Turbo 240 or 300

Moderator: Mod Squad

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #301 by brandoncw » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:58 am

Can anyone sum up the build, theres so much information my heads gonna explode :lol:
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

drag-200stang
Registered User
Posts: 923
Joined: Sun Oct 19, 2003 6:10 pm
Location: Michigan

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #302 by drag-200stang » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:58 am

brandoncw wrote:Can anyone sum up the build, theres so much information my heads gonna explode :lol:

I can...How to build... '' One Bad Van'' ... :nod:
66 Mustang Coupe
200 turbo w/lenco 4-spd
stock adj. rockers, stock timing set, ARP studs
best 1/4 mile ET 9.85/best mph 139 on 8 lbs progressing to 15 lbs boost
Went 9's when 10's was fast.

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #303 by brandoncw » Tue Mar 13, 2018 12:12 pm

drag-200stang wrote:I can...How to build... '' One Bad Van'' ... :nod:

Yeah i didnt fugure it was your ordinary soccer moms minivan :rolflmao:
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #304 by pmuller9 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:44 pm

brandoncw wrote:Can anyone sum up the build, theres so much information my heads gonna explode :lol:

The goal is to have full boost from 1500 rpm with a 3500 rpm limit and HUGE torque.
This is exactly opposite of most turbocharger applications where the main concern is upper rpm horsepower.

The group doing the higher rpm turbo power builds can get away with using a larger turbo than what is needed because they rarely run the engines rpm low enough under power to push the turbo near the surge limit.
It works out ok with the upper power band running near the center efficiency island on the compressor map instead of the right hand side.
We did that when running a class that gave us a 200lb weight break with a smaller engine and a 88mm turbo size limit.

In this case we are looking at doing everything possible to get full boost by 1500 rpm so the turbo is sized smaller than usual so it can run at very low rpm without surge.
So now instead of limiting the low rpm to keep the turbo out of the surge zone we have to limit the upper rpm to keep the turbo from running into the choke zone. Just the opposite from the above situation.

That is what all those pages of planning was about.
The compression ratio, cam selection and header design is all part of that same equation.
The component selection and design needed to be carefully considered for the success of the project.

The other part of this project was how to make the turbocharger system and EFI intake system fit into the engine box of an early Ford Van

Did I miss anything?

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #305 by Wesman07 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:12 pm

I think you nailed it. I can’t want to see a video of this running and curious about what it’s like to drive. I bet the hardest part would be keeping the drool from going in your ears!

If full boost is at 1500 rpm, will it be like a light switch from 1,000-1,500? Or will that ball bearing turbo have some spool at idle?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #306 by pmuller9 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 5:44 pm

Wesman07 wrote:If full boost is at 1500 rpm, will it be like a light switch from 1,000-1,500? Or will that ball bearing turbo have some spool at idle?

Ball bearing turbos spin if you blow on them and spin when you hit the starter so they track the exhaust pressure pretty closely.
So it depends on how fast the exhuast pressure rises.
In other words I don't know for sure and am waiting just like everyone else to see the results then we can fine tune from there.

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #307 by brandoncw » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:11 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
brandoncw wrote:Can anyone sum up the build, theres so much information my heads gonna explode :lol:

The goal is to have full boost from 1500 rpm with a 3500 rpm limit and HUGE torque.
This is exactly opposite of most turbocharger applications where the main concern is upper rpm horsepower.

The group doing the higher rpm turbo power builds can get away with using a larger turbo than what is needed because they rarely run the engines rpm low enough under power to push the turbo near the surge limit.
It works out ok with the upper power band running near the center efficiency island on the compressor map instead of the right hand side.
We did that when running a class that gave us a 200lb weight break with a smaller engine and a 88mm turbo size limit.

In this case we are looking at doing everything possible to get full boost by 1500 rpm so the turbo is sized smaller than usual so it can run at very low rpm without surge.
So now instead of limiting the low rpm to keep the turbo out of the surge zone we have to limit the upper rpm to keep the turbo from running into the choke zone. Just the opposite from the above situation.

That is what all those pages of planning was about.
The compression ratio, cam selection and header design is all part of that same equation.
The component selection and design needed to be carefully considered for the success of the project.

The other part of this project was how to make the turbocharger system and EFI intake system fit into the engine box of an early Ford Van

Did I miss anything?

Did he use the stock crank or forged? And if he used stock, did it get any custom grinds?
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

pmuller9
Registered User
Posts: 2172
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:33 am
Location: Columbus, Indiana

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #308 by pmuller9 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 6:46 pm

Stock iron crank with the rod journals turned down to 2.100 to fit the SBC rod bearings.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #309 by Ramian17 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 7:04 pm

nice yeah he pretty much nailed. The old girl did get a forged crank though. Ordered more stainless to finish the header and am working
On the floors and the intercooler today. Thanks for all the interest guys this forum is awesome!!!!

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #310 by brandoncw » Tue Mar 13, 2018 8:16 pm

Ramian17 wrote:nice yeah he pretty much nailed. The old girl did get a forged crank though. Ordered more stainless to finish the header and am working
On the floors and the intercooler today. Thanks for all the interest guys this forum is awesome!!!!

Are you gonna put her on a dyno for us??
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #311 by Ramian17 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:48 pm

Wasn't planning on it. I could put the van herself on a Dyno if that would make ya happy? As is it's looking like I have to take the motor back out to take the oil pan off. So I can drill and fab up an oil return. Fun fun fun. So I didn't really want to take it out a third time to Dyno it lol

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #312 by brandoncw » Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:55 pm

Ramian17 wrote:Wasn't planning on it. I could put the van herself on a Dyno if that would make ya happy? As is it's looking like I have to take the motor back out to take the oil pan off. So I can drill and fab up an oil return. Fun fun fun. So I didn't really want to take it out a third time to Dyno it lol

I didnt even think of just the engine on a dyno lol, and i feel ya, getting an engine out of a van isnt the most fun thing in the world :lol: id be pleased with a dyno of the whole van, personally i feel as if you know more about your set up that way rather than just putting the engine on the dyno. You are then testing how the trans, the axles, tires, etc. Affect your end result.
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #313 by Ramian17 » Tue Mar 13, 2018 10:55 pm

Awesome yeah I probably will take get to the dunno then. Here is the start of slicing up my brand new intercoolers. So we can make them one.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ul9hknz5kbpkg ... 0.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6oqjw891gmb2i ... 6.jpg?dl=0

brandoncw
Registered User
Posts: 255
Joined: Sat May 06, 2017 10:51 pm
Location: Fulton, Missouri

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #314 by brandoncw » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:26 am

Ramian17 wrote:Awesome yeah I probably will take get to the dunno then. Here is the start of slicing up my brand new intercoolers. So we can make them one.

Are you doing this because you need more cooling for your slower rpm and speeds, yet high boost? And are you putting an electric fan on the front to help push air in?
Skilled labor isn't cheap, Cheap labor isn't skilled.

n8in8or
Registered User
Posts: 57
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 6:40 pm

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #315 by n8in8or » Wed Mar 14, 2018 11:37 am

Ramian17 wrote:Awesome yeah I probably will take get to the dunno then. Here is the start of slicing up my brand new intercoolers. So we can make them one.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/ul9hknz5kbpkg ... 0.jpg?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6oqjw891gmb2i ... 6.jpg?dl=0

It would be cool to have pressure sensors pre-intercooler, post-intercooler and also in the junction you are creating. This is a clever idea and I would be interested to see how much pressure drop a configuration like this creates.
1994 F150 4x4, 4.9 E4OD. EFI turbo build in progress....

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #316 by Ramian17 » Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:20 pm

I'm mainly doing it because I needed the inlet and outlet on the same side, and this gives me the biggest one possible with that set up. I did a lot of research and some people said that the inlet and the outlet on the same side is actually better? Lots of opinions and studies out there. This one I am building will be 16 inchs tall and 24 inches long just in the core. I would love to have all those pressure sensor. But right now I'm focusing mainly on just getting her moving lol.

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #317 by Wesman07 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 6:10 pm

Any up dates?? I’m really want to see this thing run!
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #318 by Wesman07 » Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:10 pm

Do you have room for long intake runners? I see big low end gains when going from a 6" runner to a 22"

Image
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #319 by Ramian17 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:08 am

Working on the floors everyday. Lots of upside-down grinding, welding, and sanding. Tons oh fun. Gotta find and make it your Zen place. Lost my helper buddy so I'm a one man show right now. Once the floors are sealed, sanded, and masked they will be sprayed with some undercoating. Then I can install the radiator and intercooler. Also got the rest of the two inch stainless and the stainless two inch v bands, so i will be finishing the header soon. Then it will be wiring, electronics, and all the finishing touches. Sorry guys still a ways out. Trust me it's killing me and I work on her everyday!!! This old girl was my daily driver and will be once she is alive again.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #320 by Ramian17 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 2:12 am

By intake runners do you mean the six short tubes after the larger 2.5 inch tube?
download/file.php?id=1649&mode=view

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #321 by Wesman07 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 5:37 am

Ramian17 wrote:By intake runners do you mean the six short tubes after the larger 2.5 inch tube?
download/file.php?id=1649&mode=view


Yes exactly.

I plugged all your specs into my engine simulator program (engine analyzer), because I would like to build a very similar motor. To my surprise the intake runner length had a much bigger effect than I had imagined. It could be inflated though. I think the projections are more accurate for a journal bearing turbo.

The screen shot I took was a 6” runner compared to a 22” ( roughly the efi manifold). I personally like the looks of the short log style intake though.

I know you probably don’t have room, but I figured I should through it out there while you are at this stage.

Keep up the good work. Big projects are hard to stay motivated, but there is a light at the end of the tunnel... or more Zen... like 500ft/lbs of Zen!!
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #322 by Ramian17 » Fri Mar 23, 2018 3:59 pm

Unfortunately I don't think I do. Maybe one day I'll create some crazy intake that looks like the header, but right now I just want the old girl to move again!!!

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #323 by Wesman07 » Tue Apr 24, 2018 10:09 am

Any updates?
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #324 by Ramian17 » Thu May 03, 2018 11:02 pm

Dangit guys I'm super sorry. I have officially gone back to my real job. Which means pretty much no time for my project. I'm hoping to get sometime in on it sometime around June or July. I'm actually a good 1000 miles from my baby. Pretty lame I know. It's looking like it is officially going to bleed over into a two year project.... Super bummer. But I promise I haven't given up we will see this thing alive some day!!!!

Wesman07
Registered User
Posts: 330
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 10:00 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #325 by Wesman07 » Fri May 04, 2018 11:22 am

Life gets in the way sometimes. Everyone can understand that.

Glad to hear you didn’t loose interest, or get so frustrated you had to walk away from it.

Just promise us some videos!
In-lines we trust

86 f150 300 efi with advanced stock cam. Np435, Dana 60/ 10.25, 35" BFG's, four link front suspension with 12" travel fox coil overs, custom deaver leaf pack in the rear.

Ramian17
Registered User
Posts: 196
Joined: Tue Dec 13, 2016 2:39 am

Re: Turbo 240 or 300

Post #326 by Ramian17 » Fri May 04, 2018 8:11 pm

That I can promise for sure!!!! One day she'll be doing four wheeled burn outs with a giant trailer in tow jahahah!!!!

Return to “Turbo, Supercharger, and Nitrous”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests