C's and the NASCAR Yates A3/B3/D3/C3 or Chevy LS heads )

Anyway, there is a prescription for universal horsepower using what you find. For Chevy engines, they have big ports. For Ford sixes, they have better shape. Hand crafting either to get target results just needs a different technique.
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XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #24 by drag-200stang » Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:10 am

Siamese intake ports means that there is going to be siamese or at least two exhaust ports next to each other...The double heat there can be a problem with extra turbo heat...The 200 has siamese exhaust ports at 3 and 4 , you can see the proof on the head gasket...and I have to believe that double heat there would cause tuning issues.
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #25 by 180Roman » Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:22 pm

Has anyone here compared a 300HD exhaust, see this, manifold to the regular light truck exhaust manifolds with regards to flow? I am not concerned with the outlet, but rather the flow capacity within the log. I want to weld a turbo flange in place of the original outlet. Have not yet been able to find a 300HD to make a comparison myself, so any input would be appreciated.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #26 by bubba22349 » Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:43 pm

Yes these HD Exhaust manifolds flow much better than the stock pickup log exhaust. The first Turbo kits that Ak Miller made for the 240 / 300's Ford Six'es back in the day used that HD Exhaust manifold. :thumbup: :nod:

Ak moded the exhaust manifolds by cutting off the 2 1 / 2 inch flange and welded a plate to direct mount the Turbo mounting it in a lower position, see below links for pictures of an Ak Miller Turbo Kit. They were also a cool looking system I do like the way Ak's system mounted the Turbo lower. Last picture shows Curts56 new draw through system looks like a very good design and it also fits into his 1956 F100 chassis better. :nod:

Curts56 Below Second Post Shows the Original Ak Miller Turbo System

Aka Miller Modds made to the 300 Heavy Duty Exhaust Manifold
http://www.ckdesign-inc.com/images/Turbo/Manifold3.JPG

Plans to Alter the Ak Miller Turbo System
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=78602

Curts56 New Blow Through Turbo System
viewtopic.php?f=2&t=79740&start=50#p623764
Even a bad day Drag Racing is still better than a good day at work!

Current project is a 1988 John Deere 420 Garden Tractor I need a few small parts to get it fixed, plus some cosmetic items, maybe a few attachments, if you happen to have or know of JD 420 parts would welcome the help!

My Ex-Inline 6 Fleet 1954 Customline 223 3 speed with O/D, 1963 Fairlane project drag car with BB6, 1977 Maverick 250 with C4, 1994 F-150 a 300 with 5 speed.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #27 by sdiesel » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:56 am

On the HD, there is sound argument for flow characteristics that will sway in either direction.. the EFI and true header will flow substantially better at higher rpms, over 4500, with better scavenging.
Or so it's said.
Sick six, in his build made a convincing argument against this viewpoint, and little can be argued against his success with that project.
It's only my view but it's valid, that the HD. Is perfectly adequate for street driven vehicles wherein sustained high rpm is impractical, or impossible.
I also claim that the HD makes twin scroll impossible.
Nonetheless it flows very nicely, and leaves an uncluttered engine bay, a simple and clean install. And it
Looks like a baby Cummins, which is coolest of all!!!
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #28 by sdiesel » Sat Oct 03, 2020 2:58 am

[quote="drag-200stang"]Siamese intake ports means that there is going to be siamese or at least two exhaust ports next to each other...The double heat there can be a problem with extra turbo heat...The 200 has siamese exhaust ports at 3 and 4 , you can see the proof on the head gasket...and I have to believe that double heat there would cause tuning issues.[/quote

I have to believe you are right, which may answer my first question : why are there not numerous turbos hanging off numerous 292 chevs?
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #29 by xctasy » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:26 am

sdiesel wrote:
drag-200stang wrote:Siamese intake ports means that there is going to be siamese or at least two exhaust ports next to each other...The double heat there can be a problem with extra turbo heat...The 200 has siamese exhaust ports at 3 and 4 , you can see the proof on the head gasket...and I have to believe that double heat there would cause tuning issues.


Because the Low Hanging fruit is the SBC.


As a multiple postive managemet and engineering.move, Pontiac in 1979 went saimesed Ports on its lightweight 301 because a shallow deck Big Block that weighes and consumes as little metal as the Small Block Chev is a perfect carbed or 76-79 Cadillac/Olds 350 Port EFi candidate.

In a turbo installation, draw through Qjet, a saimesed port has no flow bias to any cylinder. As a Port EFi engine with a 2 or 4 bbl intake and a turbo above the throttle body or a throttle body above the turbo, it would kick.serious hiney.

Pontiac was rewarded by the withdrawl of the 301 Turbo for 1982.
Image
XEC Ltd ICBE's Inter Continental Ballistic Engines-
FAZER 6Bi (M112 & EEC5) or FAZER 6Ti (GT3582 & EEC5) 425 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
FAZER 6V0 3x2-BBL Holley 188 HP 3.3L/200 I-6 or 235 HP 4.1L/250 I-6
X-Flow Engine Components Ltd http://www.xecltd.info/?rd=10

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #30 by pmuller9 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:47 am

sdiesel wrote:On the HD, there is sound argument for flow characteristics that will sway in either direction.. the EFI and true header will flow substantially better at higher rpms, over 4500, with better scavenging.
Or so it's said.
Sick six, in his build made a convincing argument against this viewpoint, and little can be argued against his success with that project.

Quite the contrary. The build actually confirmed the short comings of the log exhaust manifold.

The engine continued to hit a wall around 5200 rpm despite cam changes with significant increases in durations and lift.
Considering 5200 rpm with 20 psi of boost and considerable amounts of water/methanol injection the engine was down on power compared to what it could have been.
The Lunati 277 cam that was used last will normally make peak power around 5500 rpm and pull to 6000 rpm, not fall on it's face at 5200.

We had some conversation about switching to the EFI exhaust but it didn't happen. It would have been a great comparison.
It would also have been easy to use a full tube header with the rear mount turbo.

As you said the HD manifold lends itself ok for low to midrange truck power and makes installation easy. No argument there.

If you are looking to make big horsepower look elsewhere.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #31 by sdiesel » Mon Oct 05, 2020 11:41 pm

Were I to do a remote mount, I would use the header, and mount turbo just under/behind the cab . As close to the header as I could and I would twin scroll,.but maybe twin scrollable not be effective with the header if the firing order and header collectors did not synch??. Anyway that is the only wayI would consider doing it.
Pretty cool in that the headers would hold zero weight, as the turbo being self mounted would help support the header pipes, and thus can be reasonably leaK free.
Easy to wrap six headers .
I would employ a Japanese cab-over intake filter with snorkel, it would be a very clean install
Last edited by sdiesel on Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #32 by pmuller9 » Tue Oct 06, 2020 12:07 am

The pulses alternate evenly between the two collectors making it ideal for a twin scroll turbine housing.

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Re: So, to make my Ford run, I need Chevy parts....so

Post #33 by sdiesel » Wed Oct 07, 2020 12:33 am

Then that's the only way, half of the work -the hard half is already done for me, just hanging parts now.
a long love affair with the 300 six.
my lastest and final fling is a fresh 300 in an 88 ford f350 dually 4X flatbed

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