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Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

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morepower
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Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #1 by morepower » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:36 pm

Anyone messed around with supercharging a 200 six? I'm thinking one of the Eaton units but that's the easy part. Brackets, manifolding, injection, pulleys?

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stevexysupersix
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #2 by stevexysupersix » Mon Nov 30, 2009 8:58 pm

Do a seach on M 90 supercharged 250, author balldrick.

Some awesome fabrication there!!! 8)
Cheers, Steve
1971 XY Falcon 250 2V Image

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #3 by Asa » Mon Nov 30, 2009 10:00 pm

Unfortunately there isn't really any sort of bolt on supercharger for our sixes, it is a completely custom project. Happily it means you can put all your own touches on the build.
Good luck!
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #4 by PhilOO » Sun Dec 20, 2009 2:12 am

Hi Guys

Sorry to chime in a little late....but there is a bolt on supercharger for the ford 6

Image
Image
Image


This is a Paxton SN60 centrifugal blower (NOS) circa 1960 geared by Gates belt & pulleys designed by yours truly & CNCed his mates at work (thanks guys)
The cast mounting bracket has "Paxton Falcon" cast into it and a part number. It came with a massive Vee belt & pulleys but I got rid of them because I wanted the agressive look of the toothed belt.
cheers
Phil

\\\\\\ FALCON IS THE ANSWER \\\\\\

64 Australian built Ford XM Falcon Futura 2 door, 221 i6, Paxton SN60 Blower thru 350 Holley, 1800 stall, C4, 8"LSD

61 Australian built Chrysler S series Valiant, 225 slant 6, salt racer project car.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #5 by morepower » Sun Dec 20, 2009 10:27 am

Very cool and it seems the install is pretty straightforward. Are you using a special pressurized carb? Did Paxton make a complete kit for the Ford six back then?

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #6 by StrangeRanger » Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:14 am

Is not the Aussie 200 a different, much taller block from the US 200? Even if one could find one, that might render the Paxton kit unusable on our engines.
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #7 by wallaka » Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:56 pm

The Paxton kit was written up in Hot Rod Magazine in the 60's. It was produced for our engines. MustangGeezer had a copy of the article on his webpage, if I remember correctly.
Down to 29 cylinders!
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #8 by Ronbo » Mon Dec 21, 2009 5:23 am

Someone on the forum had one not too long ago? I remember the pictures and he was asking what it might be worth. Hmmmm :hmmm:

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #9 by PhilOO » Mon Dec 21, 2009 7:21 am

morepower wrote:Very cool and it seems the install is pretty straightforward. Are you using a special pressurized carb? Did Paxton make a complete kit for the Ford six back then?


Hi Morepower

The install to the engine would be pretty straight forward....if I used the complete kit (which I couldn't get) and installed to a stock engine as intended by Paxton. (I have full instructions, hand drawn & typed on type writer!) It gives details for recurving your distributor (done in those days with a Sun distributor machine I guess). It has curves for manual or auto. Also shows you how to boost reference the stock fuel pump (very important) and a lot on miscellaneous plumbing.

Other easy mods include details on how to move the radiator outside the apron as the pulleys encroach on stock radiator space (I think I read that right, they are at my mates place at the moment)

It had a dual vee solid pulley included (one little vee for stock accessories and one large vee for blower) This pulley replaced the harmonic balancer, so there is no damping and also I reckon this would mess with the balancing of crank assembly. That's another reason I machined my own pulleys. My crank pulley is spigoted into a harmonic balancer (by spigoted I mean I machined the balancer slight cast recess bore on centre hub not the outer rim bit, which is the damped bit. I machined to true it up to the keyed bore then faced square. The pulley is located in this with say 1/2 a thou clearance. It is driven by the 3 tapped holes normally used to pull the balancer off the crank. I installed some grade 12.9 soc head cap screws there as they are heaps strong. This way the toothed pulley id driven of the centre boss of the balancer, the outer bit is free to damp as usual. The whole crank assy was then dynamically balanced as one lot.

Anyway back to the standard kit (i recall) was meant to take you from 96bhp to something like 150bhp at 10psi. They were sold as 5 psi for road use and 10 psi for competition use. I believe in road use the blower lasted about 100,000 miles before it needed a rebuild. I have geared mine to 10psi. My static CR is 8.5 to 1. The cam is a typical turbo or supercharger grind, fairly mild I recall. My aim was to build lots of torque all through the rev range. Should run out to 5200 or there abouts.

I found my unit on a Studebaker blog (i have other weird interests besides this ford six stuff). Struck up some convo with a retired Dutch guy who lived at South Bend (home of the Studie, where he worked his whole life until they closed.) He had the motherlode of Studie bits. He somehow realised I had a Dutch background (i must talk too much on blogs...cant you tell?) and thats how he struck up the convo talking about the motherland. Anyway after a lot of chatting I learnt how Studie bought out Paxton and Paxton was McCulloch. He told me how the SN60 was Paxtons first bash at it but it was essentially a McCulloch VS57 (VS as in variable speed) but without the VS bit (hence more reliable).

Well if this wasn't interesting enough he told me how Craig Conely at Paradise Wheels is the Paxton man and he reckons he had a aftermarket kit for early Falcon. That's how I got this one. I don't know if he has any more falcon accessories (I think I got the last) but he can certainly rig up an SN60 I beleive as he has all the NOS parts/castings and he has the patterns. (Well he did about a year or so ago.) Nice helpful guy I found.

Now don't confuse any of this with the Paxton SN89. I think Vortech got the Paxton name, the SN89 is much later (but similar size & style to mine I guess) But Vortech didn't want the old product line I beleive, so I think somehow Craig picked it up, but hey ask him not me :-)

The stock kit also had a pressurised housing for the stock carb (no mods to carb I guess other than rejetting) I skipped that step because I have used a brand new 350 Holley. This has been mounted at right angles to normal (I modded by head by welding on a 16mm thick lasercut plate the shape of the Holley base) and then a 40mm milling cutter plunged down thru into cast log to make a nice big oval slot parallel to engine for the Holley butterflies to sit above. A bit of radiusing of some edges to smooth pass into the log sorted this out. It is a mod I picked up on this forum, a few guys here have done a nice job of this and report normal behaviour of Holley on cornering. I like the mod because basically you have one holley barrel heading to 123 and the other to 456. For me it seemed worth the extra effort rather than bolting a 2V to 1V adaptor to the stock log. This mod would not work well with a 2V progressive carb (such as downdraft webber) but the 350 isn't progressive in that both barrels upon up simultaneously.

I originally started out with a brand new Offenhauser tripower for early head (round log not hex log, still in packet) Found 3 early 1V Holleys (1905's??? the ones that came out on first Falcon's with the glass floatbowls, my centre one is off a 223 and the end "secondary" ones are off a 170) I really l the look of these on the tripower. Finding the carbs was not easy until I rang 1800 HOLLEY or 130 HOLLEY or some such number (go figure) and they had them in stock! So as you can gather I am into the old school look. So you can imagine how excited I was when I found an old school blower to suit old school engine.

Now to original question, yes the carb is rebuilt for blow thru. This is well documented on how to make a 4V Holley blow thru. A number of businesses over there do it as their day to day (probably some here also) But as soon as I mentioned Holley 350 I think some of them thought I was a waste of space (some cooky dutch wierdo from down under...well they'd be right) but I figure my money is as good as the next guys. Finally found some guys at Long Island, SD Concepts. Those guys prepped the Holley. They asked heaps of questions about my engine, which in the end I built in consulatation with them (cam/comp/chambers etc.) They took ages to start (they have a lot of jobs in the line...thats usually a good sign) but did the job quickly once started. I am happy with the end result very nice indeed.

It was easier for them to buy a brand new Holley prep and send to oz. Hence the Holley is the current "centre float" design. I beleive this style came out in 1967 (maybe earlier, that's the earliest picture or mention I can find in any books) But I really wanted the older school looking "side float" design which I think came out in 1957. It would fit with the early hop up theme better. But it was just too hard to find a good one in my timeframe & get it to them. Anyway I am trying to only use parts from first Falcon release to say 1967 to keep it "ol'school".

The biggest hassle for me so far has been mounting a much larger radiator outside the apron (rather than Paxtons method of relocating the stock one.) It gets very hot where I live. The original Falcon cooling was marginal as stock for most of Australia. I have a custom made aluminium radiator by Norm at Aussie Dessert Coolers, painted black to hide it a bit. This thing is massive and has messed up all the bonnet latching so I am fabbing custom ones up from modded XW Falcon. We made it with side tanks instead of top & bottom tanks but it still takes up a lot of room. I have modded various latch bits and they will look good but I am on the last 2% of this build and it seems to take forever. I am in about 2 & 1/2 years (this was a bare metal resto.) I have not fired the engine yet as am boost referencing my pump at work and also need to sort out dizzy (will look stock from outside minus vac advance, inside will be optic or inductive chopper) with electronic module hidden. This is the only modern part in car....but it will be concealed....I just can't be bothered with points (that would be too ol'school?)

The car from the outside is completely stock, except for it is slightly lowered and has a twin 2&1/4" exhaust as the only give away...and oh yes maybe some induction noise :-)

I haven't blogged it much as I have been really busy building it....oh yes & earning the money to pay for it. I have had a lot of help, a lot from friends and a lot paid for, but I do that to keep the momentum up. I want to finish it now, enjoy it & get on with the next project.
Last edited by PhilOO on Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
cheers
Phil

\\\\\\ FALCON IS THE ANSWER \\\\\\

64 Australian built Ford XM Falcon Futura 2 door, 221 i6, Paxton SN60 Blower thru 350 Holley, 1800 stall, C4, 8"LSD

61 Australian built Chrysler S series Valiant, 225 slant 6, salt racer project car.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #10 by PhilOO » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:27 am

StrangeRanger wrote:Is not the Aussie 200 a different, much taller block from the US 200? Even if one could find one, that might render the Paxton kit unusable on our engines.


Hi StrangeRanger

Here's my understanding, but please correct me Aussie Falcon Guys...

We got the Falcon in 1960 I think, it had the 144 & 170 exact same car and engine as US car. In Australia we called the first two models XK & XL. These were a bit of a let down here as our roads were apparently so bad. They had a lot of issues with strength of suspension & steering, and even rigidity of the body. It almost sent Ford Australia broke. Then Ford released the XM here (my car.) That was never released I think in US. I think they went to the "bigger" Falcon format. We persisted with the compact one, mid 63 onwards. The XM was much improved. (Ford marketed as Golden Quality) It was a much stronger car and heavier to match. Ford did some insane reliability trial 70,000 miles in 7 days with 5 Falcons. (Might have been in 65 with the XP, which is very similar to XM)

Anyway in the XM we got the 200 "super pursuit" (whoo hoo...my car) the 170 was the "pursuit" and the 144 was just that. I don't recall if the XL had the 200 as an option. My mate's got an XL Futura (fully optioned & I think its only 170.) Whatever, anyway in those years not many had the 200, that was the top shelf spec along with 2 speed Fordmatic (another whoo hoo?) Mines a Futura so its got the lot, including bucket seats and is a 2 door. Not many XM 2 doors were made, more were made in XP.

The original 200 (which I pulled from my car) was still running perfectly. It is matching numbers, so I pulled it to avoid spreading original internals through sump pan after fitting period accessory ie supercharger :-)

My 200 has the same US engine numbers as early US 200's (ie numbers starting with C3DE and C4DE etc) which makes me think the 200's were imported in early model like XM. (I am sure the 144 and 170 were made here in Oz on mass as heaps were sold.) I don't know at what point the 200 became produced here in early Falcon. My original engine looks & measures like a US one I beleive. In later models (XR or XT) Ford Australia dropped the 200 and went to the 221.

I think the 221 is the engine you are talking about. It is the one I picked because it is virtually unbreakable I have been told. It has 7 bearing crank for start whereas my 200 has 4 bearing.

The 221 is 0.6" taller than the early 200.

At some point Ford went back to a 200 (my dad had a XA 200 circa 1973) It is a different engine to early 200. I beleive the bell housing is different, I think it has 3 tapped holes for engine mount not 2, but I reckon the bore & stroke would be as per the early ones. They have completely different engine numbers like 72DA or some such thing (ie different format number to US) I guess this later 200 has got a 7 bearing crank...I would like an oz expert to comment as I never pulled one apart.) I am here to learn and be corrected too.

Anyway, I reckon this Paxton kit would fit 144, 170, 200, 221 & 250 all in pre cross flow and pre 2V (ie old head style with cast on log inlet)

I say this because if you look at the Paxton blower bracket it picks up on a thermostat housing bolt (sounds like a top idea?) another bracket you were meant to weld to your rocker cover (awesome?) and it has a leg on aluminium bracket that rests on the machined bit level with top of block that sticks out side of block at front left side of motor. They also had some diagonal strut I think but I never got that. Other than the strut the rest seems pretty interesting!!

I used a Gr 12.9 SHCS in thermosat housing hole. I machined (spot faced) front face of thermostat housing around hole to make cast surface flat & square to bolt axis. I recall I used 2 tapped holes near front of block on upper left and welded this insitu during dummy run to a turned boss I made that picked up on the pivot shaft which the Paxton tensioner pulley pivots on. Paxton pressed a steel pin through the aluminium bracket. For some reason it sticks out the back side 1 & 1/2". So I tapped the end and made my boss pull up to the shoulder face at back of bracket. I used Gr8.8 screw in tapped hole with turned thick washer to pull the whole thing up rigid. The boss is 1 thou clear on the pin. This one step made what was looking a dodgy setup as rigid as. The thermostat bolt was more a jig to hold in place while fabbing all this stuff. You can maybe just see the silver turned boss in the top pic above, this was before welding and painting of bracket. Finally I added a 5/8" dia strut with threaded ends. You can just see that in top pic too. This picks up on a boss welded to a bracket that picks up on 3 holes at front lower of Paxton bolt PCD (The Paxton has a gazillion holes in its PCD and you can pick up on them easily. A similar Boss was welded to the engine mount so this adds some nice rigid triangulation to the setup.

Also in top pic you can see Mike AZ supplied very nice finned alloy rocker cover. And you can see a matching (machined not cast) disk on top of plenum. The plenum is Paxton supply for 2v 4V carb with 5 & 1/4" diameter top. But it was an ugly casting. I am about to weld a bit of ally mandrel bent tube to this with 45 degree bend. So we took the top out of plenum by boring right thru about 4" and facing into the casting to about dia 5" by say 1/16" deep. The casting is nice & thick. Then we turned up and grooved the "hat" spot faced centre for air cleaner stud of Holley. The underside of hat has groove for nice thick O-ring. The whole show swivels around like a giant (but trick) fuel banjo. This way I can bring it upto outlet of Paxton (once ally tube is tacked up) and connect with say 2" long bit of rubber hose (ol school hose clamps will be used :-) The grooved hat is spun to be parallel to rocker cover then acorn nut done up.

In writing all this I am starting to realise why this last 2% is taking so long?
Last edited by PhilOO on Fri Dec 25, 2009 11:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
cheers
Phil

\\\\\\ FALCON IS THE ANSWER \\\\\\

64 Australian built Ford XM Falcon Futura 2 door, 221 i6, Paxton SN60 Blower thru 350 Holley, 1800 stall, C4, 8"LSD

61 Australian built Chrysler S series Valiant, 225 slant 6, salt racer project car.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #11 by PhilOO » Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:32 am

wallaka wrote:The Paxton kit was written up in Hot Rod Magazine in the 60's. It was produced for our engines. MustangGeezer had a copy of the article on his webpage, if I remember correctly.


Hi Wallaka

Yes, when I found that post & saw the cover of HRM 1960 you guys can see where I made transition from Tripower to Paxton.

Here's a link to cover page only:

Image

Go read the article, you will find I probably quote the wrong power figures.

Now guys, look at the PAXTON engine on this cover.

Look at what it is blowing into?

Now don't I have one of those tri thingy jiggers somewhere?

I feel another project coming on :-)

But just gotta do the 2% first before starting another.
cheers
Phil

\\\\\\ FALCON IS THE ANSWER \\\\\\

64 Australian built Ford XM Falcon Futura 2 door, 221 i6, Paxton SN60 Blower thru 350 Holley, 1800 stall, C4, 8"LSD

61 Australian built Chrysler S series Valiant, 225 slant 6, salt racer project car.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #12 by duskpearl » Fri Apr 05, 2019 11:27 am

Here's my 65 Mustang 200 with a Paxton SN89 with main bracketing (original Falcon,as in Hot Rod), crank pulley, belt, air box (used), and air inlet screen, courtesy of Paradise Wheels in San Ramone, CA. Craig Conley is owner and a very helpful guy. Google Paradise wheels. [attachment=1]IMG_20171120_120507.jpg[/attachment]Mine is Classic Inlines intake and head, MSD Atomic fuel injection, and Duraspark dizzy. I orignally used an Autolite 2100 356 cfm 2 barrel but felt injection was the best arrangement. It is running but does not accelerate well. So, I plan on changing to Holley Sniper injection (4 port) since it allows detailed furel mapping as opposed to the Atomic. And, I'd like to be able to control timing but haven't found how. apparently, the Sniper can't control a Duraspark. Any suggestions on fuel injection or timing control are welcome.
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #13 by Mdixon300f100 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 12:09 pm

The msd 6al-2 programmable ignition control module is duraspark compatable (lockout of mechanical, vacuum advance necessary) and is fully tunable based on rpm and boost pressure with MAP sensor.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #14 by pmuller9 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 1:51 pm

duskpearl wrote: I'd like to be able to control timing but haven't found how. apparently, the Sniper can't control a Duraspark. Any suggestions on fuel injection or timing control are welcome.


That is correct. The Sniper does not put out a zero crossing signal used by the Duraspark box.

It does supply a square wave signal that is used to trigger an MSD ignition by way of the white wire.
Then you will have control of the ignition timing from the Sniper.

Just follow the instructions under TIMING CONTROLLED IGNITION SYSYEM WIRING in the online manual.
It will guide you thru the distributor lock out procedure as well as the wiring.

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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #15 by guhfluh » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:13 pm

pmuller9 wrote:
duskpearl wrote: I'd like to be able to control timing but haven't found how. apparently, the Sniper can't control a Duraspark. Any suggestions on fuel injection or timing control are welcome.


That is correct. The Sniper does not put out a zero crossing signal used by the Duraspark box.

It does supply a square wave signal that is used to trigger an MSD ignition by way of the white wire.
Then you will have control of the ignition timing from the Sniper.

Just follow the instructions under TIMING CONTROLLED IGNITION SYSYEM WIRING in the online manual.
It will guide you thru the distributor lock out procedure as well as the wiring.
The Duraspark distributors utilize a VR sensor, which can be used as an RPM input to the Sniper. The Sniper then can control either the included Sniper coil driver module(forgot their catchy name) or a MSD box to fire the coil.

The Duraspark box isn't used in that scenario and the distributor needs to be locked out, as mentioned, but the rotor also needs to be phased correctly for best result. Phasing may take some ingenuity, or it may come out well phased right out of the box, I'm not sure.
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Re: Bolt-on supercharger 200 six

Post #16 by duskpearl » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:18 pm

My thanks to all for the contributions. I'll attempt to use the Duraspark.

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